Potential turbo noise?

Took the car in for a MOT and a cambelt change but now have a noise which sounds like turbo going.

 

I have read so many forum topics about turbo noises and potential causes but I am asking some specific questions that I hope the Briskoda experts can answer.

 

The car.

2005 - Octavia 2.0 Tdi Laurin Klement (BKD engine)

180,000 miles.  -  Owned since 60,000 - Car used for work visiting vulnerable people in the community

Clutch replaced at 173,000.

 

Problem

Took car in for MOT and replacement cambelt, tensioner and water pump.

Passed MOT but since picking it up there is a noise like a distant police siren, when accelerating 1100rpm - 2000rpm. Also noise when lifting off.

Took car back and they re-checked the cambelt tension, looked for leaking pipes. I have always used same garage and the mechanic did say that there was quite a bit of oil around the intercooler pipes but didn't think that that would cause the noise.

 

Questions

A/ Is physical inspection the only way to prove that it is the turbo?

B/ Would leaking intercooler pipes or boost pipes create a siren noise or a whoosh sound?

C/ Any recommendations for companies regarding diagnosis/remanufactured turbo?

D/ Is it practical to disconnect the turbo and have a very slow car but one that will not explode?

 

Conscious that car is 10.5 years old with 180k so need to balance cost of repairs relative to its value. Also recognise it is cheaper than upgrading to a later car.

 

Thanks for any thoughts.

Edited 19 January, 201610 yr by Prof. Outdoors

The only way to really know what is going on with the turbo is to take it out and check on how much the turbine and compressor shaft moves. 

 

Based on the miles, it would be wise to get the turbo replaced sooner rather than later. You can get money off the bill of a recon when you give them your clapped out turbo in exchange. 

 

Usually you will get excess smoke and the check engine light in the event of a significant boost leak.

 

If you were to disconnect the turbo, you'd have a VERY smoky and/or slow car. The engine will go into limp mode immediately. 

 

The repair bill will be much higher if the turbo is allowed to fail catastrophically. Mine BKD turbo did just that - failed under full load and full speed. The compressor flew apart and sent shrapnel all over the place. Had to have a new intercooler and boost pipes amongst other things. Lucky for me it was under warranty. The compressor volute casing was found laying on the engine undertray!

 

As for rebuilt turbos, there are plenty of places around that will supply a recon turbo. I used Turbo Technics who sent me a recon in exchange for another worn out turbo (difference case to the one that went bang!) and I sent them the other one back and had an indy fit it for me. 

 

That was quite a few years ago so you may get some other recommendations on that one. 

I have contacted some turbo companies regarding cost of remanufactured turbos.

Gap Turbo in Birmingham seem the cheapest so far and they can remove/fit as well.

 

If anyone has other recommendations please let me know.

 

I intend to take the car back to the garage tomorrow. Want to get their quote for replacement. They thought the noise might be the new belt, tensioner and water pump bedding in. They had fitted my two previous belts without any resulting noise so I was not convinced it was the new parts.

 

It does seem strange that the noise co-incided with renewing the cambelt. I believe that on other Octavia enngines that cambelt replacement can displace turbo hoses but the mechanic insists that these were not disturbed. Not sure if any leak would create that siren sound.

 

Wish it was something simple............and cheap.

Ive had turbos changed on both of mine. Both cars are running the bkd engine. Both are reconed turbos.
 Reconed turbos start at £300 ish depending where you can get them from.

New one are in the £600 area.

take off manifold right behind the air box and put hand on it. engine most almost stall or choke. Otherwise, you have leak on pipes.

 

damaged turbo makes whining noise and excessive oil is leaking to manifold. just remove manifold from intercooler and see how much oil us there.

 

of course, it would be accompanied by lack of boost.

 

otherwise, what you may describe is usual noisy turbo in spool stage. it is normal on these cars. on my first aggressive remap...my turbo sounded as helicopter :-D

 

it is hard to say, i had to hear it

forget about refurbished turbo. you never know what you get. if rotor had touched housing - they modify housing and complete screw up flow.

 

you never know how well they balanced all. they rarely pick least damaged turbos and refurbish anything to make money.

Turbo update - advice welcomed on loss of power.

 

Previously my car made siren noise but there was no lack of power.

 

April - Had remanufactured turbo supplied and fitted by turbo specialist.

Good news - collected car up and no noise.

 

Bad news - the following day it started to make a noise similar to the siren but maybe more like an owl. Worse was the lack of pull in the low range. Car needs to be revved much higher to get any power. It does come in but revs needs to be 2200 or more for any power. Definitely picked up much earlier prior to turbo swap.

Car was not noisy on Friday but made noise on Saturday so I thought a pipe might have come loose.

 

Returned car to turbo specialist.

They say that it is not the turbo itself but cannot trace the noise. They have had the car on the ramp, checked everything over but cannot find a cause for the noise. They looked for leaks and have run it down the dual carriageway and said it had power. (I reiterated the difference in before and after turbo change)

 

They are still trying to resolve this but I need the car for the next 10 days so they have told me to run it for 500 miles with a view to the problem getting worse but hopefully being easier to trace.

 

Questions.

If the turbo itself is performing as it should, what would cause this loss/delay in power? 

Would a leaking pipe cause this delay/loss of power?

I might have seen comments about a seal/clip being a weak point on this engine. Can anyone throw any light on this one?

Are there simple tests that I can do?

Sniper29a mentions taking off the manifold behind air cleaner which I will try.

 

Any other recommendations welcomed.

Check the bottom pipes into and out of the intercooler, and check they are secure. You are right the clips that hold these together are weak. mine had a habit of popping off until I tie wrapped it in place! Ensure the whining noise isn't the tensioner pulley for the cambelt, I had the same noise on a golf a few years back, right before the tensioner let go and I wiped out a few valves! On my Octy I hear my turbo quite clearly as it spools and slows, but I have decatted and have stage 1 turbo, so put it down to this, but there is always plenty of power. Good luck with yours.

Edited 7 May, 201610 yr by hobbes42

Going by my experience from a different car (Vectra 1.9 cdti)

When my turbo went the noise was unbearable and felt horrible to drive, drank half of the engine oil within 15 minutes and would not rev past 2000rpm so I could not get past 60mph at all

When I went to change the turbo the core was completely loose and most likely slashed a seal explaining the oil use

What you can hear is probably the beginning of turbo wear, you WILL know when it's knackered and don't let it happen

What you write looks like bad turbo to me.

 

the following day it started to make a noise similar to the siren but maybe more like an owl

 

 

damaged bearing and turbine/compressor or wrong turbo and turbo is surging/stalling. My friend from Garett told me that occasional whining noise of turbo is normal but it is start of turbo damage. In my case, I damaged turbo during my ECU calibration learning curve. Too much boost kills :-D 

 

Worse was the lack of pull in the low range

 

usually sticky vanes or vaccum pipes or N75 gone...run diagnostic.

 

 

It does come in but revs needs to be 2200 or more for any power.

 

it is usual for stock tuned Octavia. Mine used to be dead till 2200-2500 until I remapped ECU. But it is related to boost and fuelling. Did they play with ECU or just replaced turbo? That's how VW keeps emission down by poor fuelling in low revs. I had to rev my car in mountains like hell. I still have to but midrange power increased dramatically.

 

 

 

Standard VW test for boost is as following:

 

1. warm up engine...oil must be at least 80deg C

2. drive on flat road on 3rd gear

3. let engine revs drop to around 1500rpm

4. flat out, WOT...engine must start to kick rapidly at around 1850rpm

 

 

 

 

 

NEVER USE REFURBISHED TURBOS !!!

 

First, you never know what sort of damage has been caused to turbo.

 

Due to bad oil interval service (5000km if driven short trips and 8000km if driven long distances), oil damages turbo bearing resulting in whining noise and excessive oil leaking later on.

 

Unfortunately, most people drive turbo to the dead - critical material fatigue/failure, turbine/compressor touches housing in better cases or explodes and damages everything...including your engine.

 

Turbo "specialist" grind and polish housing, thus completely changing flow characteristics of housing. Furthermore, I doubt they are able to balance turbine/compressor properly after replacement of shaft, bronze bearing etc...OEM VW turbos are cheap crap made from one part most likely. Unlike pro turbos where you can play with different sizes of turbine/compressor in simple assembly manner.

 

For example Fabia 1.4TDi turbo costs 16k CZK new and 10-12CKZ refurbish. What sane person buys dodgy refurbish gear? Do you like to have your engine destroyed or what?

Edited 8 May, 201610 yr by sniper29a

Thanks for the replies.

 

The lack of low down torque is irritating.

 

I will try to check the pipes for leakage where possible. It could be the turbo itself but it was not making any noise on the first day when I picked it up which makes me suspect a loose pipe/air leak.

 

I know that a new turbo would have been better than a remanufactured one but the price difference was massive. I work with homeless people which is not well paid and the recent cuts meant that funding for my job was stopped therefore I have been out of work. (Just started another job today, only temporary but better than not working)

 

My intention is to take the car back to the turbo specialist to let them have another go at finding the cause. Had to drop down a gear on a hill that normally goes in 4th gear. Like I said there is power but not as much as before and much higher up the rev range. Hopefully they will be able to restore it to it's former glory.

Hi ive had my octavia 2.0 tdi since 90k miles now has 145k, turbo always whistled like a siren. Still does, still pulls hard. Recently had a very loud metallic whooshing noise. It was a loose bottom turbo hose replaced for 36 quid. There was a bit of oil there too.

At 177k miles i personally wouldn't worry, if it dies you'll know about it. It will still run but very slowĺy. You can decide to get it fixed then. They say if it aint broke dont fix it and lets face it these Octavias rearly break.

Diesels arent quiet and i can live with the whistle.  

Edited 26 February, 20188 yr by LeicsSkoda