Hi all,

 

I've had my Yeti for 18 months which I bought as an approved used car from Beadles in Maidstone with a 12 month warranty.

The dual mass flywheel has just failed after only 32K miles which damaged the bell housing for the gearbox and also needed a new clutch. Reading on other forums it seems this is not uncommon and is from a weak design. The repair bill came to £2250 but Skoda UK are refusing to contribute because I took it to an independent Bosch approved garage. I had to do this as I needed it repaired quickly and once it was in there I was committed due to the need to remove the gearbox to see what had happened.

I feel this is grossly unfair and anti competitive as it seems they would have contributed if I'd taken it to the local dealer which was not practical at the time and no doubt would have cost much more. There is no way a part like this should fail like that after such short mileage. I've never had a clutch/dmf fail on me before in 30 years of driving.

I was happy with the car (my first Skoda) up until this but the treatment from Skoda, especially after the engine issues seems poor.

 

I feel this behaviour is totally anti competitive in terms of goodwill payments.
 

1/ I am not alone in being a Yeti owner who has done over 100k miles with NO clutch or DMF faults. 

2/ DMF faults have not been a common subject on this forum.

3/ Your car is obviously well out of it's manufacturers Warranty, plus 6 months out of it's Used Car Warranty.

4/ Both Warranties state you have to abide by their Rules, as laid down in the T & C's. It appears you have ignored those.

 

Sorry to be harsh, but I do not see you treatment as being unfair or anti-competitive.

I'm not trying to claim on either warranty. I'm asking for a goodwill contribution from Skoda as this part has failed well before its' shelf life and is widely known to be a bad design and not fit for purpose.

 

They have declined the goodwill payment because the repairs weren't done at a Skoda approved garage. To me this is clearly anti competitive not to mention the fact that it wasn't possible to get the job done quickly.

Trading standards?

I'm not trying to claim on either warranty. I'm asking for a goodwill contribution from Skoda as this part has failed well before its' shelf life and is widely known to be a bad design and not fit for purpose.

 

They have declined the goodwill payment because the repairs weren't done at a Skoda approved garage. To me this is clearly anti competitive not to mention the fact that it wasn't possible to get the job done quickly.

 

Define "shelf life" for a mechanical part?

If it is such a "bad design" why aren't we hearing of faults every week?

If it is not "fit for purpose" why does nearly every manufacturer fit them, especially to diesel vehicles?

Why is it anti-competitive? 

Why should they pay for something they have no control over? 

You could have taken the car to any Skoda dealer to look at the "problem" but you made a choice to use someone else, therefore it is your "problem" and yours alone. Trying to pass the buck at Skoda is pointless.

You make my point with 100k miles on yours, it's not passing the buck, it should not fail after such short mileage. As the car was broken it wasn't possible to take it to a Skoda garage. If you look on forums including this one you'll find other examples and the DMF's are known to be a weakness. I believe this one has been redesigned since due to the many premature failures. The Bosch mechanics who fixed mine said it was a rubbish weak design. I'm not sure why you are being so defensive about this issue, do you work for them? If you can't say anything helpful then don't bother or at least read what I've written and do some research before just being negative when I've just ask for advice/help.

You could have arranged to take the car to any Skoda garage. You obviously managed to get it to the Bosch place, so sorry that is just making excuses.

 

If they are so "weak" how come I and some other Yeti owners have managed 100k miles plus, with no problems?

If it is such a common problem why aren't there lots of threads on here about it? I can find very few over the 5 years I have been involved.

 

The use I make of my Yeti is probably quite hard on it's DMF, towing a caravan and often going off road, but there is nothing wrong with mine, and I still have plenty of clutch life left as well. 

 

I know of no redesign that has been made. Perhaps you would like to provide evidence. 

And of course the Bosch mechanic would say that, as it is what they wanted to you to hear.

 

By my estimation your car is over 4.5 years old, and you have had it for 1.5 years, so you know nothing about how it was treated before you bought it. Perhaps it is possible that the previous owner was always riding the clutch and often stalling the car.

 

No, I do not work for Skoda. For your info until last month I was a signalman and am now retired.

 

I have read all you have written, here and elsewhere, and I am quite entitled to my opinion, and since this is a discussion forum anyone can join in that discussion, whether they agree with you or not, and say what they wish, as long as they abide by the Forum rules. 

Edited 15 January, 201610 yr by Llanigraham

They have declined the goodwill payment because the repairs weren't done at a Skoda approved garage. To me this is clearly anti competitive not to mention the fact that it wasn't possible to get the job done quickly.

Hang on, you're suggesting their handling of goodwill is anti-competitive? It's goodwill, they don't have any obligation at all.

There seems to be a growing trend of folk expecting car companies to pick up the pieces out of warranty. Perhaps understandable as car get more complex and more expensive to fix? This is misplaced in my opinion. Buying a new car (Skoda) is very expensive but you get the safety net of a 3 year warranty with the option of extending to 5yrs. Some brand even give 7 years now! A 5 year old example (or one out of warranty) is significantly cheaper, in large part because of the risk of major malfunction. Even with older cars people have the opportunity to buy additional warranty.

Skoda's goodwill is just that, discretionary and should be not seen any kind of alternative to a warranty.

I understand where tonyt747 is coming from. I've got a long history of illogical rants against what I see as unfair situations where I've been the loser and feel hard done to. Sometimes we're just unlucky and what makes it worse here is the scale of the loss.

 

I'm with the rest though and can't see that there is a legitimate cause for complaint.

 

p.s. Must say that every time I see a post like this it puts the willies up me and I wonder if I did the right thing when I bought my car....

Edited 15 January, 201610 yr by longedge

I understand where tonyt747 is coming from. I've got a long history of illogical rants against what I see as unfair situations where I've been the loser and feel hard done to. Sometimes we're just unlucky and what makes it worse here is the scale of the loss.

 

I'm with the rest though and can't see that there is a legitimate cause for complaint.

 

p.s. Must say that every time I see a post like this it puts the willies up me and I wonder if I did the right thing when I bought my car....

 

I have owned a few supposed unreliable cars before - heavily documented unreliable cars but not had a single issue. You look after them, they look after you (and those that dont should really fail within the warranty periods)

 

Freelander 04 plate 2.0tdi.  Bought 2nd hand with 12k miles on it at 4 yrs old. Sold it 3 years later with 118k on it. Only issue was the DMF went and resulted in a new clutch - cost £1k. That and a back box of the exhaust and tyres/brakes etc was it. Never let me down. Ever.

 

People only tend to report issues on forums, rarely compliments.

Quite Tomo.

 

Since 2003 I have owned:

A Freelander L series diesel that did just over 100k miles and the only thing that I replaced was the VCU support bearings.

A Td4 Freelander that also did over 100k miles and needed nothing replacing

A Yeti 4x4 140bhp that has now done just over 100k miles and has only had the rear springs replaced.

 

And presently I am considering replacing this Yeti with another one.

Quite Tomo.

 

Since 2003 I have owned:

A Freelander L series diesel that did just over 100k miles and the only thing that I replaced was the VCU support bearings.

A Td4 Freelander that also did over 100k miles and needed nothing replacing

A Yeti 4x4 140bhp that has now done just over 100k miles and has only had the rear springs replaced.

 

And presently I am considering replacing this Yeti with another one.

 

Another compliment - 

 

Skoda Superb I 1.9pd 2003 (now sold but still going strong)  170k miles - No DPF failure and original clutch , battery and exhaust

 

Saying that it's replacement has a SMF ( I believe) 

Suggestion:-

 

Clearly some DMF's last a long time ( A friend of mine was nearing 300k and had had a clutch change but not DMF) - some don't - why? This is not just Skoda/VAG issue!

 

A Dual Mass Flywheel/clutch is effectively two metal masses coupled by springs with a rigid friction plate

A Single Mass Flywheel/clutch is a single metal mass with a sprung friction plate

 

 

Rather than exchanging insults is it worth trying to work out why? Why don't we compare good and bad - bit like the clues in a game of Cluedo

 

Is it to do with how a car is used -  Few examples:-

 

Towing caravan

 

OR

 

Is the car parked in gear/ handbrake on with DMF springs left under tension

 

OR 

 

Live in a hilly area

 

OR

 

Drive like a maniac

 

 

My own starter for 10 re Superb 100PD

 

Long lived DMF - car driven most days, never ride the clutch at lights, live in a flattish area, low powered engine, clutch/flywheel springs never under tension when parked (If you park in gear on a hill you will tension springs unless you dip clutch again after releasing foot-brake when handbrake applied) , never overfill oil

 

 

We can't change the past of expensive failures but I can't believe there is so much manufacturing difference between the good and the bad (might be wrong) but is it worth being honest to try to work out why some DMF's last forever(ish) and some don't so that we and others can avoid an expensive future bill

 

 

Oh well stand back and wait for the Wrath of Khan

 

 

 

I don't know whether either of my Yetis have or had a dmf which tells you I have had no such trouble. I have been  a regular on this sub forum for quite a while and have noticed little if anything in the way of such problems. The last car I owned with any significant problems was an Alfa in the nineties which was  truly troublesome. Sometime earlier I discovered why Renaults are so cherished by fans of high build quality and precision engineering. Dmfs are I believe an attempt to mitigate the comparative coarseness of diesel propulsion of smaller land vehicles. The O/P shouldn't be surprised if he finds members of an enthusiast model forum are less than welcoming to someone who has apparently only signed up to publicise and untypical problem with their favourite car which -on analysis- amounts to a bad luck story coupled with a beef about a manufacturer who won't make him a present in respect of a car in it's middle years which he chose not to take to a dealer.

Life is sometimes a bitch.

I don't know whether either of my Yetis have or had a dmf which tells you I have had no such trouble. I have been  a regular on this sub forum for quite a while and have noticed little if anything in the way of such problems. The last car I owned with any significant problems was an Alfa in the nineties which was  truly troublesome. Sometime earlier I discovered why Renaults are so cherished by fans of high build quality and precision engineering. Dmfs are I believe an attempt to mitigate the comparative coarseness of diesel propulsion of smaller land vehicles. The O/P shouldn't be surprised if he finds members of an enthusiast model forum are less than welcoming to someone who has apparently only signed up to publicise and untypical problem with their favourite car which -on analysis- amounts to a bad luck story coupled with a beef about a manufacturer who won't make him a present in respect of a car in it's middle years which he chose not to take to a dealer.

Life is sometimes a bitch.

 

A 1.8tsi petrol Yeti probably will have a DMF the 1.2 manual should have a SMF

Edited 16 January, 201610 yr by bigjohn

My first Yeti was a 140 diesel my current one is a 1.8tsi and has an extended warranty!

My first Yeti was a 2.0 TDI and had done 54k miles when I got rid of it. No clutch or DMF issues.

To the OP, while I sympathise and see no harm in asking Skoda about it I can't see why you are getting so upset with them. The car's out of warranty and indeed out of used car warranty so they have no obligation to help regardless of the mileage. Manufacturers simply can't be expected to be held responsible for every failure on every car once out of warranty. If they did we'd all be paying double for our cars to cover this.

As I said, there's never any harm in asking but with a used car out of warranty you shouldn't be surprised they said no. If you had owned the car from new you may have had a (slightly) stronger case but you really can't expect any manufacturer to contribute to the repair of used cars ad infinitum.

I sympathise with the OP - nobody expects a massive bill like that, but the bottom line is that I don't know of a single car manufacturer who deals differently with 'good will' - it's good will for having been loyal to the dealer network. If you wish to avoid a shock bill like this you must take out some sort of breakdown insurance when the car is out of warranty.

There are rules that things, even as complex as cars, must be of merchantable quality, and in the first 6 months the onus is on the seller to say it was. After that it's with the customer to prove it wasn't and this would be a hard one to prove. Even then, this is a matter between the customer and dealer who sold the car. He has no 'contract' with Skoda themselves so no recourse to them.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm afraid I'm with the majority here. It's no surprise to anyone that cars are getting increasingly complex and with that the potential for things to go wrong and, when they do go wrong, for it being expensive to have them fixed. It's why when finding myself in the fortunate position of being able to buy a brand new car for me it was the no-brainer option to add the extra two years warranty. At 5 years I'll either take out another warranty or, if it's the right decision for me, trade in for a new car and again take the maximum available warranty. It's all about your attitude to risk - I'm prepared to potentially "waste" a couple of hundred pounds each year for a warranty that I may never need to use for the peace of mind that if something does go wrong I'm probably going to be covered for most if not all of the cost. Others may feel the premium is better spent elsewhere and take a gamble that nothing will go wrong. Putting it in perspective for the same money you can have a good warranty and a mid-range smartphone or "this week's top of the range smartphone". Both options will probably last a year before they need to be replaced (well, if the second option is important to you you wouldn't want to be seen with last year's fruit phone would you?) so you pay your money and make your choice.

 

And going back to the earliest posts, whilst I don't always agree with Graham (and I think he would be quite disappointed if people always did   ), he has been contributing his expertise to the forum for a long time and its a brave newbie that tells him basically "back me or butt out" because that attitude can quickly get you tarred with the Offnote brush.

 

I have had a DMF failure. It was the latest problem on my previous car, a Volvo V50 and occurred at 58k. Bought at 18 months old (ex Kwikfit reps car apparently), no towing and in the four years I had it it wasn't driven hard, parked out of gear, seldom stalled etc. so failed despite what should have been an easy life. Cost of repair was around £1500 from memory but I'd always maintained the warranty and used a main agent for servicing and repairs so no cost to me. (Despite the Volvo reputation for reliability this was the classic Friday afternoon car - the only good thing about owning it was the main agent was only 10 minutes walk down the road. I know - I was doing that walk pretty regularly.

I have had two dmf failures on a vw 1.9tdi. The first was at about 18 months/18,000 miles and obviously done under warranty. The second happened at about 68,000 miles when the car was about 9 years old, so no luck obviously on that one.

My logic is simple [like me] in that the more moving parts an assembly has over a similar comparable one, the more likely it is to go wrong. Even when built under strict quality control standards it must be more likely to fail.

My driving is non aggressive, mpg figures in line with manufactures published figures, I live in a flat part of the country and have towed for about 1,000 miles each year with a tow weight WELL below the max stated for the vehicle.

I am lead to understand [possibly wrongly] that dmf smooth out what is a sometimes "lumpy" engine and as such are used on diesels.

 

I do not believe 32,000 is acceptable, but do believe Skoda response is. If the vehicle had a full service history and had been taken back to the supplying/main dealer, I would have hoped and suspected the result would have been different.

 

Colin

I have had two dmf failures on a vw 1.9tdi. The first was at about 18 months/18,000 miles and obviously done under warranty. The second happened at about 68,000 miles when the car was about 9 years old, so no luck obviously on that one.

My logic is simple [like me] in that the more moving parts an assembly has over a similar comparable one, the more likely it is to go wrong. Even when built under strict quality control standards it must be more likely to fail.

My driving is non aggressive, mpg figures in line with manufactures published figures, I live in a flat part of the country and have towed for about 1,000 miles each year with a tow weight WELL below the max stated for the vehicle.

I am lead to understand [possibly wrongly] that dmf smooth out what is a sometimes "lumpy" engine and as such are used on diesels.

 

I do not believe 32,000 is acceptable, but do believe Skoda response is. If the vehicle had a full service history and had been taken back to the supplying/main dealer, I would have hoped and suspected the result would have been different.

 

Colin

 

 

 

Engines that have higher levels of torque/power tend to have Dual Mass Flywheels. They were first introduced when diesels became much more powerful as the clutch fitted to a Single Mass Flywheel couldn't cope with the extra strain - with a SMF the take-up springs where just the small ones contained within the pressure plate.

 

On the Skoda's as far as I am aware it's fitted to the more powerful manual engined cars (1.8tsi, 2.0tsi, 1.4tsi twin charge petrols  & 2.0+ diesel). Most lesser powerful manual cars have a SMF (some 1.6cr/5speed , smaller cc petrol inc 1.4tsi 122-125). 

 

Can't comment much further on DSG auto but most have a DMF

 

There do seem to be some official Skoda SMF conversions for the lower powered 1.9pd engines

 

However each model has to be checked as it does vary throughout the VAG range - A friend of mine has a lower cc petrol VW Golf that does have a DMF

Edited 16 January, 201610 yr by bigjohn

Engines that have higher levels of torque/power tend to have Dual Mass Flywheels. They were first introduced when diesels became much more powerful as the clutch fitted to a Single Mass

There do seem to be some official Skoda SMF conversions for the lower powered 1.9pd engines

 

The second replacement was in fact with a SMF. The diesel was 100bhp and 9 years old. The high price made it a bit of a no brainer to get the  £700 SMF replacement from a well regarded independent garage.

On replacement I did notice two differences. The car was less tractable, ie I needed a lower gear when driving around town. It was also noisier.

The primary reason for DMFs is the reduction of NVH. And their failure is a well-known, industry-wide issue. Interestingly, the only DMF failure I have had was on a very well-driven Volvo V50 (2 litre, 140 bhp diesel) at around 30,000 miles. I have had a new clutch and gearbox in the Yeti, which was diagnosed as a clutch spring failure, but knowing the lies that that particular dealer like to peddle, I am now wondering if that was a DMF issue too (the new gearbox was needed due to bell housing damage).

But, all that said, I side with the majority in terms of the good will issue. Good will is, by its very nature, discretionary and conditional.

On the Skoda's as far as I am aware it's fitted to the more powerful manual engined cars (1.8tsi, 2.0tsi, 1.4tsi twin charge petrols  & 2.0+ diesel). Most lesser powerful manual cars have a SMF (some 1.6cr/5speed , smaller cc petrol inc 1.4tsi 122-125). 

 

I wasn't aware that any petrol Yetis have DMF's. I thought DMF's were fitted only to diesels cars in order to even out the pulses of diesel engines when under load at low revs.

I wasn't aware that any petrol Yetis have DMF's. I thought DMF's were fitted only to diesels cars in order to even out the pulses of diesel engines when under load at low revs.

 

Many powerful petrol & diesel cars are fitted with DMF's these day

http://www.sachsperformance.com/product_info.php?language=en&products_id=459

 

 

I thought 1.8tsi petrol Yetis did have a DMF. Could be wrong -

 

I've tried entering details into Eurocarparts for the 1.8 and two clutches show up - One has DMF and Concentric Slave Cylinder , it's not clear about the other

 

The 1.2/1.4 show up with a 3 part kit of traditional coverplate, sprung clutch friction plate and conventional release bearing

Edited 17 January, 201610 yr by bigjohn