felicia N-reg 1.3 glxi AFTERMARKET & SUPERIOR head gasket?

[RicardoM]

Could you take good photos of the top of each piston, please? Also photos of the fresh cleaned head on all 6 sides.

[fpga]

Yes of course. I'll wait until it's a bit lighter i.e. It's quite wet and dark here at the moment. I need to do the leak test anyway so that would be a good time to take the photos. I'm just waiting for all the parts distributors I emailed to come back to me.

 

In the meantime...here's one I took earlier.

 

There were no marks on my crank pulley as per the manual which threw me to start with.

In this photo the circular TDC mark/dimple that, I relied on instead, is clearly visible on the distributor body.

The first time I lined the rotor arm to that mark, No1 cylinder (nearest the distributor) wasn't on it's compression stroke (tested by putting my finger over No 1 cylinder spark plug hole and waiting for the "Pffft" when lifting my finger off) so I had to turn the crank clockwise until the rotor arm lined up with that circular mark/dimple again. Once the rotor arm was in-line with the mark I turned the crank anti-clockwise until the rotor-arm was at about 10-11 oclock compared to the mark. The piston positions in the photo show that this worked re not having any piston at TDC.

Edited 28 October, 2015 by fpga

[Breezy_Pete]

In case it's helpful, I found a part number that I think is for the headbolt you need: N 90795801 (here).

Searching ebay with the space between the N and the 9 omitted finds a few results, only for sets of 10, but the cheapest of these is approx. £32 delivered.

 

It may be worth talking to a Skoda/Seat/VW/Audi dealer and just asking for that part number, without saying its for a Felicia, it seems from the ebay listings that it may be common to a number of other VAG group cars, some more recent. That way you might be able to buy them singly. There's also a dealer trading on here that may be more helpful than the dealer you've already been to. I've had great service a couple of times with this guy/team.

 

I'm sure Ricardo will mention it if he hasn't already, but you should try to clean the female thread in the block, where that rusted bolt has been, before re-fitting the head.  Ideally with a correct-thread tap, but it can be done by filing a triangular notch along the length of an old bolt, to act as a thread cleaner. (The notch gives the removed debris somewhere to go, rather than grinding in amongst the threads).

[RicardoM]

Great job, Wino, finding the headbolts and adding new tips. The more good tips the better. After fpga finishes the head gasket job, I intend writing a how-to guide about it using all photos he can take on his engine and some photos from my collection. I would like to make that guide a team effort, so I will pass my draft to anyone willing to help and contribute with his knowledge and personal wrenching experience.
 

I'm sure Ricardo will mention it if he hasn't already...

You are right, I had, not in writing, but rather linking a video in 2 parts (see previous posts) titled Replace a Cylinder Head Gasket Yourself and do it RIGHT!. There are many good tips in there and cleaning the threads of the headbolts is highly emphasized and explained.

 

PS

fpga, is your nickname related to your job or hobby in electronics engineering (FPGA) ?

Edited 28 October, 2015 by RicardoM

[RicardoM]

There were no marks on my crank pulley as per the manual which threw me to start with.

Oh yeah... the dreaded mark on crankshaft pulley. It is minuscule and often covered by dirt. See photo after I cleaned the notch and marked it with white paint.

 

You can also use the notch on the flywheel as reference for TDC1. You need to remove the crankshaft sensor first.

[fpga]

Right, first things first. Please find attached the requested photos....

 

 

Edited 28 October, 2015 by fpga

[fpga]

For some reason I can't upload...Head_back or my leak test (combustion chambers filled with petrol for 30 mins) which passed with flying colours...once I'd replaced the spark plugs oops..

I'll try again tomorrow.

 

Re the new posts...above

Wino ...thanks very much for the advice...it's all very helpful and I'll be contacting Mike or failing that Craig tomorrow. It looks very good to me. Thanks also for the other advice...I need it e.g. I wouldn't have done the leak test without Ricardo's recommendation and could've put it all back together with leaking valves. The dealers I went to was Startins in Powick Worcester not Listers. They used to have a great bloke called Paul in spares who was extremely helpful and knowledgeable ( he used to race lawnmowers ). Paul's no longer there. Shame! he was worth his weight in gold.

 

Ricardo...thanks for the extra explanations i.e. I didn't know which marks were which on the crank case and had no clue about the one under the sensor.

 

I've got a real soft spot for these Skoda engines.

 

Re fpga...yes you're right on the money there...soft hardware....though the lowest I go is inline x86 assembly language to speed up Powerbasic and Delphi which are pretty fast already.

Edited 28 October, 2015 by fpga

[RicardoM]

For some reason I can't upload

The reason is you can't attach more than 2MB of photos in total. In other words, each user has maximum 2MB of storage space on BriSkoda server. Yeah, I know, it is very small... In order to circumvent this limitation, you can use free image hosting servers. There are hundreds of them available. I happen to use imgur server. It is recommended to create an account with them (it is free) to upload multiple files at once and to keep things organized. After uploading, each photo will have a direct link given by the server. Copy that link and insert it in your post.

 

Alternatively you can send all photos to me by email at [email protected]. Put all of them in a ZIP, 7z or RAR archive and attach it to your email. I will post them for you.

[RicardoM]

Valves leak test.

[fpga]

Thank you very much for posting those.

[fpga]

I can confirm that Mike at [email protected] IS as helpful as reported in the link previously given.

[RicardoM]

What parts are you waiting to be delivered and start assembling the head? Do you have all the tools for the job? Valve stem seals and head.

 

Clean the top of the block meticulously. Remove as many carbon deposits as you can from the top of the pistons. Clean all the rust from liners, block top, head, and pistons. Use WD40 for that. Blow off all debris that fell on top of the pistons. Clean the threads of head bolts with a tap. Dry the holes with air or with a strip from a rag wrapped on a stick. Cover the block to protect it from the elements.

[fpga]

___What parts are you waiting to be delivered

head bolt set

head gasket set

thermostat (for alloy housing hopefully including gaskets)

oil filter

I checked that single part bolt number and got three places all in Russia.

Price $2...so that was a cheap option.

A number of the other bolts are rusted and flexed a lot like the one that broke as I was undoing them so...going for the whole set.

i.e. I don't want to have to remove another broken one.

___Clean the top of the block meticulously.

___Remove as many carbon deposits as you can from the top of the pistons.

___Clean all the rust from liners, block top, head, and pistons. Use WD40 for that.

Will do.

___Blow off all debris that fell on top of the pistons.

I don't have an airline...but thought sellotape might do that.

___Do you have all the tools for the job? Valve stem seals

No air line or 13mm socket...I found a 1/2 inch fitted well though.

I haven't ordered valve stem seals.

My car's stopped me doing something important that I was already behind with so I feel under pressure to fix it as quickly as I can

even if that's to the detriment of long-term reliability (which I'm sure it is).

Not my normal MO but the only option at the moment.

___Clean the threads of head bolts with a tap.

___Dry the holes with air or with a strip from a rag wrapped on a stick.

___Cover the block to protect it from the elements.

Will do...using the rag method.

Re the tap...I don't have one but was planning to use Wino's improvised bolt-chaser method. I don't even have a dremel to make that easy so will revert to hand tools. Re the broken bolt...after a few revs it came out (almost it's full length) by hand so I'm quite hopeful.

Edited 30 October, 2015 by fpga

[RicardoM]

I haven't ordered valve stem seals.

My car's stopped me doing something important that I was already behind with so I feel under pressure to fix it as quickly as I can

even if that's to the detriment of long-term reliability (which I'm sure it is).

Not my normal MO but the only option at the moment.

You can live without changing them as long as the engine didn't 'eat' oil. I changed mine at 90K miles.

As for the tools, you can get away with what you have, but a good torque wrench is a must. A good set of feeler gauges too. I imagine you don't have a garage or a full toolbox. Even so, a cylinder head job can be done respecting the cleanliness of mating surfaces and bolt threads. The rest is doing in reverse the removal steps.

[fpga]

___You can live without changing them as long as the engine didn't 'eat' oil.

It's done 55K miles now and wasn't really using oil that much at all.

If at 90K miles it is, I'll probably have the time to do a proper job then so thanks for the advice.

___...you can get away with what you have, but a good torque wrench is a must. A good set of feeler gauges too. I imagine you don't have a garage or a full toolbox.

Spot on!

The car's in the open and I lack quite a few tools.

I do have a good torque wrench but can't find my feelers. I'll remedy that.

Again...thanks for the advice and reassurance.

Edited 31 October, 2015 by fpga

[fpga]

To do a proper job I got some valve stem seals and a decompressor. Problem is, cos I wasn't familar with getting the old seals off (my first time ever), I broke a piece of the valve guide off by being over-zealous with some needle-nose pliers and then damaged the combustion chamber end of the guide trying to tap it out such that the valve's now a bit tight in it. Shame 'cos after that I I got the knack. The seal seems to cover where I broke the guide and I can probably scrape the guide (with a small triangular file up it's bore) and to make the valve move easily but...I'm wondering

 

1 is the valve guide removeable OR is it cast into the head (outer-most (small) valve No 1 cylinder)?

and

2 if it is removeable do I just tap it from the combustion chamber end to get it out?

 

Also whilst Skoda list a valve guide for their 1.6 felicia and other VAG engined models there is no sign of a valve guide for the old Skoda (1.3) engine.

 

Thank you in anticipation.

Edited 3 November, 2015 by fpga

[fpga]

Ok....I've found an OE part Number here http://2008.yiparts.com/Part/en/AHSRJF i.e. 047 109 608.

Unfortunately Skoda don't seem to list that part at all and I'm just wondering where I can get this part from using paypal independently and without any assistance from the vendor.

This seems to be the same part too

http://infopart.org/metelli-012774-part

Edited 3 November, 2015 by fpga

[RicardoM]

OMG

I recommend going back to Gerry to extract the guide, make a new one on a lathe using the old one as a template then press it back. Hopefully you didn't scratch the valve stem too...

 

The valve guides are already pressed in a new head. They go in from the top of the head. Cooling them in dry ice helps before installation. But the guys from the machine shop will know better.

 

Be gentle with parts! If you feel the need to get a bigger hammer, you're doing it wrong.

 

 

Edited 3 November, 2015 by RicardoM

[fpga]

___omg

Yes....my fault....I should've quit while I was ahead.

Never mind...I know how to take valve stem seals off gently now.

 

___Be gentle with parts!

Yes...I should've been a lot more gentle i.e the piece broke off in my needle-nose pliers like a piece of chocolate easter egg.

Unfortunately, initially I wasn't sure what was seal and what was guide and gripped the seal both inside and outside the hole grabbing the guide with it

After wrecking the first guide I switched to the wrench in post 22 and grabbed just the outer seal body twisting it side to side taking carel not to pinch the guide inside too tightly. I didn't scratch any valve stems i.e. I removed the valves first.

 

Thanks for the photos...are those the guides that fit my engine i.e. a 1.3 from April 1996?  The log book says it's a 136B engine but it looks like the same guide fits most 1.3s

Edited 3 November, 2015 by fpga

[Breezy_Pete]

Ok....I've found an OE part Number here http://2008.yiparts.com/Part/en/AHSRJF i.e. 047 109 608.

Unfortunately Skoda don't seem to list that part at all and I'm just wondering where I can get this part from using paypal independently and without any assistance from the vendor.

This seems to be the same part too

http://infopart.org/metelli-012774-part

That part number seems to refer to a cast iron valve guide. Is that what you have?  I would be expecting something more brass/bronze-like, as in Ricardo's images?

 

To remove the broken one, you really want something that fits into the inner bore, with a suitable shoulder to press on the tip of the conical part in the combustion chamber. If you don't have access to a lathe to make up suitable press tools, I would entrust the job to an engine shop. Shouldn't cost much to remove the damaged guide and re-fit a replacement. They will likely have better access to, and familiarity with, the part required.

 

It is DIY-able, but it isn't easy, and really you need to ream out the guide after fitting, and re-machine the valve seat coaxially with the new guide, the latter really being beyond the DIY'er.

[RicardoM]

Thanks for the photos...are those the guides that fit my engine i.e. a 1.3 from April 1996?

There are two type of valve guides for Felicia 1.3 engines. Before 08.98 the valve stem has 8mm in diameter. After 08.98, it has 7mm. Both photos show the guides for your engine.

[fpga]

Wino

Thanks for your advice re the required machining.

Although the seal end of the guide broke off like cast iron would....

the deformation and rough strands I created on the combustion chamber end suggests soft and ductile

but I remember reading cast iron somewhere too.

 

Ricardo

Thanks for confirming those are the ones in the photo. I like that they have shoulders to help with location. Some don't.

 

I'll explore my options in the morning and report back when I've made some progress.

Edited 3 November, 2015 by fpga

[RicardoM]

The valve guides are made of a special type of brass. Depending on the thickness of the part and the alloy constituents, brass can be easy to crack and chip. The guide must have very low friction properties and a lower hardness than the stem of the valve. Don't be deceived by the color of the guides in my top photo. They reflect the texture of the table. The true color is in the bottom photo.

[fpga]

Thank you very much for the clarification.

That's very helpful to know.

[fpga]

I took my head in for the old guide to be removed.

 

I now need a new valve guide for my 136b engine...it's the outside port on No 1 cylinder (smaller valve head) that looks like an exhaust valve.

ebay and amazon show nothing.

 

I've tried a few other websites and managed to find an original part number....047 109 608.

It also gave a manufacturer and replacement part number ....   METELLI 01-2774 (012774) Valve Guides

I emailed Metelli on Wednesday...and got a reply on Thursday asking me to contact their UK distributor.

I did this yesterday but no one came back.

Today I called and Joel said they don't stock that part and said that someone would call me back.

I'm waiting for the call.

The point is...you can't really trust what you see on the internet.

 

The engineer looked inside the port at the middle of the guide and said it was cast iron.

Ricardo...this seems to contrast with it being bronze so I tried to find Skoda's suppllier(s).

 

I previously tried a dealer and they said there is no part number for 1.3 Felicia valve guides so they're stuck. Thanks VW!

I called Skoda customer "service" UK to track down a supplier.

The lady said that my only route is through the Dealer Parts Service seemingly blind to the fact that the dealers can't help because there is no part number.

She said Skoda UK had no contact to their technical department or the Skoda factory.

When pressed she said they did but only internal contacts and made it clear that Skoda Customer Service would not assist.

How disappointing that the longevity inherent in Skoda's design might be undermined by such sentiment from VW.

 

I now need to find a valve guide and can pay by paypal given an email address and amount.

Edited 6 November, 2015 by fpga