Went to put the oven on this evening and there was a muted bang and flash from the vicinity of the oven chamber and, after that the oven refused to heat, though the  fan  and adjacent grill-element  still work.

 

I take it that the main oven element has blown.

 

Although the oven is 31 years old its still in good nick and I'd like to keep it going temporarily till I can get round to giving the whole kitchen a make-over in 2 or 3 years time. So, I was thinking replacing the element which come in at anything between £15 and £60, depending where you buy them. A lot cheaper than buying a new oven @ minimum of £110 upwards,  Only problem is I can't find any listing for the Italian manufacturer - Olmar S.P.A. and whilst there are plenty of on-line sellers of oven elements, none of their parts listings include this manufacturer.

 

I think the oven element is rated at 1.5 Kw and the grill element is 2 Kw. If I disassemble same (which I understand is an easy task, not requiring the attention of a tradesman) will I find the ratings marked on the elements ?

 

Is there a general replacement (Rather than proprietry) that will do the job ?

 

The oven is directly wired to a 15 amp wall switched socket in the way that older style cookers were and it is fused @ 30 amps in the household consumer unit.

 

The oven itself is one of these 60cm cube, single chamber, under-the-worktop jobs.

 

Nick

Edited 19 April, 201610 yr by Clunkclick

I have been told that pretty much all fan oven elements come from one of two Chinese manufacturers. So long as the ratings and diameter match, them you should be OK. They do tend to go with a bang. If you remove the old element to verify this -you'll probably find that it has a section missing where it popped and it will have a couple of spade connectors. Check that the wiring and spades are OK before replacing the element, because if they are damaged they still need replacing as well. Ratings are not usually on the element but on a plack on the oven somewhere -probably on the back or somewhere invonvenient.

Cheers. I'll take a look tomorrow.

 

In the absence of inscriptions on the casing, then the best I can do is match the element pattern and an estimate of the rating to the photos on the suppliers site.

 

At those prices, I'm not too worried if it goes bang in hurry again.

 

Nick

I doubt if the Chinese were making elements 30+ years ago.

 

Good news, elements do tend to be standard across a wide range of ovens, and can be "repurposed" (bent) to a certain extent; it is a case of finding someone with a selection to look over, after getting the old one out to have a good look at it.

 

Bad news, it is Italian, and my experience of Italian kit is that they build it arse-backwards.

Just out of interest, are the Big Red Switches for cookers fused ? If so what value ? On mine, there's no visible fuse socket on the surface of the switch.

 

 

Nick

Edited 20 April, 201610 yr by Clunkclick

Just out of interest, are the Big Red Switches for cookers fused ? If so what value ? On mine, there's no visible fuse socket on the surface of the switch.

 

 

Nick

 

Cookers are usually on their own circuit so the fuse will be on the main fuse board.

Just out of interest, are the Big Red Switches for cookers fused ? If so what value ? On mine, there's no visible fuse socket on the surface of the switch.

 

 

Nick

It totally depends on the house and how it was wired. but they are not normally fused at the red switch as they would still be require a fuse at the other end of the cable anyway to protect the cable and there is no point in fusing it twice unless you change the size of cable to a smaller cross section

 

A cooker circuit is generally fused at 40 amps so it can power a cooker and hobs.

 

If it has a modern consumer unit it will probably have a 40 amp MCB, or if its a bit older it will have a wire fuse. Sometimes it may be fused seperately in a box next to the consumer unit.

Edited 20 April, 201610 yr by SuperbTWM

eSpares

 

cheap parts for every white good.

 

just type in the product number - e.g Zanussi ZCM 875

 

I use them every time.

Although they don't list olmar but ofmar.

 

Looking at ebay Italy for your parts,  Olmar / Ariston oven element came up.

Although they don't list olmar but ofmar.

 

Looking at ebay Italy for your parts,  Olmar / Ariston oven element came up.

Nice one. I'll check it out. I was looking at the Candy's, but none match.

I started on it an hour ago. Got the door off and the backplate covering the fan in 5 mins. The back end looks in very good condition.

But, the two phillips screws holding the element to the rear oven surface are immovable. I've already broken a phillips head in a socket trying to rotate one. So now I'm trying 3-in-1 penetrating oil and a pin hammer to loosen things up. Next stop perhaps a paint-stripper heater and an impact driver. Failing that I'll have to drill 'em out.

 

Nick

Piccy:-

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/narobs/26454755562/in/dateposted-friend/

 

 

Measurements don't correspond with Ariston elements  @ 1.5-1.6Kw. I'll try ofmar.

 

 

Nick

It totally depends on the house and how it was wired. but they are not normally fused at the red switch as they would still be require a fuse at the other end of the cable anyway to protect the cable and there is no point in fusing it twice unless you change the size of cable to a smaller cross section

 

A cooker circuit is generally fused at 40 amps so it can power a cooker and hobs.

 

If it has a modern consumer unit it will probably have a 40 amp MCB, or if its a bit older it will have a wire fuse. Sometimes it may be fused seperately in a box next to the consumer unit.

 

No, they do not have a fuse for the cooker outlet in the box, although if there is also a 13Amp socket as part of the box, THAT sometimes is fused.. As above, the cooker should be on its own fuse/MCB in the consumer unit; although 40Amp is standard, some are now 60Amp - due to the extra power requirements of Induction hobs.

No, they do not have a fuse for the cooker outlet in the box, although if there is also a 13Amp socket as part of the box, THAT sometimes is fused.. As above, the cooker should be on its own fuse/MCB in the consumer unit; although 40Amp is standard, some are now 60Amp - due to the extra power requirements of Induction hobs.

That's what I said

That's what I said

 

Not quite; I wanted to make sure he wasnt confused by a possible marked fuse for any 13A socket included in the cooker switch; there are a number of different Cooker switch designs out there, not all of them are the same inside.

 

If his house was once owned by an old sparky, he could have any sort of weird stuff fitted; the "Nail in a fuse" story isnt a myth.

 

I once came across a 12V circuit board being run on 240v mains and a 10W RESISTER to remove the excess 228V - cos the guy was too tight to buy a replacement transformer for it.

Not quite; I wanted to make sure he wasnt confused by a possible marked fuse for any 13A socket included in the cooker switch; there are a number of different Cooker switch designs out there, not all of them are the same inside.

 

If his house was once owned by an old sparky, he could have any sort of weird stuff fitted; the "Nail in a fuse" story isnt a myth.

 

I once came across a 12V circuit board being run on 240v mains and a 10W RESISTER to remove the excess 228V - cos the guy was too tight to buy a replacement transformer for it.

Yea I see what your saying.

 

Its unbelievable the amount of bodging that goes on. yesterday I was reinforcing one of my joists that had about 3/4 of its depth notched out for a shower trap that was once there. I'm surprised the floor didn't cave in.

http://www.atelitalia.com/search.php?c1_selected=01&c2_selected=38&marchio=OLMAR&n=〈=eng

 

Closest I can get to it...

 

Many similar looking beasties on Amazon though. Perhaps a part number might match.

 

Found an Olmar.com - but on first sight they seem "industrial".

In my experience (twice) my oven element failing did not make a bang at all. It just burnt out quietly and then stopped working.

 

My first replacement cost about £15, but my next (same oven) one cost £26, both from Nottingham Electrical Services / Trevor Holmes.

I think he has closed business now though.

There used to be a contractors shop in Worcester that stocked loads of different cooker elements - but I havent there for so long, I am hazy about where it was/is.

 

I used to go bulk buying for work - Cosworth used to bodge them to make heated tubes for molten aluminium to flow up into an engine mold; the damn things used to carp-out after less than a week, so we used to spend much of our spare time carefully bending new ones.

 

Bad news, it is Italian, and my experience of Italian kit is that they build it arse-backwards.

My late dad & Uncle ( ex WW2 Tank driver) had that opinion of Italian kit, especially tanks, where uncle swore blind the ones he'd seen in Africa had four reverse gears and one forward( in case they were attacked from behind).

My late dad & Uncle ( ex WW2 Tank driver) had that opinion of Italian kit, especially tanks, where uncle swore blind the ones he'd seen in Africa had four reverse gears and one forward( in case they were attacked from behind).

 

No. no, no; the 4 reverse gears were so they could retreat faster.

 

I have plenty of first hand experience of Italian kit, starting from a school ski trip when I was 12.

 

The bathroom in the hotel room shared a common drain for the sink and shower, a drain hole set into the tiled floor.

 

The drain was raised up 1" above floor level, so every time you had a shower the apartment flooded.

 

The motors for the local cable car were situated at the TOP of the mountain; so every morning the cable car crew had to drive 30 miles around the mountain to the Austrian side, take THEIR cable car to the top of the mountain, then drive a snowcat across to the Italian lift and start the motors (and the reverse every evening).

 

While working as a sparky - carrying out PAT surveys, I came across some Italian "light boxes" in the publishing department that all failed the test with no Earth. Well, there was an earth cable, and it terminated inside the box at a sturdy copper binding post - but the post was bolted into the backplate - which was made of hardboard.

 

As an apprentice sparky, a 600V, 100A per phase, 3 phase Italian gantry crane - the fuses were on the "live" side of the (Italian designed), isolation switch, so they had to get the local substation shut down to make the crane safe when it needed to be isolated.

 

Of course being a 1st year apprentice, I didnt notice this until AFTER I had unbolted and removed the fuses!!! (The guy I was working with went white as a sheet when he saw).

As said, there's no fuse in the BRS, just a 30 amp wire fuse in the consumer unit - both of which were pulled before starting any work.

 

One of the element suppliers I canvassed has come up with a 2.3Kw Whirlpool element, which from the photograph looks exactly the same pattern as the existing unit and although the diameter of the element loop is slightly less than the existing one,the critical dimension, the fixing bracket is exactly the same length and the tag positions are almost the same. So, that's a possibility.

 

Had a hell of a job getting the second self-tapper out of the bracket that secures the  element to the back case of the oven. It had welded to the case - probably aided by previous applications of alkali based oven cleaning preparations.  Using conventional unscrewing methods, the head on the Phillips screw quickly disintegrated and even after soaking it overnight in releasing fluid, gingerly tapping it with a pin hammer, and then resorting to a manual impact driver (Which I eventually discovered was broken and wasn't turning), It wouldn't release and turn. So I had to drill it out, leaving the shank still embedded in a clip attached to the back of the case.

 

Applying the multimeter to the positive and neutral on the element, there was no circuit. Similarly, shorting out each of the supply terminals in turn to the earth connector on the bracket produced no circuit. So I concluded that the wire in the element had just separated without puncturing the insulation and earthing to the element casing.

 

No problem disconnecting the wires at the back (Positive, earth and neutral) but I noticed that the neutral was just an assemblage  bare braided wires. So there's a  question of whether that is how it should be or whether the flash and the bang blew the insulation off. And then the further question as to whether any of the connected components were damaged.

 

 

At this point I started thinking whether it might be a better idea to get a new unit. There are other issues with the existing unit, a leaky and ill-fitting oven door, one of the circuits in the grill has gone, as has the light.

 

Only one impediment to that proposition. When I took the oven out of the enclosure I discovered it was a "Short-form" non-standard (By todays standards). Its only a 40 litre oven, most  small ovens today start at 55 Litres. So that, whilst the height and the width met the current standards of 60Cm x 60 Cm,  the depth, including the fascia, is only 50 Cm (47 Cm without the fascia). And there's a reason for this, in that even though the enclosure has a standard depth of 60Cm, the gas supply piping to the hob is positioned forward of the back wall by about 7 CM.

 

Most of the new ovens have a depth of  50 CM plus - the smallest I could find it was 54.5 CM - but the largest depth that the enclosure can accommodate with the gas pipe in its current position and the back of the unit flush with the gas pipe (Not a good idea) is 53 CM. So a new oven is a non-starter without re-positioning the gas pipe and that's a Gas certified fitter job nowadays.

 

The other thing I noticed, is that the specification for some of the new units requires that the housing enclosures for the oven are required to be good for temperatures up to 100 C . Shouldn't be a problem, as the existing housing's laminate surface, once cleaned, was free of scorching and burning.

 

So, my attention is now back on seeing if the existing unit can be satisfactorily repaired. So the case to the oven will be taken off and the internals cleaned and tested to see if that is feasible.

 

To top that, I just got a "Don't be beastly to the receptionist letter" from the clearly overworked GP Practice manager and the slight swelling on the Lymph in my left groin have decided to enlarge for the MayDay Bank Holiday. Plus I've got a sore-throat i.e. same symptoms as pre-chemo. Give that a week, if it doesn't go, I'm back up the fun palace. It never kjittening rains, it pours, eh ?

 

Nick

 

 

http://www.atelitalia.com/search.php?c1_selected=01&c2_selected=38&marchio=OLMAR&n=〈=eng

 

Closest I can get to it...

 

Many similar looking beasties on Amazon though. Perhaps a part number might match.

 

Found an Olmar.com - but on first sight they seem "industrial".

Yeah. I saw that. Looks like they've moved out of domestic ovens into industrial ovens and autoclaves . . . . help !!!

 

Nick

I have plenty of first hand experience of Italian kit, starting from a school ski trip when I was 12.

 

The motors for the local cable car were situated at the TOP of the mountain; so every morning the cable car crew had to drive 30 miles around the mountain to the Austrian side, take THEIR cable car to the top of the mountain, then drive a snowcat across to the Italian lift and start the motors (and the reverse every evening).

 

Cool sounding job, in more ways than one, Lol.

Possible solution.

 

All the gas ovens appear to have a significantly reduced depth requirement circa 43 Cm upwards.(Why, you ask, intuitively you would think the reverse is true)That would easily fit without the need to move the gas pipe.. And that's gas ovens with an electric grill.

 

But they are £100 more expensive than the electric equivalents.

 

There's a few on AO that would fit and they do a fitting service inclusive.

 

Optimistically, I'm thinking that all that's required is the fitting of a T-piece in the gas supply and a flexible hose - surely the householder can do that ?

The electric grill can be wired back into the existing 30 amp junction box.

 

Question is could the existing 15mm gas pipe supply enough for both a gas oven and the hob simultaneously - seem to recall in the old days that the flexible connectors to free-standing ovens were one inchers.

 

Nick

 

In my experience (twice) my oven element failing did not make a bang at all. It just burnt out quietly and then stopped working.

 

My first replacement cost about £15, but my next (same oven) one cost £26, both from Nottingham Electrical Services / Trevor Holmes.

I think he has closed business now though.

 

I've had 2 go.... Though both were grills rather than the oven.

 

1st one explained where "the spare bolt" came from after unpacking the cooker supplied by some rellies. Bolt had fallen out as we were manhandling it. (It held one of the grill elements in place). Over time it moved until the supply lead touched the cooker frame.... Supplying enough sparks to set light to the bacon fat in the grill pan and eventually blowing the cooker circuit fuse in the consumer unit. Pan fire was thankfully extinguished by me leaping backwards with the grill pan in hand. Quite what I'd have done if it hadn't gone out I dunno.

 

2nd one scared the total crap out of me. Again, more bacon sizzling away but the element flawed. Some fat spat up at it and got into cracked sheathing (I think). I was buttering toast right alongside the cooker when there was an almighty BRRRRRRRMMMPH! noise from the cooker and a quantity of smoke shot out of the oven door. Again, the cooker fuse blew in the consumer unit.... I've now switched to gas.