I bought a new Scout (DSG, DPF 184 PS) in January 2015. While I was up to speed on the CO2 emissions I had not paid attention to the issues associated with NOx. Since the VW scandal broke this week I’ve been looking into my Scout's NOx levels.

The first thing that puzzled me is that the brochure (which I was given when I was considering buying the car, and which I had kept) makes no mention of NOx at all. Emissions are specified only for CO2.  I’m not sure what to make of that.  And I can see nothing to indicate which emissions standard (Euro 5 or Euro 6) this model is compliant with.

A value for the measured NOx emission levels is given in the registration document; it specifies 0.064g/km. As I understand it this would be within the level (0.08 g/km) set in Euro 6.

My questions:

 

1.  Is this vehicle (claimed to be) Euro 6 compliant?

 

2. If so, how is it achieved given that this car has no AdBlue system?

 

Responses awaited with interest!

As far as i know, all tier 6 VW diesels over 150ps use adblue. So I think yours must be tier 5. Interesting that the registration document reckons it complies with tier 6 though. Makes you wonder why they introduced adblue. Unless they took something else out, like EGR, and used adblue instead. Who knows. I believe yours is tier 5 though.

 

I now prepare to be proved wrong!!

According to the Norwegian my15 pricelist, the 150bhp Scout has a nox emission of 73.3mg. It doesnt specify if its euro 5 or 6.

Edit: wrong car, the 184bhp Scout has a nox emission of 64,8mg.

Edited 26 September, 201510 yr by Gromle

I'm lost why there is debate, the O3 scout was marketed as Euro VI since it's launch. Indeed as it was launched after Sep 2014 I think it had to be Euro VI compliant. We have yet to see if this is "real world figures" or software manipulation?

I'm lost why there is debate, the O3 scout was marketed as Euro VI since it's launch. Indeed as it was launched after Sep 2014 I think it had to be Euro VI compliant. We have yet to see if this is "real world figures" or software manipulation?

My apologies. Never realised the Scout was tier 6 from the start.

 

Also just checked the Skoda website, and whereas the section on the Superb mentions SCR on the relevant diesels, the Octy section doesnt mention SCR at all, so I assume no Octy diesels have SCR.

 

As to the question as to how they can comply without SCR. I believe Honest John once mentioned something about 'Manifold in Head'. Ive no idea what that means, but seemingly it is another way of reducing NOx emissions.

The petrol engines below the 1.8 and all the diesel engines were Euro 5 until MY16, introduced in may this year.

1.8 TSI and 2.0 TSI were Euro 6 since MY15 at least, probably from the start.

For the Scout maybe they were also Euro 6 from the start, as it was introduced few months before the new regulation.

 

Wether  a diesel engine needs SCR or not (AdBlue), this depends on the capacity of the vehicule to fit within the 80mg/km limit of Euro 6 for homologation (for diesel, for petrol I think it is 60mg/km).

Apparently the Octavia can do it while the Superb 3 with the 2.0 TDI 190 cannot, probably due to the weight of the car.

 

From what I've been able to grasp, the VW cheating consisted in disabling the SCR (or at least disabling it most of the time) once the car was no longer under test. 

As such, this particular treachery could not be applied to the O3.

 

However, it is apparently common knowledge that all manufacturers are using as many tricks as possible to reduce their cars emission during the homologation test.

As a consequence, it is to be expected that as most of Euro 6 diesel vehicules, your car will produce under normal usage conditions,  from 5 to 10 times more quantity of NOx than the homologated value. 

By the way, contrarily to the CO2 you produce also by yourself every time you breath, NOx and especially the NO2 are poisonous.

Edited 26 September, 201510 yr by JPH0091

I bought a new Scout (DSG, DPF 184 PS) in January 2015. While I was up to speed on the CO2 emissions I had not paid attention to the issues associated with NOx. Since the VW scandal broke this week I’ve been looking into my Scout's NOx levels.

The first thing that puzzled me is that the brochure (which I was given when I was considering buying the car, and which I had kept) makes no mention of NOx at all. Emissions are specified only for CO2.  I’m not sure what to make of that.  And I can see nothing to indicate which emissions standard (Euro 5 or Euro 6) this model is compliant with.

A value for the measured NOx emission levels is given in the registration document; it specifies 0.064g/km. As I understand it this would be within the level (0.08 g/km) set in Euro 6.

My questions:

 

1.  Is this vehicle (claimed to be) Euro 6 compliant?

 

2. If so, how is it achieved given that this car has no AdBlue system?

 

Responses awaited with interest!

Why did you buy the car? ..... Because you liked the look of it, how it drove, the performance, fulfilled your needs? Or because it was environmentally friendly and only £30 to tax?

Does it drive any differently to last week?

Enjoy your car or buy a Nissan note! Stop worrying about emissions it's still very clean even if it's (potentially) slightly not as much as vw group said it was.

Were people misled maybe? But only if they purchased entirely for the environmental reason....and now they can see £££ signs.

I have a new my16 scout 184 dsg. It is euro 6 which includes the stop start and regeneration system to reduce emissions. I believe my15 will be euro 5 as they don't. My car is also lower tax band than previous model.

I have a new my16 scout 184 dsg. It is euro 6 which includes the stop start and regeneration system to reduce emissions. I believe my15 will be euro 5 as they don't. My car is also lower tax band than previous model.

My MY14 vRS TDI has both stop start and regeneration. £30 a year tax too.

My MY14 vRS TDI has both stop start and regeneration. £30 a year tax too.

Wasn't aware the earlier cars had it, however there must be something different as both the emissions and ved are lower than previous year.

I have a new my16 scout 184 dsg. It is euro 6 which includes the stop start and regeneration system to reduce emissions. I believe my15 will be euro 5 as they don't. My car is also lower tax band than previous model.

Euro 5 or 6 doesnt affect the VED band. The emissions that determine whether your car complies with the current Euro tiers (5, 6 etc), are CO, NOx, particulates, and hydrocarbons. The VED band is decided on CO2 figures. Stop start and regenerative braking were introduced to try and reduce CO2 figures.

As Neily mentions, all Octy Mk3s (I think) have had stop start and regen from the start.

The 184 TDI motor I believe has been EU6 since its introduction. Whilst v closely related to the 150, it has bigger (almost certainly more accurate) injectors, VVT and i suspect sight differences to its emission system in order to make the power without being much dirtier.

No 184 TDI as far as I am aware has SCR, as it was only installed in lighter VAG vehicles so to meet EU6 criteria didnt need SCR. I saw some info somewhere on the web suggesting a Golf GTD emitted late-60mg/km of NOx with the limit being 80 for EU6...so sounds like its just EU6 compliant.

The 190 just to make those few extra HP and torques...as well as being installed in heavier cars like the Passat and reworked Sharan/new Touran probably forced them to adopt SCR to comply to EU6.

I wouldnt be entirely surprised if the 190 SCR makes an appearance in the GTD and vRS in time to come.

Something that I have been thinking about.....if you stick a tuning box on a car and unleash another 50 or so horses, I wonder if the cars NOx emissions go through the roof as a consequence?

The 184 TDI was anounced Euro 5 in Skoda documentation until MY16. On the other hand, it was also the case for the 1.8 TSI before MY14. So you might be right telling it is EUro 6 from the beginning.

Nox levels in EURO4 - 5 - 6

Samsung S5

Nox levels in EURO4 - 5 - 6

Samsung S5

Is it any wonder vw got creative with the software!! Even if the software is on European cars it's would only be needed for the US. Those figures are nuts!

To add to the debate, the official NOx figures for my Octy Mk3 2.0TDI 150 is 124 mg/KM.

Im pretty sure the engine in the Mk3 hasnt been incriminated yet.

Edited 27 September, 201510 yr by JungleJames

Yes as yet the EA288 hasnt been called into question.

I think the EA189 unit was the 1st gen CR (140/170hp) which the US would have had in their Mk6 Golf, Mk7 Passat etc but with SCR to meet the CA 31mg/km NOx limit.

Looking at the figures I guess the only way the engine was ever going to meet those figures were if it did something clever with the emissions system during testing. I bet if you dyno'd one of these cars whilst being tested I bet its power and torque outputs would be way off.

....also the reason why i suspect other manufactuers selling diesels in the US will soon get dragged through the mud.