An Expensive Design Flaw On Skodas

[paully]

AFAIK its the A/C condenser but I`ll have to wait until the full workshop inspection to ascertain exactly what has been damaged and indeed if there is damage to anything else..The AA did put a patch on it when they attended.

[Breezy_Pete]

Does the aircon currently work?

 

I'm gonna have a close look at my Polo later today, while fitting the mesh to the lower grille, but it occurred to me sometime in the last 24 hours that there are probably ways for a stone to go through the aircon condenser without actually damaging the refrigerant pipes.  If your A/C is still working, it might be that your condenser has only suffered cosmetic damage, but having passed through it, the stone has punctured your coolant radiator immediately behind it, causing the low-coolant warning and steam observed.  In this case, replacing the condenser would seem to (me to) be unnecessary/wasteful. 

 

Can you take a photo of the damage?

 

 

For what it's worth, one tenner's-worth of the mesh Phil-E kindly linked us to is ample for two cars. Fabia is relatively easy, bonnet-open and you have enough access. Polo is a bumper off job, but that's not hard.

Here's a pic of the inside of the Polo bumper, mesh tyrapped in position:

 

 

 

Here's a close-up of the aircon condenser structure:

 

 

The thin horizontal flattened pipes are what carries the refrigerant; the vertical wavy super-thin bits are the air fins, damage to which will have little effect. 

Provided that the projectile will fit through the gaps between the refrigerant tubes (e.g. a nail, end-on), there's actually a pretty good chance of not damaging the condenser catastrophically. Fingers crossed for the OP.

[paully]

Thanks for that Wino, appreciated..On initial inspection the water was coming out of the condensor. However its going into the dealers week after next to be closely looked at on behalf of Skoda, so we`ll see what happens then. I`ll keep you all posted..

[Breezy_Pete]

Have you tried the aircon since this incident though? Does it still work? Can you not see anything of the damage/repair through the lower grille?

 

My understanding is that the aircon condenser doesn't have any water going through it, only refrigerant. Now I guess that might generate something that looks like steam as it emerges from a hole (I doubt it slightly though), but it wouldn't cause the engine coolant level to change. :S

Hence my confusion about how the AA man could have repaired it at the roadside, and fixed your low-coolant problem by so doing; unless what he really patched was a hole in your coolant radiator.

[paully]

The air con works fine and I can see the repair through the grille which stopped it losing coolant....As I say it will be a couple of weeks until the dealer has a good look at it and we`ll all know more then

[Breezy_Pete]

Photo?

 

You have a lot more trust in the motor industry than I do.

 

I find it almost impossible to believe that the AA would repair an aircon condenser and refill it at the roadside (non-working aircon hardly being a major impediment to your onward journey). Engine coolant didn't leak out of your aircon condenser, because it isn't connected to the engine coolant system.

 

And with that, I'm out (you'll perhaps be glad to hear ).

[malcster]

I don't think the aa carry round air con gas and would instead ensure the car is safe and send you to a garage to get air con fixed and re gassed

[paully]

Right the car has finally been examined by DM Keith at Wakefield, who I have to say have been excellent, and it turns out the funny looking thing that got busted is called a ...`secondary radiator`....Yes I know I didn`t know such a thing existed but apparantly they do..Didn`t make any difference to the eye watering price to fix it though...yes same price as the air con whatsitsname....top side of 500 dineros     

 

    DMK have closely examined the car, taken photos and are submitting a goodwill claim to Skoda tomorrow...They are quietly confident that SUK will make a decent contribution..I do hope they are right..Anyways many thanks go to Chris Rushforth the service manager there for his great help. I`ll let you know next week re their reply

[Breezy_Pete]

Glad to hear you're getting good service from the dealer.

 

"Secondary radiator" is a new one on me too, as you can probably imagine.  Out of interest what year and engine-code is your car?

 

Edit: Googling brings up a possibility that I wasn't aware of.  A charge air cooler that has engine coolant connections (for reasons that I clearly need educating about).

Item 8 on this page. Complex system, by the looks of that diagram. Items 3 and item 8 seem to act together as a charge air cooling system with water as the transfer fluid between the two. Air-to-water-to-air.

Something like item 36 here http://www.partscats.info/volkswagen/en/?i=cat_vag_models&brand=sk&number=117&set=125&ein=2013&f=699&hauptgr=1234567890&hg=1&grf=012181672&bf=12165&hgug=121&ug=21&parent_id=267403

 

Gotta say, it looks like a £50-100 part not £500, but maybe you have to take the engine out to change it!

[paully]

I agree its very complicated looking and rather the dealer than me.......they did say the main cost was labour rather than the parts..apparantly there is a lot to do to get to the damn thing and then rebuild thereafter...might even be engine out  ...must say dealer help has been outstanding...makes you feel valued....will certainly keep you posted...cheers

[fabdavrav]

Common problem on most cars, bmw, VAG, etc................

 

I fiited a 6mm stainless steel mesh & edged with auto rubber seals & dropped into & behind the bumper...............nice & solid.

 

VAG do plastic protector bumper grills for the horizontal bars on the condensors...........but only for certain models.........

[paully]

Got the final answer on this one via DM Keith and its better than I had feared..Both SUK and the dealer are putting money into the deal,the labour cost is being done at trade price leaving me with an amount to pay that will be less than it would cost to fit a spurious part via an independent....Roomster now booked in for 2 days so as to do the second year service at the same time...Big thanks to DMK and Chris Rushforth, the service manager.. Certainly have been provided with some good old-fashioned service..May becheaper getting services outside the network butthey are less likely to help if you do...so yes good result

[Immelmann]

Good news Paully.

[brad1.8T]

So many cars have open grills & radiators / AC condensors / Intercoolers vulnerable that it's hardly a design fault.

 

I fitted some plastic "gutter guard" behind my grille.

 

This stuff

 

[paully]

In that case maybe it's time for a re think on design by the makers eh.....but trust me when you are faced with a situation like this and a bill for top side of 500 quid I think you might have a slightly different view on their design..thanks for the wire idea though mine is certainly having something similar fitted for the future

[jonro2009]

This stuff

Would that be any better than having nothing behind the grill? The holes look pretty large, although that could just be the camera.

I remember my pals 307 had an open style grill like that with a black radiator behind and he had so many stone chips it looked silver in a matter of weeks. Iirc Peugeot actually redesigned the grill and his was replaced FOC, this was a few years back mind.

I am wanting to do the same thing using some mesh like in the posts above but I'm struggling to see how I get to the back of the grill, I can't seem to see anywhere from the top and the undertray is in the way below. Any tips or suggestions?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Jigger72]

So many cars have open grills & radiators / AC condensors / Intercoolers vulnerable that it's hardly a design fault.

 

I fitted some plastic "gutter guard" behind my grille.

 

This stuff

 

 

That wouldn't stop a wallaby, never mind stones flying up from the road...

[Breezy_Pete]

The stuff Phil linked to earlier in the thread has a hole size of around 4mm, from memory. Anything small enough to get through that probably isn't going to do much damage unless you're going at an very enthusiastic pace.  Impossible to tell from that photo up there ^ how big those gaps are, without anything in shot for scale.

[brad1.8T]

Would that be any better than having nothing behind the grill? The holes look pretty large, although that could just be the camera.

I am wanting to do the same thing using some mesh like in the posts above but I'm struggling to see how I get to the back of the grill, I can't seem to see anywhere from the top and the undertray is in the way below. Any tips or suggestions?

 

 

That wouldn't stop a wallaby, never mind stones flying up from the road...

 

It's just a stock photo I found.  The stuff I used is 5mm but only because I had a roll sitting on the shelf.  If I hadn't used that I would have used some 10mm bird wire I had leftover from another project.

 

I think simply getting a square matrix behind the lower grille bars reduces the level of risk quite significantly.  Even if a rock is small enough to fit through the holes it will probably hit the mesh & slow down a bit. 

 

I've had it fitted for about 50,000km (2 years).  Maybe it's useless but it makes me feel like I made an effort to reduce the chance of damage.

 

On the Octavia Elegance, you pull the blanking plates out on the side of the lower grille (tow hook cover on the RHS & it's useless running mate on the LHS).  Behind that is a couple of fasteners that hold in the centre section.  Remove the centre section & use cable ties to hold the mesh in behind.  I didn't even bother trimming it to fit.

 

edit: Sorry, forgot I was in the Roomster area.  I assume it's similar as these cars all fit together the same.

 

Looks like this

 

Edited 30 June, 2015 by brad1.8T

[paully]

The Grand Finale :clap: .............

 

  Car has just been returned from DM Keith at Wakefield where the damaged radiator/cooler/whatever has been replaced. Not only that but they have fitted a 6mm mesh right across the front of it. I can`t actually see what its fitted to on either side but it looks a substantial fitting and will certainly deflect or slow down any other damn unguided missile hell bent on relieving me of mucho dinero...They also serviced it and at the same time changed the keyfob so all doors now open on first click..Whoo Hoo  :sun: Mrs P delighted, she has lost count of the times she has stood outside the car, in the pouring rain, waiting for me to get her door open 

 

  So big thanks to Chris Rushforth at DMK lots of help and assistance and made me feel like my custom was valued..Many Thanks Chris  :clap:

[Immelmann]

Good news, nice to hear about the customer service. The branch that I use are hopeless.

I bought some black mesh too but for the life in me I can't see how to fit it behind the bumper.

[paully]

We`ll have to meet next week and you can have a look at mine...I`ll contact the Service manager at Wakefield and ask him for the low down..sent you a PM..Cheers

[RichardatWakefield]

Where abouts in Yorkshire are you, Immelman? You're welcome to inspect my Roomy's mesh installation, I bought the black aluminium mesh linked to earlier, my local garage-man fitted it in about half-an-hour. If I recall, the upper grill was attached via two torx screws, there's also two plastic pop-out panels to lift out, the grill simply tilts forwards, we reached behind it to take measurements using a flexible steel tape-measure, then cut a rectangle that did all of the lower grill aperture, and some of the upper, and attached using black cable-ties. We did not try to make or fit anything to the intercooler's small air inlet at the lower offside. The nearside aperture on mine is blanked off. It's a neat installation! I'm at Stanley near M62 jn 30.

Richard.