Headlight problems with Felicia -98 MPI

[RicardoM]

Checking and repairing the original wiring is vital. A Felicia LX doesn't have a front fog lights switch (grey socket) from factory. That means some ****-poor job still exist on the wiring.

 

After checking all related wiring for integrity, insist on checking the proper operation of side light switch and dip beam switch. As any other mechanical switch, they can fail. Sadly, our logic about how they should fail doesn't always match reality.

 

The wiring diagram for cars with DRL isn't anywhere to be found (as a one page colour diagram). Even if I have good graphics design skills, It took me a while to modify a standard wiring, but here you go. A new, shiny, factory-looking diagram. Probably other Felicia owners from Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark need it too.

 

I throw in the wiring diagram for the fog lights and a photo of original GLX central dashboard switches.

 

[HeavyMetalRich]

1.Check the headlight bulbs.I checked them yesterday and for my eyes both bulbs with both filaments were in condition. And so it must be, because I am able to use both low andhigh beams. Only for the high beams I have to keep the switch talk in flash position. If the filaments were in bad condition, the high beams would not work at all.

Thanks for clearing that up about the bulbs. I am constantly reminded in my work to check the simple things first. Also it's difficult to tell from the outset someone's level of skill and knowledge as Ricardo has expressed. So I find difficult to know how much detail to go to.

Just a side point, does the light stalk stay in the full beam position? You should be able to see when you go to test the stalk for operation if it needs cleaning out. However it's not uncommon for the contacts in the switch to wear out. Again you'll be able to draw a conclusion from your testing.

Best of luck to you.

[JussiG7]

Ricardo !!!

 

You manage to surprise me over and over again

 

A "special edition" for Scandinavian people only !!! That is really something awesome...

 

It is sure that there is a lot of need to that diagram with DRL- switch and DRL- relay. Would have been more need, as there were more Felicias in use, but on the other hand: Now that all the Felicias here are 15 yo or more, the electrical problems are more likely to stumble on.

 

Actually you should register your copyrights about that masterpiece! 

 

But back to the ground again. I have a lot of use to that diagram, that´s sure. But how would you advice me. In the Facebook people ask: "Great pic! Am I allowed to share this?"

So I must ask, how you want this diagram to spread: Via Briskoda-site or some other way???

 

And thanks about that fog light diagram and photo, too. My car really has that kind of grey switch. I now pushed it to the position where the rear fog lights work. And then I hided it behind the dashboard, so it is not possible to push it in accident.

 

 HeavyMetalRich said: 

Thanks for clearing that up about the bulbs. I am constantly reminded in my work to check the simple things first. Also it's difficult to tell from the outset someone's level of skill and knowledge as Ricardo has expressed. So I find difficult to know how much detail to go to.
Just a side point, does the light stalk stay in the full beam position? You should be able to see when you go to test the stalk for operation if it needs cleaning out. However it's not uncommon for the contacts in the switch to wear out. Again you'll be able to draw a conclusion from your testing.

 

It is a very good advice to check the simple things first. Thanks about any possible advices that cross your mind HeavyMetalRich

 

Just came home and have to go to bed, but today I managed to remove steering wheel without breaking the airbag.

Then I could access that combi stalk. It was in a very good condition, actually the whole cleaning work was just a thing to be done, there was nothing to clean.

And all the poles were shining bright. And the measuring of the poles number 56, 56a, 56b and 30 showed that they there was no resistance between the poles in different positions of the switch. It is nice that I seem not having to buy a new part. On the other hand, I still don´t know, where thw fault is located.

And yes, the light stalk stays in the full beam position, and is very sturdy (don´t know the right word). Stal is stabile in both positions, and the flash position works ok.

 

So, tomorrow I shall go on with that brand new diagram, with which I can fix the wiring and check the DRL-switch once more.

 

But now it is alreary 00.40 on Sunday, so I have to log out.

 

Thanks once more to you both :sun: 

Best of luck to you.           

[RicardoM]

But back to the ground again. I have a lot of use to that diagram, that´s sure. But how would you advice me. In the Facebook people ask: "Great pic! Am I allowed to share this?"

So I must ask, how you want this diagram to spread: Via Briskoda-site or some other way???

You can share it however you like. Maybe mention 'it's from a guy on BriSkoda, Ricardo' and if I pop out some day in Scandinavia to see that strange thing you call 'snow' they can buy me a beer.

[RicardoM]

One more thing that could narrow down the problem. Because you mentioned that pushing the front fog switch turns on the rear fog lights (an issue that must be addressed, not by hiding the switch but by restoring the wiring), it is obvious that either a) the wiring is messed up or b ) another earth point is bad. Check the earth point  E6 in the trunk.

 

I have no idea how the front fog lights circuit was wired by the previous owner and what he messed up in the process. But it's possible it got ground through another light circuit. I've seen main lights working on a car until both bulbs from the brake circuit (!) failed. Yes, the main lights got ground through the brake bulbs. I could only imagine the look on the face of drivers behind that car watching how each time he put on main lights he touched the brakes too...

 

It would be interesting to know if the rest of the lights on the car are working properly. Both with side lights switch off and on.

 

In case you're wondering why is this big fuss about ground points, have a look at this video. You'll also learn about "the wiggle test".

 

Edited 16 April, 2016 by RicardoM

[JussiG7]

Good Afternoon from Finland !

I caught cold last Sunday, and also my rheumatics symptoms became so bad that I could do just nothing outdoors. Now I´m recovering and have gone on inspecting  the wiring.

Both diagrams that you sent were excellent, and if a car electronics engineer would see them, he surely could fix the car with them. But for me everything is not so clear.

And especially in case like this, as there is so much wiring that is not original, it is really difficult.  I have checked the earth points that I have found. It means: E1, E2, E7 and E6.

E1 is the ground for battery. OK. But in that Place of E2 there was just the ground wire of those extra high beams that the previous owner had connected very simply:

Because they were not fog lights but extra full beams, they were switched on the same time as the ordinary full beams. So, there was no separate switch, he had taken the plus straight from battery thru a relay and connected the big lights with original full beams with a robber connector from the white wire that goes to 56a pin on the left side of the combi switch. And the black earth wire was placed in the point where the E2 should be located. So, because the lights get ground also now, the E2 must be somewhere behind the air filter, which in this MPI model is located as in VW:s generally, right behind the right front light light system. E7 is easy to find and it is in condition. Also E6 is checked.

What is left are: E3, E4, of course E5 that is easy to locate, but I have not checked it yet, though the column was already open once. It is easy to open without removing steer wheel. And E8 is also unknown to me. (sorry, if my text is not quite ok, I´ve still got fever a bit).

But, as I said: the mess with those fog lights has its origin from more than 2 years ago from an owner to whom I can´t call. And I doubt that it is not the thing causing these problems.

Now I finally am able to send you some photos as I got the right battery for my smaller camera. This first one is just to show that all the four switches are accessable now.

And here is another picture with just two simple questions. I must say I wrote wrong. 3.Should be: Sidelights signal light worked as it should work about 30 minutes. No more.

But after all that mess, it seems that I have finally found something essential in this Basic issue!

I removed the clove box and its deck to get better access for my eyes, hands and camera. And here I found a relay that I really don´t know, what is that for. I upload at first a pic of the relay and its wires. Two of them go to fuse box. The orange and the red one.

[JussiG7]

And here comes the last photo this time.

 

Now we have here a real fault that is not directly visible. But as I cut out the robber contactor here, it was obvious that this wiring was damaged. The robber contactor had cut half of the copper filaments of the red wire. 

And the socket was a little bit broken, too. It has had totally 10 places, but the fifth on the right side had broken totally. No symptoms of burning, but it´s gone, however.

I suppose that the orange wire has originally gone to that 5th hole and after the damage of the socket the orange wire has been connected wit the red wire. And it has worked for years.

 

Till I reached this phase, the sun had gone and it was below 0C, that means freezing point. So I quickly made a better connection with that red and orange together.

 

And the first time the normal headlights began to function. But I had that joy only about half an hour. As I got the car able to drive in 20mins and had driven 10 mins towards the local 24h service station to buy something to eat, the lights turned off in a second. So, the situation became almost the same as it had been, but a bit worse:

The right rear light did not work at all (the fog light worked). And the right sidelight was also gone. But I made it to the 24h station and back. Then it was freezing cold ans about 01.00 am, so I was satisfied to get back home. And now I am going out to see, if I can make better connections replace a fuse etc.

 

But if there is a possibility to a. get info about that relay (it is not buzzer relay) b. get a wiring map about that red socket (also those about the others are welcome), I would be very grateful.

 

I have said earlier: "I am sick and tired (to do something)." That is the problem also now. But I would like to emphasize that I am all the time sick and tired litterally, because of my rheumatics. If I don´t take enough medicines, I´m sick and have evil pain in many joints. If I use medicines, I am tired. So it is the whole time a question of walking a tightrope...

 

And in almost no case it is not a question of attitude, it is a question of health. With the best greetings I send this last photo. M.V.H. JussiG

 

[RicardoM]

Very good photos.

So those were not in fact fog lights, but extra projectors... installed in a totally amateurish way. Now things are a little clearer.
 
For the second photo:
1. The "box A" is the immobilizer. The "box B" is the central locking control unit.
2. Make that a separate topic after you read this topic to familiarize yourself with the system. The only difference is that on your car the fuel sender has only 2 pins and has a different connector.
3. The side lights switch for cars with DRL has to make many contacts inside and so it is more probable to fail.

 

For the 3rd photo:

You have the wiring diagram and I will add below a new photo showing the numbering of those coloured connectors above the relays. Restore the wiring accordingly. Everything will work as it should after that.

 

[RicardoM]

One more thing. Remove the front fog relay (bottom row, 2nd from the left). You don't need it. It can only mess things up while you are checking the wiring.

[JussiG7]

Thanks  once again !

 

Things are getting clearer step by step, brick by brick. The photo with those coloured connectors with the letters to each connector and especially the numbers of each and every wire are exellent !!!

 

1. And to know the meaning of those boxes help,too. I don´t like immobilizers, but I am lucky to have 2 keys with a chip inside. And the central locking works, too.

 

2.The fuel gauge is the smallest problem for me. I just mentioned it as a sign meaning that there may be something wrong inside the instrument panel. The sidelights signal light worked about 30 minutes, then it disappeared again. And for a while there came also the signal light from the front fog lights. All those things tell me that there may be an issue inside the panel.

 

3.The sidelights switch with DRL is really rather complicated, but maybe you did not notice my writing above that photo as I told that the signal light of the sidelights switch worked 30mins,

but the sidelight  switch has been working all the time. Actually, I have got four 8-pin switches, all in a good condition, if I count the two hazard warning lights to that total number.

 

Yes, I am trying all the time to restore that original wiring. But it is not so easy, because of those changes that previous owners have made. It is difficult to know what is original and what not.

 

And one was the question of that mysterious 4-pin relay in the clove box. And the wiring that goes down from it (those orange and red wires). That orange had that robber contactor to the red one. And it had cut off half of the copper filaments from the red wire. And as I quickly fixed it, ALL the lights worked well about 30mins. But after that they went off. And this time the automatics is working with that exeption that the right rear light does not work at all. 

 

But it is actually no problem of yours, you have done so much for me that I must say: Thank You Very Much :sun: 

 

Best Recards, JussiG

[RicardoM]

Things are getting clearer step by step, brick by brick.

You are very close from solving the problem.

 

The photo with those coloured connectors with the letters to each connector and especially the numbers of each and every wire are exellent !!!

Now you cand 'read' the wiring like a pro.

2.The fuel gauge is the smallest problem for me. I just mentioned it as a sign meaning that there may be something wrong inside the instrument panel. The sidelights signal light worked about 30 minutes, then it disappeared again. And for a while there came also the signal light from the front fog lights. All those things tell me that there may be an issue inside the panel.

It could be. Cold joints, or perhaps light bulbs not making good contact. But I suggest leaving any issue with instrument cluster for last. Repair the high beam issue first.

 

3.The sidelights switch with DRL is really rather complicated, but maybe you did not notice my writing above that photo as I told that the signal light of the sidelights switch worked 30mins, but the sidelight  switch has been working all the time. Actually, I have got four 8-pin switches, all in a good condition, if I count the two hazard warning lights to that total number.

I didn't miss that part but I can't say anything about it. For now I blame all electrical problems on the intervention of previous owner on the wiring. Those blue splice connectors ('robbers') make my skin curl... because they cut strands of wire resulting in a lousy contact for high current loads.

 

Yes, I am trying all the time to restore that original wiring. But it is not so easy, because of those changes that previous owners have made. It is difficult to know what is original and what not.

Actually it's easy to spot the difference. Original wiring is wrapped in black textile tape.

 

And one was the question of that mysterious 4-pin relay in the clove box. And the wiring that goes down from it (those orange and red wires). That orange had that robber contactor to the red one. And it had cut off half of the copper filaments from the red wire. And as I quickly fixed it, ALL the lights worked well about 30mins. But after that they went off. And this time the automatics is working with that exeption that the right rear light does not work at all. 

You see? Exactly as I've mentioned above.

I have identified for you where are connected those wire that went to 'mystery' relay in the glove box. Get rid of those blue splice-connectors and restore the entire section of original wires. Cut them where they were 'stabbed', strip 10 mm of insulation, insert on one wire a heat-shrink tube, solder the wires, cover the solder with the tube and shrink it.

 

Follow the other two wires of that relay and repair any splice in a similar fashion. If not sure, take photos.

 

Edited 23 April, 2016 by RicardoM

[JussiG7]

Good Morning!

 

I have worked the day with the car and the night with photos. It´s now  05.10 a.m. in Finland and I am going to sleep. But maybe I am able to write something about Saturday.

 

One guy from our own Skodapower- site recognized that relay and its meaning.

 

It is another thing that you surely don´t need in Dominican Republic   The relay belongs to the system of the seat heaters, and has been adjusted afterwards by a Finnish importer

 

And what´s more; the guy has had the same kind of robber connectors in his own Felicia !!! So, it seems that all the Felicias with seat warmers may have two robber connectors in their wiring systems.

 

Here is one photo to describe the situation. Hard to get my eyes to stay open.

 

[RicardoM]

Skoda never did such unprofessional job. An on/off switch and factory wiring harness had been installed in central dashboard, near the other 4 switches. Heated front seats with heat regulators had been mounted on GLX cars (cars with extra equipment) that have a central console. Two separate electronic heating adjusters had been mounted on that central console. Moreover, the circuit is not using a generic relay tossed in the glove box but it's using a cut-off relay (part number 6U0963141) with a special bracket for mounting.

 

My guess is there are many Felicia LXi in Finland that had not heated seats and it was retrofitted in local garages by the same team of 'experts' much like they retrofit car alarms or audio systems..

 

 

Edited 24 April, 2016 by RicardoM

[MotorsportFinland]

Skoda never did such unprofessional job. An on/off switch and factory wiring harness had been installed in central dashboard, near the other 4 switches. Heated front seats with heat regulators had been mounted on GLX cars (cars with extra equipment) that have a central console. Two separate electronic heating adjusters had been mounted on that central console. Moreover, the circuit is not using a generic relay tossed in the glove box but it's using a cut-off relay (part number 6U0963141) with a special bracket for mounting.

 

My guess is there are many Felicia LXi in Finland that had not heated seats and it was retrofitted in local garages by the same team of 'experts' much like they retrofit car alarms or audio systems..

 

Unfortunately this expert retrofitment is done by finnish importer Helkama-Auto Oy..

[RicardoM]

Unfortunately for who?

[JussiG7]

Good afternoon !

 

I don´t know much about the Skoda- history, but I quess that Felicia II was the last make that in Finland was categorized to East Car- class. It means, it was sold not so much and the importer was different from the one(s) nowadays. And the "retrofitments" were done rather negligently, because it was "just another east-car in the row". And cheep, too.

 

Here in Kouvola the previous importer was Helkama-Auto Ltd, and now it is Auto-Suni Ltd (though it should be an importer of the VAG- cars, that surprises me).

The real breakthrough of the "Western Skoda" came with the new Octavias and Fabias, that are adjusted "better".

 

To me all that stuff in my car (seat heaters, electric mirrors, immobilizer, central locking etc.) is just a burden. Because I like older cars and because the climate here is very difficult (cold, humidy, darkness, salt on the highways that makes cars rusty etc), the future of the cars full of electricity seems very ominous.

 

As I said, I did block the whole circuit of the seat warmers  (they are two, might it be the reason for two plus-wires?) . In winter I have a heater for the engine and another for the interior, so also in that meaning it is quite unnecessary. Never have had seat heaters and shall not have. There is an invention called clothes that helps against the cold outside and inside of the car.

 

One thing that can´t understand, is: What is the connective factor between those two terminals (BA/4 , C3), and the light circuits ? In other words, though about 50% of the thick red wire´s filaments were broken, it should have an impact only for the blower motor, not for the lights. That other robber I have not opened yet, but where does the 12V current come and go, if we now ignore the heating system? 

 

Still very tired, but if it stops raining, I shall  make good soldering joints to the both places. But I still wonder, what causes the current not coming to RH sidelight and RH rear light ???

 

Once again thanks a lot, the car is on its way to reach the perfection    

 

[RicardoM]

For the right side and tail light check Fuse 11. Always disconnect negative battery cable when working on electric system.

[JussiG7]

Thanks about that last advice!

Yesterday I used about five fuses in that place number 11. I checked the original one, measured it with ohm-meter and found out that it was in condition. And put it back. No function.

This happened five times with five different fuses (two were 7.5A, three were 10A). All the fuses were ok. And I pushed them deep enough. 

 

But because of your advice I tried once more: Brand new fuse of 10 amps, measured 0 ohms, pushed it in. And now the sidelight and the rear light began to work.

No idea, why those previous did not work, but now the situation is ok. ALL the lights outdoors work well. The signal light problem exists, but I suppose it is a very little problem.

I even checked the wire in BC/3, but there was nothing wrong in it.  But now that little issue is gone and I could concentrate in making good tin joints, if the weather were better.

 

But it is windy, and showers of rain and hail follow each other, so I have to just wait until they are over (maybe tomorrow).

That´s why I have to ask you:   What is that heat-shrink tube that you talk about?

 

Get rid of those blue splice-connectors and restore the entire section of original wires. Cut them where they were 'stabbed', strip 10 mm of insulation, insert on one wire a heat-shrink tube, solder the wires, cover the solder with the tube and shrink it.

[RicardoM]

 What is that heat-shrink tube that you talk about?

 

[RicardoM]

The black wire missing from connector BA/2 is for the rear window heater. From BA/2 the wire goes to a 6-pin connector located at the base of A pillar. If that corner of connector is broken, it is very probable it was used BC/7 or BC/9 instead. They are connected together to BA/2 inside relay box. I don't have a good view of al wires in your photos to be sure.

 

All those splice-connectors put in a hurry by the importer might not be related to initial main beams problem. I thought the relay tossed in the glove box is for those extra projectors. Anyways, disconnect any unused electrical circuits. I totally agree there are some fancy devices on cars made for very lazy persons. My favourite is by far the electric motors for the mirrors I mean, how often youu need to adjust those f-ing mirrors and most of all how lazy has someone to be to not do it by hand?? So yeah...

 

Just to see if I got it right, all headlight beams work well now? Both in DRL mode and night mode? And the only thing still not working are the side light, low beam, and high beam indicators? What about the backlights for instrument cluster?

[JussiG7]

Thanks about the heat shrink- video!  (I suppose I would also need a headshrinker- video)

 

That system seems very good for some separate wires, but warming a wire among about 100 other wires with any kind of fire seems dangerous, especially as all the wires coming to fuse box are so short. I mean; though I would disconnect all the sockets and try to turn them aside,  they remain so close to that  broken wire, that I´d rather  try to solve the problem some other way.

 

But now my head seems to wake up. Of course, if I disconnect the broken wires from their connectors, I may be able to draw them "to the open air" so, that they can be repaired safely.

 

About that black wire: I shall check those BC/7 and BC/9 that you mentioned. But because the rear window heater has worked well, also that is not so important right now.

 

The relay for those extra projectors was located inside the engine compartment, actually on a crossbar that goes from one shock absorber to another, so it was very visible, indeed.

 

BTW This car has got also the electric motors for the mirrors. And also they do not work. But  they seem to be originally adjusted by Skoda, I am not 100% sure

 

 

Just to see if I got it right, all headlight beams work well now? Both in DRL mode and night mode? And the only thing still not working are the side light, low beam, and high beam indicators? What about the backlights for instrument cluster?

 

Yes! All the headlight beams work well now, both in DRL mode and night mode. (at least they worked well last night, today I have not been outdoors yet)

 

And about the signal lights:

1. Now the rear fog lights and their signal light work undependent from the position of the front fog light switch position. (but ffl- installing seems not original, because its wires have no textile tape around them.

2. High beam indicator has been working all the time. It was visible in flash position. And now it is visible also with high beams on all the time.

3. Also the the indicator light of the low beams has been working all the time. And the low beams have been working all the time (at first in DRL-mode, now also in the night mode).

4. But the sidelights indicator light has been dark almost all the time. Only the 30mins that I mentioned, it was working. Maybe bad contact maybe something else. But it worked as I bought the car about one month ago.

 

5. And the backlights of the instrument cluster work as they have been working all the time: In the DRL-mode no lights, in the night mode all the backlights work well. I do not know if it is a fault or  a feature....

 

But now it stopped raining, and the sun begins to shine. As the asphalt dries up, I shall begin the  soldering job in a way or another.

 

Good Morning, here it is 11.50 a.m.

Edited 25 April, 2016 by JussiG7

[JussiG7]

What a day!

 

I had to do shoppings for a neighbor and help an invalid person who was "betrayed" by a bank automatic machine etc. etc.

 

But finally I got those two wires disconneted from the robber connectors and the soldering job done as well as it is possible for me.

That means not  pro- work  with heat-shrink, but it means strong joints with tin, and all the strands of the wires reconnected so that there should not be "lousy contacts for high current loads".

 

After I got that soldering job done I went for a test drive and found out that the night mode did not work. But I found the reason: The BA/2- connector seemed to be on its place, but because of the damaged edge it loosens very easily as the box is hanging free, kept only by the connectors.

So, after fixing it all the lights began to work as I did tell yesterday. 

 

This is a historical day: After three weeks of job I finally dare to close the fuse box and put the instrumental panel back with screws.

 

It does not mean that the whole case would be over and closed (because the initial reason for the lights to disappear is not clear) but the car is now able to serve me going to gigs and to watch the birds and even might I dare to take other people with me. So, let me be happy even for a while, dear Felicia ?

 

The sun went down and I´ll go to finish the job   It´s  21.25 now

[RicardoM]

That is good news Enjoy the car.

The indicator bulb for the sideligtts is not making good contact (rotate it to seat better) or it died eventually.

Both DRL and night modes are working as they should.

 

As for the initial cause for the main beam failure, I put it on a combination of unproffesional wiring plus bad contacts of connectors in the relay panel. I hope you know that  they have a locking sliding bar...

[Yoss]

I've been following this thread for the last week or so and I'm very pleased the perseverance has paid off. I didn't understand a lot of it but there was an awful lot of detailed information going both ways. Well done to both of you.

I was wondering if either of you ever sleep? I don't know the time difference between Finland and the Dominican Republic (about 7 hours at a guess) but you both seem to be posting at all times of the day and night by UK time!

I hope you can start enjoying the car now.

[RicardoM]

This topic has a big moral: previous unprofessional, undocumented interventions on original wiring of the car make fault diagnosis very difficult. Too often people we pay to retrofit car alarms, audio systems, central lockings, extra lights, or any other optional equipment(s) have no access to original wiring diagrams of the car. They run extra wires connected directly to the battery, car chassis or they splice existing wires with a total disregard for basic electricity rules, safety, and aspect. Their best friend is the electric tape that covers all kinds of mistakes. They don't offer a documentation of new wiring making future diagnosis a nightmare. You all saw what jungle of wires can be behind the dashboard. They install relays on weird locations, exposed to elements (like Jussi found on the strut bar). Very often such third-party installations come to haunt the owner in form of overnight battery discharge, weird electric faults or even fire...

 

The positive side of the topic is that anything can be fixed with knowledge, patience, and determination. If that means losing some sleep... it is what it is.