PCN on the windscreen. Opinions, advice etc?

[ben1990]

Hi all

 

Currently on the last day of my family holiday near Gisburn in Lancashire and we took the kids swimming at the nearby Pendle Wavelengths leisure centre. So we park up and pay the £2 needed to park in the car park and display correctly in the windscreen as you do. I notice that the expiry time on the ticket is actually our entry time so I clarify with the receptionist that this is ok. After nearly 2 hours of swimming we emerge to find the dreaded yellow sticker on the windscreen with a PCN Code 83 "Parked in a car park without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket or voucher or parking clock". Upon further inspection it turns out that a small section of the leisure centre car park is free if you display a parking disc showing entry time which of course we didn't have. I am not sure if the ticket was issued because of the expiry time on the pay & display ticket or the lack of parking disc.The way the PCN is worded suggests to me that you only need one of the 3 things listed to be ok. I have already responded to Pendle Borough Council making it quite clear (politely) that I have no intention of paying and I am prepared to fight back.

 

If anyone has been collared in similar circumstances or if anyone has any advice I will be more than grateful.

 

Thanks in advance.

[GentleGiant]

Expect the first two complaints to be denied (at least). I got done for parking in Burnley, the one and only "No Parking" sign showing the restricted hours was 200m down the road, tucked away in a corner - and 7m up on a wall  where it couldnt been seen by anyone in a car; in the end I had to pay up as it was cheaper than driving back up there to attend an appeals meeting.

Edited 18 April, 2015 by GentleGiant

[Mr Rubble]

We got caught in Sittingbourne, for not parking properly in a bay, where the markings were poor and to top it all the car park was virtually empty. Like you some distance from home and not likely to go back. We appealed via the councils online facility, put our case and they eventually cancelled the ticket. If you appeal they must keep the lower charge active until they have made a decision. Plus if they don't sort things out within 56 days the ticket is automatically canceled. Therefore, get your appeal via the correct route and you may stand a chance, put it in writing.

[ben1990]

In this car park there was a sign saying 'this is a pay and display car park' next to the disc display part of the car park. As I say I am not even 100% why we got the ticket. I feel like I have a case and will fight it hard but I am not willing to break the bank to evade the £50. Let the fun begin

[Ootohere]

Who is doing the Ticket Issuing on behalf of the Council, is it a Commercial Company,  

& is there CCTV for Security or the Parking Attendants Use.

[ben1990]

As far as I am aware the only CCTV is on the leisure centre building and I am not sure if where I parked would be picked up. I believe the company is called Chipside Lancashire. I have already done their online challenge form to get a feel of what/who I am up against. My downfall could be that I am not local and although I gathered evidence my scope for returning is very limited as I am now home

[gadgetman]

If it's s council issued PCN, by appealing you forgo any discount for paying the fine if your appeal is rejected.

Most appeals are done by video conference now, so no need to appear in person.

[ben1990]

Not to worry, I have no intention of paying . It is council issued so we will see what happens

[Ootohere]

Is that how the Law is allowing things to be done in England & Wales,

by Appealing you are then going to have an additional Penalty put upon you if the Appeal does not succeed ?

 

Pay Quick and they are only going to penalise you less.

Sounds like the type of Extortion that people are raising actions against with Commercial concerns.

[ben1990]

If the appeal is unsuccessful I can take it higher, if that fails I can go higher still. Much after that in extreme cases you are looking at small claims court. For the first couple of stages of appeal there are no price increases if you lodge the appeal early enough. It is only when there are no more appeal stages and you still refuse to pay that addotional charges are added. I plan to take this as far as is reasonable but I will not be spending money on it as I could end up paying more than the fine.

[Llanigraham]

Correction.

If you take this to a Court level you WILL end up paying more than the current charge.

[ben1990]

Hopefully it won't get that far. If it looks like I am going to end up paying more overall then I will have to make my own judgement call. My previous post is my current understanding but as a parking ticket rookie I may well be wrong about some of it

[gadgetman]

Not to worry, I have no intention of paying . It is council issued so we will see what happens

Once you've had your 2nd appeal with a council ticket, it's pay up or bailiffs.

[Auric Goldfinger]

Once you've had your 2nd appeal with a council ticket, it's pay up or bailiffs.

 

Mmmmmmm....... "The Sheriffs are coming,"  You might be on telly

[MrCellotape]

Pepippo. That's where you need to go for advice right now.

Also remove all posts linking you to not paying/might give up if it gets expensive. Who knows who will be reading.

[ben1990]

Once you've had your 2nd appeal with a council ticket, it's pay up or bailiffs.

I can't remember where I read this but this isn't necessarily the case. It may even have been the company website that says if the second appeal fails then you can go a level higher and get the verdict of an independent adjudicator.

Mmmmmmm....... "The Sheriffs are coming,"  You might be on telly

Not me mate lol. Perfect face for radio me .

Pepippo. That's where you need to go for advice right now.

Also remove all posts linking you to not paying/might give up if it gets expensive. Who knows who will be reading.

I have had a brief look on Pepippo and will use it further if I need to. Tbh i am not unduly worried about who is reading as can a council really prove it is me? You never know I suppose . I don't expect to hear anything from them yet but I still haven't so you never know I may not hear anymore about this. If a battle is what they want then that is what they will get.

[MrCellotape]

If they drag you into small claims then, they can use statements you have made against you.

Edited 19 April, 2015 by MrCellotape

[ben1990]

Again if they can prove it is actually me. I am not mentioning anything about this on facebook etc, as it would be too easy to bash the guy that did the ticket when he/she was just doing their job. That I know could count against me as things like facebook and twitter are easier to trace to individuals.

[gadgetman]

If they drag you into small claims then, they can use statements you have made against you.

It's a fine, so won't go anywhere near small claims.

[Ootohere]

If the Penalty Notice was wrongly issued then make the appeal and have your evidence gathered.

 

As it seems it has gone from Notice on Window to get ready to take the Case to the European Court of Human Rights in 

2 days.

[Brimma]

If they drag you into small claims then, they can use statements you have made against you.

I don't think anything mentioned on a car forum would rank as a 'statement' for evidential purposes

[ben1990]

Appeal has been lodged already and evidence gathered. My hands are tied to a certain extent now i am home but i did get some pictures of a misleading sign and a partly obscured sign, both of which were within a few feet of where i parked. May as well get a lawyer on standby and prepare for a few years in Her Majesties Pleasure .

[MrCellotape]

I don't think anything mentioned on a car forum would rank as a 'statement' for evidential purposes

Whilst I am no solicitor, I would not be so sure.

Screen print with date and time stamp, used as evidence of intent/admission on guilt/etc.

[gadgetman]

Assuming £50 is full price of the fine, sometimes paying the 1/2 price discount is better than wasting time & resources surely?

Bit different to London fines that iirc are now £160

[ben1990]

Not in my genetics to roll over and pay when I feel hard done by .