Hello all,

First of all, I should introduce myself. I'm a first time Skoda owner (normally buy Fords), having gone (on behalf of the mrs) for a Fabia 2 Estate (14 plate) simply due to the whopping size of the boot and favourable reviews. The car has done 10k and is about 18 months old so still has a reasonable manufacturer warranty left.

 

In general, I'm quite pleased with the car as it's roomy, easy to drive, gives good MPG and has great visibility. I have noticed a couple of items, though:

 

1. An engine noise on start up which I've only noticed when the engine was maybe still warm (driven for a while then left for about an hour). It sounded like tappet rattle and was there for a couple of seconds so I'm guessing that this is due to oil reaching something hydraulic...or ?

 

2. The brakes are quite noisy at low speeds. i.e. lightly braking to a stop, there is a noticable drone from the front wheels.

 

Are these quite normal ?

Thanks!

Hello all,

First of all, I should introduce myself. I'm a first time Skoda owner (normally buy Fords), having gone (on behalf of the mrs) for a Fabia 2 Estate (14 plate) simply due to the whopping size of the boot and favourable reviews. The car has done 10k and is about 18 months old so still has a reasonable manufacturer warranty left.

In general, I'm quite pleased with the car as it's roomy, easy to drive, gives good MPG and has great visibility. I have noticed a couple of items, though:

1. An engine noise on start up which I've only noticed when the engine was maybe still warm (driven for a while then left for about an hour). It sounded like tappet rattle and was there for a couple of seconds so I'm guessing that this is due to oil reaching something hydraulic...or ?

2. The brakes are quite noisy at low speeds. i.e. lightly braking to a stop, there is a noticable drone from the front wheels.

Are these quite normal ?

Thanks!

Welcome!

1 might be tappets. It wouldnt be the first time people have mentioned similat, but i dont know the ins and outs

2. Depends how noisey. Sometimes theyre noisey if its been parked, as the discs obv have abit of surface rust

Hi,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I thought it might be tappets and I've heard this on other engines and I know they're hydraulic on the TSI - just wondered how noisy they should be at 10k!

 

The car may have been standing for a while prior to my buying it but I've done a few hundred miles in it and I'd say they weren't getting any quieter (or louder).

 

You know what it's like when you run cars...you get used to things on a certain make / type and then you buy something new and you start thinking....

engine noise (rattling is what they call it ) is normal on start up ,mine does  it too but if does not go away after afew minutes it or when engine gets warm then you might have a common  chain cam problem that is a common problem with many tsi engines ,have search here and you will find many topics about it,here and on Google generally there a life guarante on them if you preserved your dealer service ,so take it to your dealer and get it checked out. 

Brakes should never be noisy except if you have not driven the car for a while,eg when i go on Holidays for 2 weeks and have not used the car for that time ,the brakes are squeky which goes away after a good old drive ,hope i helped abit

Edited 8 August, 201510 yr by john123

The rattle on start up is the oil pump chain it lasts 2 or 3 seconds until the oil pump has primed. Anything longer than that you can bet your bottom dollar there's something worn.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

The rattle on start up is the oil pump chain it lasts 2 or 3 seconds until the oil pump has primed. Anything longer than that you can bet your bottom dollar there's something worn.

 

Thanks for this - mine (now at 10k, 64 plate) does the same thing at start up, and after being told by a Skoda dealership 'they all do that' with no other information at least now I know what's causing it.

 

 

 

2. The brakes are quite noisy at low speeds. i.e. lightly braking to a stop, there is a noticable drone from the front wheels.

 

Can you describe the noise any more?  Do you feel any vibration through the steering wheel?  I have whining from the rear drums but that goes away after I've driven a few miles.  Will be raising under warranty as I'm concerned that rain water is getting in there.

The rattle on start up is the oil pump chain it lasts 2 or 3 seconds until the oil pump has primed. Anything longer than that you can bet your bottom dollar there's something worn.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Can you tell me the source of that information as I am unaware of any oil pump problems with the 1.2 Tsi.

Thanks

Never said that there is an oil pump problem.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Thanks for the replies everyone.

 

I started the car up cold and warm (several times) today and didn't notice the sound so I'll keep an eye on it.

 

As to the brakes, I would say that they've got quieter but it's done nearly 400 miles since we had it. The noise is hard to describe but just sounds like the a "boomy scrapy" sound. I've noticed quite a bit of brake pad dust on the alloys which is maybe unusual given that it's been driven like a grandad...The brake discs look and feel OK but I've not had the wheels off. I might drop into the dealer with it the end of next week to see what they say.

 

I'd read a few things about timing chains and TSI engines prior to buying this car but I was under the impression that most of these problems had been sorted out (by sorted, I mean "not eradicated" but reduced to a very low level) around 2011 so a '14 plate would be relatively safe. Is that a fair assumption?

 

Just to get this straight, then...it'll be service with Skoda for the remainder of the warranty period. After that, is it OK to use the long service interval oil (507) but change every 12 months (the car will only be doing 7000 miles tops a year) or doesn't it matter that much? I'm wary of keeping the turbo happy since this is the first car I've owned that has one.

 

Thanks again.

First of all i would say -YOUR SAFETY FIRST ALL- .......never drive a car making a  "boomy scrapy" sound check it out you never know what underlies behind it , BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY ,sorry to sound harsh .

use the long service interval oil (507) but change every 12 months (the car will only be doing 7000 miles tops a year) or doesn't it matter that much? I'm wary of keeping the turbo happy since this is the first car I've owned that has one.

 

The turbo has nothing to do directly with you oil ,if you want to keep your turbo happy it wouldnt hurt to change your OEM air filter annualy

 

In regards to the oil you will not gain anything in changing the 507 oil other than waisting your Money the 507 long term oil is made for that purpose either way your maxidot will tell you when you need the change(long term service ) according to your driving style and Cold/warm start.

You could always ask the dealer to change your service to a fixed annual service if it makes you feel better and dont mind wasting the Money.

Generally the TSI car are genious, just drive them good that all they need and follow the service book in regards to most part changes

1. An engine noise on start up which I've only noticed when the engine was maybe still warm (driven for a while then left for about an hour). It sounded like tappet rattle and was there for a couple of seconds so I'm guessing that this is due to oil reaching something hydraulic...or ?

Have noticed this with mine when starting from cold. I have noticed that if I turn the ignition on and wait for the fuel pump to prime (buzzing sound for a few seconds) then start the engine it seems to help. No idea why this would make any difference but it seems to work for mine.

Do the Fuel Pumps of the 1.2 TSI Fabia not prime when you unlock / open the drivers door and before you put the key in the Ignition?

I know ALL about this issue with 1.2tsi engines.

To sum up a very very long story, if the engine was manufactured BEFORE AROUND JULY 2011 you can ask your dealer to check the length of the camchain in accordance with the latest factory issued tpi. Early tsis were fitted with chains from a dodgy supplier that wore/stretched prematurely. The dealer will measure the position of the tensioner to determine chain length and if its too long then skoda will change it.

AFTER JUNE 2011, a revised chain design and a new chain guard was fitted that fixed this.

However, its still possible to get chain rattle on start up BECAUSE the oil filter housing is fitted with a "drain valve" thats designed to open when the oil filter is unscrewed, to drain oil back to sump and stop it peeing over your hands and the block. This valve doesnt always close fully or cleanly and so when the engine is stood a fair while its possible for the oil in the filter to slowly drain back, the chain tensioner releases, and when you start the engine you get the same rattle as if you had just changed the filter as the engine oilways/tensioner need to fill up and pressurise.

Yes, they all do that, later ones are a bit better. Apparently you can check this valve with the filter off, (it may be just a rubber flap). I notice it is less of an issue with 5/40 oil than 5/30 and also on the angle of the engine when parked.

The disc brakes are noisy on the tsi at low speed, because the engine is quiet and there not much sound insulation around the front suspension of a fabia. At higher speeds the roar of the tyres mask the noise.

Edited 11 August, 201510 yr by xman

Here is my 2 pence worth on the cam chain issue.

 

The 1.4TSI chains certainly suffered from manufacturing issues caused by a VAG sub-contractor using a die stamping machine which was outside of acceptable engineering tolerances. But the cam chain issue on the 1.2TSI is not caused by this (according to VAG). It is probably a (not admitted) design fault and, like all TSI cam chain problems on engines of varying sizes, may be worsened by issues connected the oil grade/quality.

 

VAG have openly admitted (most) of this and I’m surprised that it has not been more widely reported in the UK. I refer you to the article from the German magazine Autobild.  The article is at (non German speakers will have to fire up Google Translate): 

 

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/vw-tsi-motorschaeden-3393757.html#

 

Note from the article the extended “goodwill” scheme offered in Germany which appears better than that offered in the UK. In my case I got 70% labour at 5 years on my wife’s 1.2TSI which I was prepared to accept.

 

My understanding is that the modified 1.2TSI cam chain cover noted in the article (and referred to by others in this thread) is no longer retro fitted due to later chain redesigns making this unnecessary.

 

The cam chain/crankshaft and camshaft sprockets have undergone several significant design revisions since 2010. This was due to (according to an Italian Audi owners forum) some 1.2TSI chains stretching again even after they had been replaced.

 

Attached is a photo of the latest chain (on the extreme right of the picture). As can be seen, it is of significantly different design from previous, hence the need to replace the camshaft and crankshaft sprockets when installing the latest repair kit.

 

For the reference of other owners, the latest repair kit (as of July 2015) comprising chain, both sprockets, tensioner and guides is part number  03F198158B.

Sorry....picture did not upload first time.

I know ALL about this issue with 1.2tsi engines.

To sum up a very very long story, if the engine was manufactured BEFORE AROUND JULY 2011 you can ask your dealer to check the length of the camchain in accordance with the latest factory issued tpi. Early tsis were fitted with chains from a dodgy supplier that wore/stretched prematurely. The dealer will measure the position of the tensioner to determine chain length and if its too long then skoda will change it.

AFTER JUNE 2011, a revised chain design and a new chain guard was fitted that fixed this.

However, its still possible to get chain rattle on start up BECAUSE the oil filter housing is fitted with a "drain valve" thats designed to open when the oil filter is unscrewed, to drain oil back to sump and stop it peeing over your hands and the block. This valve doesnt always close fully or cleanly and so when the engine is stood a fair while its possible for the oil in the filter to slowly drain back, the chain tensioner releases, and when you start the engine you get the same rattle as if you had just changed the filter as the engine oilways/tensioner need to fill up and pressurise.

Yes, they all do that, later ones are a bit better. Apparently you can check this valve with the filter off, (it may be just a rubber flap). I notice it is less of an issue with 5/40 oil than 5/30 and also on the angle of the engine when parked.

The disc brakes are noisy on the tsi at low speed, because the engine is quiet and there not much sound insulation around the front suspension of a fabia. At higher speeds the roar of the tyres mask the noise.

 

Thanks all for your info, especially the useful response above.

 

I had noticed the engine is very quiet at tickover (a few times, I thought it had cut out); the brakes have been fine on a trip to Wales and back and they haven't got any quieter (or louder). They're as you say - just a little noisy at low speed.

 

I'm happy to hear that the problem appears to have been rectified post 2011 as I didn't want to have to worry about this. Just out of interest, does the chain need replacing at any particular mileage or is it there for the life of the engine, effectively?

 

In addition to that, are there any other nuances about this engine (e.g. turbo failures at n 1000 miles) or car in general ? For example, the Mrs had a Ka before this and there were a few items to keep an eye on with that (suspension bushes on the front lasting 3 years at most, brake pads to be replaced every 20,000 otherwise discs required), plugs could weld themselves into the head so needed checking regularly.......that sort of thing.

 

Interesting to know about the oil intervals - 18,500 seems like a long time to me, especially given that this is unlikely to be doing more than 7-8k a year so the oil could be in a long time (I normally get nervous leaving oil in for more than 12 months). Without a maxidot (it's an SE so it had a standard LCD), do you still get notification about oil changes being required relative to engine duty cycle?

 

For info, the 1st owner did have it on the extended interval but we changed it to every 12 months. This has sort of been answered but is the consensus that we would we have been better to leave it on extended even for the amount of miles it will do?

Edited 15 August, 201510 yr by briscaF1

Camchain is normally a lifetime item not requiring replacement.

You can access the "how long to next service" info by pressing the left hand dash button marked with a graphic of three overlapping pages. First two presses flash the hr/min setting, third press shows the mileage/no of days to next service. Eventually the service spanner will indicate when a service due is imminent.

Variable servicing is intended more for high milege drivers that do at least 25 miles a day, long trips at low engine loads, however the oil quality sensor does a good job and along with the ecu monitoring of driving pattern, engine temperatures etc, will dial back the interval if necessary.

To put it back on extended intervals requires either the dealer or full vcds to do it. You will also need to change the oil for vw504/507 spec, which the sensor can detect (from personal experience).

I thought that all VAG oils were longlife oils to avoid confusion. I have left my Audi S4 on variable servicing but always change the filter and oil in between services as the car runs out of time before miles.

Fords, yes, good and cheap, but cost a bit all the time, these first generation Ka's were shocking drove like a proper big car (good) had the rust prevention of a '70's Ford (bad) and yes, these TCA bushes - at one time Ford dealers were meant to paint a marking blob on the TCA so that the complete arm was replaced at the next bush failure - only one bush change advised by Ford.

 

Oh, and I agree with you about turbos and oil, dirty old oil = reduced turbo life I'd reckon.

Edited 17 August, 201510 yr by rum4mo

I thought that all VAG oils were longlife oils to avoid confusion. I have left my Audi S4 on variable servicing but always change the filter and oil in between services as the car runs out of time before miles.

 

Unfortunately if the skoda dealer does a standard fixed interval service, they will use a cheaper 502 spec oil, usually quantum platinum, to save themselves a fiver.

Fords, yes, good and cheap, but cost a bit all the time, these first generation Ka's were shocking drove like a proper big car (good) had the rust prevention of a '70's Ford (bad) and yes, these TCA bushes - at one time Ford dealers were meant to paint a marking blob on the TCA so that the complete arm was replaced at the next bush failure - only one bush change advised by Ford.

 

To be fair, we've had four Ka's between us (myself and the mrs) since 2002, each purchased for £4995 brand new (dealer was trying to achieve sales numbers) with the last one traded in against the Fabia, at 8 years old, for a grand. I always replaced the entire TCA as non-OEM were only 23 quid each and lasted about as long. In the 8 years, the Ka had two brembo brake discs (11 quid each), pads, tyres, a set of plugs (12 quid), a rear spring (£19), four TCAs (23 quid each) and oil and filter changes. I reckon that's about 130 quid of stuff on top of a 4 grand loss in 8 years, on a brand new car, ignoring usual car consumables.

 

The Ka drove very well for a small car and I could keep up with cars with a lot more prestige through twisty lanes in it without too much bother. I doubt very much whether we'll see inexpensive motoring like we had with those cars from anything we own now or in the future! I just hope the Fab is as cheap and reliable.

Edited 18 August, 201510 yr by briscaF1

Hi There, new skoda owner here I purchases a used fabia II 1.2 TSI 85 (registered December 2012) from a skoda dealer but am I bit worried about all the stuff I am reading about the cam chain issues. 

 

I can see there it was with 2010-11 engines but when I start there is a rattle - which goes after about 5 seconds. 

 

The dealer did its first MOT and I bought the service plan with the car - should I be worried?