Fitting amp/sub has broken start/stop

[zombiefly]

Start Stop system error with the flashing coiled wire icon. 

in summary:

i had a sub fitted into the boot, the fitters took a direct feed from the battery. this had an adverse effect on the SS system, and after some good input here i discovered that this direct feed from battery thing is a big no-no. I disconnected it all and the SS error went away & the system worked fine. Plugged it all back again, same issue. 

 

I've spoken to the fitters who are going to rectify the mistake and take a feed from the back of the fusebox, from one of the accessory fuses. I've done extensive research into how this will happen and based on a number of people here installing things like the Focal Bus 20 under seat amp, then this seems to work without interfering with the SS system. this is due to happen on friday.

 

Today I powered the sub directly from the 12v boot feed and the SS error is back. I'm not fully understanding why? is it because the system is detecting drain from the supply in the boot? from previous posts above, this shouldn't happen as that feed is understood by the battery management. Basically i don't want anyone hacking around until i fully understand what's going to be done. I'm completely lost because of this 12v feed issue, i'd expected using that would NOT cause the error.

 

arrrrgh

Edited 13 May, 2015 by zombiefly

[Orville]

May be worth replacing the amp in case there is a dodgy component, cable or earth causing load spikes.

If you were drawing too much current from the 12V socket I would imagine the fuse would blow before causing start-stop errors.

[zombiefly]

well i've learned so much over the past days.

my car has this MQB management system. it seems this is the cause of all evils

 

so. final question until the next phase of this debacle. Which fuse shall i use for 12v perm supply, which will continue to feed during a start/stop cycle? the sub has a 20A fuse in it, so that limits options somewhat. 

[andyvee]

With all this messing about, what is the charge state of your battery now?

 

The only reason I can think that the S/S comes up with an error again when you connect to the accessory socket is that there is a problem with the sub itself.

 

If you look at the fuse box under the bonnet you can wire up to a live there, don't use the fusebox behind the glovebox for something rated at 20A if you can avoid it. There is a row of 6 terminals at the front of the fuse box, you could always take a feed from one of them

[zombiefly]

great thanks andy... battery seems ok, i do 40+ miles a day so it should have charged properly.

i was a bit dubious about having them hack around behind the dash fusebox. I'm also unsure where they've run the earth wire. if that's connected to the battery then that could be causing issue too.

 

it could also have something to do with how they've wired the remote on wire in... as i remember this had to be jacked onto the +ve at the back of the head unit. maybe that's upsetting things? wonder where else i can take that from... it used to be the remote/electric aerial wire but that's a thing of the past now.

 

what's really annoying is it's all working from the 12v boot socket. if only the SS system error would go away..

 

i've always done this stuff myself. I loathe being at the mercy of these people. i've done more research and probably know more than they do. now i'm half installed so i can either walk away and get someone else to sort it or try and guide them through my findings. they won't like that though

 

my backup plan is to get one of the focal under seat units as they seem to plug directly into the back of the HU with an adapter and don't require any messing with wires. that would probably have been my chosen path if i'd known what i know now...

Edited 13 May, 2015 by zombiefly

[Miz]

Start Stop system error with the flashing coiled wire icon. 

in summary:

i had a sub fitted into the boot, the fitters took a direct feed from the battery. this had an adverse effect on the SS system, and after some good input here i discovered that this direct feed from battery thing is a big no-no. I disconnected it all and the SS error went away & the system worked fine. Plugged it all back again, same issue. 

 

I've spoken to the fitters who are going to rectify the mistake and take a feed from the back of the fusebox, from one of the accessory fuses. I've done extensive research into how this will happen and based on a number of people here installing things like the Focal Bus 20 under seat amp, then this seems to work without interfering with the SS system. this is due to happen on friday.

 

Today I powered the sub directly from the 12v boot feed and the SS error is back. I'm not fully understanding why? is it because the system is detecting drain from the supply in the boot? from previous posts above, this shouldn't happen as that feed is understood by the battery management. Basically i don't want anyone hacking around until i fully understand what's going to be done. I'm completely lost because of this 12v feed issue, i'd expected using that would NOT cause the error.

 

arrrrgh

Hi,

 

What does the "coiled wire" icon look like?

 

Only one I can think of is the glow plug light..

[zombiefly]

Hi,

 

What does the "coiled wire" icon look like?

 

Only one I can think of is the glow plug light..

 

it is that yes

[Gerrycan]

Bearing in mind that I have no automotive electrical experience whatsoever, BUT..

You have not stated what the current draw of your bass unit is but is possibly more than OEM (Cantons are relatively modest/efficient)installed equipment.

Modern cars generally have the smallest battery fitted they can get away with (cost and weight) and when you stop there is potentially a lot of drain from standard ancillary equipment, DRLs or headlights, ventilation fan, stop lights, radio/display, cameras, car seat or window heaters,etc (ignoring A/C).

Seems reasonable to me that your bass unit is the tipping point to the controlling ECU to not activate stop/start, even, or especially when, plugged in the 12V socket.

If I were programming the stop/start logic I would be pretty conservative since people get upset about not being able to restart at traffic lights.

Feel free to classify the above as BS and ignore.

Edited 14 May, 2015 by Gerrycan

[zombiefly]

you could be onto something Gerry... i've done a lot of reading this week and i now know a lot more than i did  

 

the sub amp is pretty small in size and it has a 20A fuse in it. i don't think it's particularly heavy on the juice, but i really have no idea.

 

If i cant get anywhere tomorrow, i'll probably go down the route of an under seat sub which has all the connectivity etc from the back of the HU and needs no additional power. There is a focal unit that others here have installed so i'm checking reviews on that. It's possibly the best option and i may be able to fit it myself.

 

today i've driven to work with sub etc disconnected, stop start is working, no flashing lights. car still ok

[themanwithnoaim]

zombiefly, I kinda feel your over thinking/worrying this one, give it back to the sub amp installers on Saturday and give them the oppotunity to impress you with their amazing customer service, you never REALLY know how good a firm can be until they **** up only then, can a really good firm show you just how important customers are to them in the way they put things right.

 

Getting things right first time is impressive but, putting things right beyond the customers expectations when the've gone wrong is a very big thing and difficult to do but, I'd recommend a firm that can do that without hesitation because you KNOW how good they can be.  The worst that can happen is you having to do just what you're already considering doing yourself next week but, you'll have more infomation and more of a case to not only get your money back but some recompense as well, walk away at this point and you haven't given them the opprotunity to correct their error and hence, no case for recompense.

[Miz]

it is that yes

 

That light has nothing to do with stop/start and indicates a fault with the engine control system, it would be interesting to know the make and model of the sub, so we can check to see what load it is placing on the electrical system, although that must be below 20A, but if that is combined with other loads, then it could all be too much....

[zombiefly]

That light has nothing to do with stop/start and indicates a fault with the engine control system, it would be interesting to know the make and model of the sub, so we can check to see what load it is placing on the electrical system, although that must be below 20A, but if that is combined with other loads, then it could all be too much....

 

yeah, this is my understanding

 

its an FLI 10inch sub. i am going to see the installation guys tomorrow to discuss this. the previous car [06 vrs] had no problem with this sub, but this is a different beast with a new ECU, different battery etc...

 

 i stole this off the internet but this is the model

 

I'm thinking of replacing the sub altogether with the Focal ibus 20 thing, it'd fit neatly in the side of the boot and won't need anything other than the 12v feed/Speakers from the rear of the HU [which i now have as a result of this failed installation]

Edited 14 May, 2015 by zombiefly

[zombiefly]

scrapped this whole thing now.

 

conclusion: i have no idea what's going on. for some reason this car doesn't like the sub being plugged in, it worked perfectly for years and was disconnected on the day of exchange. Maybe it's just drawing too much power. Nobody has any idea.

 

i have the ibus 20 arriving tomorrow, hopefully this will just plug in and work. I've scoured the internet and can't find any reports of similar issues with this unit.

[Miz]

I would have thought that any reputable installer would be able to check the current draw on the kit they have installed, also be able to check if the charging system is capable of powering it.

[zombiefly]

yeah. me too.

all i know is that what i've just unwired from my car  [the small low level conversion box and the sub] was wired in the strangest of ways. It made no sense. I thought the instructions for the box were simple, tap into the speaker wires and 12v+ from the back of the HU and out of it comes low level RCA out + remote for amp. Instead, there was some weird BI-wiring going on with the sub/converter box. I'm pretty convinced that this was wrong. maybe this was causing the problem all along?

 

as a result i'm reluctant to take it back there. The new focal unit is "plug and play" so i'm going to do it myself. The 2 things i need to know are:

 

1. Am i right in thinking that the ISO connectors for the Head unit are behind the cd/sd card box in the glove box? How do i access that? i'm struggling to find a guide as so far everything i've read/watched are for older model HU removal from the centre of the dash, which i've done in previous models but not in the mkIII octy. i'm struggling to find any instructions about this unit in the glove box.

 

2. Trim removal [sills] I need to run this cable to the boot from the HU without breaking anything

 

If anyone can help me with the above i'd be very grateful

Edited 18 May, 2015 by zombiefly

[zombiefly]

AND WE HAVE A FIX!

 

i took it all to bits, rewired it all and plugged in the focal. drove around... 5 minutes the problem is back. that leaves one thing. the stupid low level converter. took this out and used the low level in on the focal. drove around for 20 mins, no problem at all

 

further testing tomorrow. but it looks like i've just spent £200 to debug the problem. now i will get a decent quality converter and try my old sub again, if that checks out then looks like i have a focal ibus 20 for sale :|

 

thanks for all the input here, it's helped me get to the bottom of this

[fabdavrav]

AND WE HAVE A FIX!

 

i took it all to bits, rewired it all and plugged in the focal. drove around... 5 minutes the problem is back. that leaves one thing. the stupid low level converter. took this out and used the low level in on the focal. drove around for 20 mins, no problem at all

 

further testing tomorrow. but it looks like i've just spent £200 to debug the problem. now i will get a decent quality converter and try my old sub again, if that checks out then looks like i have a focal ibus 20 for sale :|

 

thanks for all the input here, it's helped me get to the bottom of this

 

& a nice bill to the original idiots who wired it up I hope?..................

 

Did that on my first car got so called pro's to wire a set of front fogs as per factory...............thing is they didn't work with side lights (can't as not factory was their reply), so ripped it all out & got rid of half their stupid wiring & got it working as per factory, Went back dumped the extra wiring on their counter & said I wanted a refund on their labour charge, they couldn't believe what I said, so showed them the car............  .

 

Got my refund............... :sun:

[neiln]

Yay! Good news.

[zombiefly]

haha. i'm back to reawaken this topic

 

i decided yesterday to have a look into this again as i had a spare few hours and the weather was nice.

 

it was then that i discovered that the remote wire that was fitted by these idiots was connected to the brake pedal circuit. i hadn't noticed this previously as i always had my foot on the pedal while testing [it's automatic DSG]

 

as to why i hadn't noticed this before? i have no idea. the focal amp i have was set so low i couldn't detect a difference in sound. So i've been driving around with stock stereo for 6 months hahaha. what a ****.

 

 

so now.. i need to move the remote wire which they apparently attached to the back of the stereo unit in the glove box. I'll be digging into that later to see what i can find. Hopefully someone on here has posted the wiring diagram already [i'm about to search]

[db89]

I am looking at fitting the VW plug&play sound system. It's a helix amp and subwoofer and cost only about 400€.

[zombiefly]

I am looking at fitting the VW plug&play sound system. It's a helix amp and subwoofer and cost only about 400€.

 

i've seen some good reports on those.

 

now that i have my original sub back in the mix [albeit with no remote on, which i'm working on] the sound quality is superb. I'm a piggyback fuse and length of wire away from bass nirvana

[Antuk]

Can I please ask where you had it done? I've fitted an amp and have the worst interference ever. I have fitted amps to virtually every car I have owned for the past 20 years. Never before experienced anything like this and my local audio guy is stumped. Need to find out how and where they wired it all up and if they used any suppressor etc. Thanks in advance