EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[@Lee]

38 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

I think you live a sheltered life of plenty....

 

 

Yep, so full of plenty. That's why I still buy a few lucky dips each week.

I've even had a period of being homeless a number of years ago because my life's been so full of plenty.

I had to use food banks when I was out of work because my life's so full of plenty.

I'm full time employed now, pay my rent and council tax, car things and everything else that costs in life leaves me so full of plenty that I couldn't even go out and buy a pair of Levi's without having to really think about it first because my life is so full of plenty.

[Ootohere]

Embrace the BREXIT then, life is too short to worry yourself to death.

 

The Donald says a UK-US trade deals to happen quickly.  So like Dr Pepper ads asked, 'What is the worst that can happen?'

 

Billions to lease those nuclear deterrents and do as he says not as he does.

Edited 8 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[trundlenut]

2 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

Quick google looks like there are around 675,000 registered nurses in the UK and 57,000 are EU nurses.

Many will be from elsewhere around the world.

 

Lots of nursing is Bank Nurses, and Agency etc.

Time now that the NHS in the 4 countries of the UK get on with employing enough nurses on a permanent basis at proper rates and stop paying out double and treble to agencies to have nurses working for the NHS then also shifts as Bank / Agency nurses.

 

What is needed is more young people training and qualifying then actually getting jobs in the NHS with a proper Work -Life - Balance and at the end of the month some balance in their banks.

How come Midwifes keep getting educated, trained, qualified and then can not get jobs but there are shortages of Mid-wifes, 

and there are Mid-wifes that were full time and retired or left the job back doing part-time jobs.

Same with doctors that left the NHS in many specialist parts of the NHS.

(Same with Teachers actually, Trained, Qualified, worked for years, back working part time and new qualified teachers can not get jobs.)

 

So is the UK population going to be increasing or decreasing after BREXIT, are people leaving the country, and are those that are born since 2000 really going to live as long as those still alive now that were born pre WW2 and had sensible diets for the past 80 years, or at least for the early part of their lives?

We just do not and have not trained enough doctors and nurses for years, so we are dependent on importing them. 

 

We don't have enough young people, we aren't creating them quick enough, so we need to import them. Its going to get worse before it gets better, if it gets better. We rely on the fact that immigrants have more kids thus boosting the birth rate, less immigrants means that doesn't happen. 

 

It's a common problem and why Germany is importing lots of people and why Russia's population is declining. 

[@Lee]

4 minutes ago, trundlenut said:

We just do not and have not trained enough doctors and nurses for years, so we are dependent on importing them. 

 

We don't have enough young people, we aren't creating them quick enough, so we need to import them. Its going to get worse before it gets better, if it gets better. We rely on the fact that immigrants have more kids thus boosting the birth rate, less immigrants means that doesn't happen. 

 

It's a common problem and why Germany is importing lots of people and why Russia's population is declining. 

Make love not war the saying goes. Obviously we've been doing it wrong lol

[Ootohere]

We had enough Young People that the past 3 or 4 governments wanting to go to University for Higher Education and they are not able to get jobs, 

the Student Loan Debts have been sold to companies just like bad debts are to off load them and Workers that pay taxes are paying the cost 

of the debts.

 

Then there are those the Tax Payers subsidised in their Training once in the NHS that bogged off out the UK but got a vote in the EU Referendum.

 

Plenty unemployed in the UK, and plenty un-employable and not prepared to be employed in menial employment, or care services, or manual labour. 

Then people now have to work to 68 or older and take up jobs that could be done by the millions of young un-employed.

 

Dish out Donkey Jackets, hi-viz vests and work footwear and transport young unemployed to work places and have the elderly prepared to work as supervisors, 

trainers etc.

 

Remember Gordon Brown MP when running the Treasury /UK economy was going to have Mothers working when children were old enough, child minding to allow others to work etc,  being interviewed and then expected to get jobs.

 

 

Edited 8 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[trundlenut]

45 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

We had enough Young People that the past 3 or 4 governments wanting to go to University for Higher Education and they are not able to get jobs, 

the Student Loan Debts have been sold to companies just like bad debts are to off load them and Workers that pay taxes are paying the cost 

of the debts.

 

Then there are those the Tax Payers subsidised in their Training once in the NHS that bogged off out the UK but got a vote in the EU Referendum.

 

Plenty unemployed in the UK, and plenty un-employable and not prepared to be employed in menial employment, or care services, or manual labour. 

Then people now have to work to 68 or older and take up jobs that could be done by the millions of young un-employed.

 

Dish out Donkey Jackets, hi-viz vests and work footwear and transport young unemployed to work places and have the elderly prepared to work as supervisors, 

trainers etc.

 

Remember Gordon Brown MP when running the Treasury /UK economy was going to have Mothers working when children were old enough, child minding to allow others to work etc,  being interviewed and then expected to get jobs.

 

 

There are not not millions of unemployed young people. 

[@Lee]

Unemployment is currently at ~ 4.6%. Latest article I can find quickly (from 2014) shows that ~ 30% of 18-24 year olds were unemployed.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/feb/05/unemployment-statistics-age-divide-recession

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment

 

Whichever way you cut it, it aint millions

George, perhaps you could be drafted in to do some work? False legs make good hoes I hear.

[Ootohere]

UK Statistics might show the unemployed between 17 & 24 as being 600,000 or so, but then the UK does not even know how many do not claim benefits, 

or are at it in the grey economy, crime, organised crime, or just vegging out in houses being supported by others.

 

The UK Government do not know the population of the UK or want to admit knowing it.

 

68 UK Jobs Centres being closed by the DWP

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-40511907 

 

Are the numbers registered as Drug Addicts, and Alcoholics, and on sick lines counted as Unemployed because thewy do not even have to appear at Job Centres anymore and many many have never ever held jobs for decades since reaching school age.

http://gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rate 

Edited 8 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[@Lee]

You should get your gall bladder removed, George.

[Ootohere]

On the NHS? 

Or will i just go private?

 

Now what happens when you have 15-19 year old NEET figures, and compare to the 17-24 Unemployed figures, 

something not ringing true...

NEET_ Young People Not in Education, Employment or Training - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament.mhtml

 

Showing a few hundred thousand as in Education or Training or in an Apprenticeship say as a shop assistant means nothing if they are then not going to have a job after the course finished because they will not take one that pays the minimum wage for a under 21 year old,

or are still unemployable after education because they were not attending or ever actually learned much like reading and writing and maths.  Lots of young Hairdressers and Social Studies students about.

http://gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates 

Edited 8 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[gadgetman]

4 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

How does this endless speculation effect me, Mr man-in-the-street?

 

Since the Brexit vote things are pretty much the same around here, I earn the same, my house is worth the same, food, bills and petrol costs are about the same.

 

In short, nothings changed.  Apart from a promise that the country has been given to leave a trading group.

You're right, for now little has changed except a lot of talk.

 

However once negotiations do bite and become reality, that's when the average man or woman will learn what brexit truly means.  It's not going to be what was promised, probably not even half of it yet reality is we will be worse off for it.

 

Job loses and hitting people in the pocket will help focus the mind on whether taking back control was really worth it.  For now because nothing has fundamentally changed, leavers are still gleeful, cannot pin down what brexit should be and fail to be honest with the public

[trundlenut]

44 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

UK Statistics might show the unemployed between 17 & 24 as being 600,000 or so, but then the UK does not even know how many do not claim benefits, 

or are at it in the grey economy, crime, organised crime, or just vegging out in houses being supported by others.

 

The UK Government do not know the population of the UK or want to admit knowing it.

 

68 UK Jobs Centres being closed by the DWP

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-40511907 

 

Are the numbers registered as Drug Addicts, and Alcoholics, and on sick lines counted as Unemployed because thewy do not even have to appear at Job Centres anymore and many many have never ever held jobs for decades since reaching school age.

http://gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rate 

So your evidence to support your assertion is an unfounded statement which can't by definition be checked. 

 

Rock on. 

[Ootohere]

Do you mean that there are not millions of young people unemployed as you said?

 

Well those in Education & Training are not unless they have a job as well, then there are the unemployed, so take the Government figures and work out how many have no paid work and pay no PAYE / NI, and if that is not millions then something weird going on.

Edited 8 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[trundlenut]

41 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

On the NHS? 

Or will i just go private?

 

Now what happens when you have 15-19 year old NEET figures, and compare to the 17-24 Unemployed figures, 

something not ringing true...

NEET_ Young People Not in Education, Employment or Training - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament.mhtml

 

Showing a few hundred thousand as in Education or Training or in an Apprenticeship say as a shop assistant means nothing if they are then not going to have a job after the course finished because they will not take one that pays the minimum wage for a under 21 year old,

or are still unemployable after education because they were not attending or ever actually learned much like reading and writing and maths.  Lots of young Hairdressers and Social Studies students about.

http://gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates 

Nope George they do add up, not all neet youngsters are unemployed:

 

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06705

 

[Ootohere]

Of course not all are unemployed, i know plenty on the grip, have known for the past decades people on the grip.

Below the radar, in the black or grey economy. 

Not paying tax or NI, money in hand, all over the country the 4 countries the same thing, and others from the UK living abroad since unemployed parents took them there as children.

Do you not know any?

Edited 8 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[trundlenut]

13 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

Do you mean that there are not millions of young people unemployed as you said?

 

Well those in Education & Training are not unless they have a job as well, then there are the unemployed, so take the Government figures and work out how many have no paid work and pay no PAYE / NI, and if that is not millions then something weird going on.

Why bother educating them then? Rather than wasting massive amounts of time and money we should just put them to work! 

 

A truly inane argument even from you George. Not content with being anti politics, business, Brexit, remain, independence and union you want to add education and the young. I think you have now reached peak anti. 

[Ootohere]

Business & Commerce & Industry is what gives employment and then the Service Industries are required. 

and Government, Banking, Treasury etc. Homes, Energy, Health Care, Education.

Odd that those that have Sir or Lady before their names are often the cause of Pension and Banking Crisis,

Sir Philip Green, Sir Fred Goodwin, Baron Darling and many many others that get the peerages.

There is an issue with Politicians & Ex Politicians and the cronies.

 

Employers and bosses are required and i have no idea were you get me being 'Anti Business comes from'.

Anti Fraud yes, stealing pension funds etc.

Allowing the system to corrupt and being honoured for it is criminal IMO.

 

As to anti BREXIT, that is not me, i am not bothered either way, but since it is coming i can not believe the Re-moaners.

Head in the sand and idiots that think it is not happening and changes are not needed since it is happening.

 

 

Well the point is there are plenty of able bodies to do work  but not all are prepared to and even though there was an education system in the UK for children from 5-16 year old not all are employable.

 

Point being the UK is responsible for the situation it is in now and trillions of debt and it is not the lack of population that meant migrant workers were required,  and truth is that they are not keeping 'British Born' out of work in the UK.

 

The UK has been happy to have workers leaving the UK for a better life and coming and going, and for migrants to arrive, 

and then it seems there are some ignorants in the UK think time for a clear out.

 

PS

Allowing people to leave school at 15 & 16 to work or take courses allowing them to train and work was OK, if they were plonking school at least they were then doing something and earning by being officially allowed to leave. I did that as the school allowed us to try different jobs and if the employer wanted us we could start with them.

YTS & YOP's was a con though as you would know if ever involved with it.

 

Paying different rates to people a few years difference in age doing identical jobs is a reason many are not interesting in the low paid jobs.

Edited 8 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Ryeman]

I understand there is an upside - the fishing industry is happy.

Fish exports will save Britain.......so there!

[@Lee]

4 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

I understand there is an upside - the fishing industry is happy.

Fish exports will save Britain.......so there!

er........ https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21724775-legally-complex-hard-enforce-and-probably-bad-britain-fishing-case-study

 

lol

[Ootohere]

There is an issue there.

The other nations being banned from UK waters from 12 miles off the coast if it happens and what the EU then allows in Exports.

 

The other thing is if you check out the North East of Scotland fleet fishing out of UK Ports or Norwegian ones and what nationalities crew the boats now, 

living on board when in port sadly.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-37777168 

 

Lots to be sorted out about the UK Fishing Fleet & catches and quotas and then the Fish Farming Industry and exports.

Edited 8 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Ryeman]

Just now, Awayoffski said:

There is an issue there.

The other nations being banned from UK waters from 12 miles off the coast if it happens and what the EU then allows in Exports.

 

The other thing is if you check out the North East of Scotland fleet fishing out of UK Ports or Norwegian ones and what nationalities crew the boats now, 

living on board when in port sadly.

 

Lots to be sorted out about the UK Fishing Fleet & catches and quotas and then the Fish Farming Industry and exports.

Not to mention Russian and Chinese trawlers when the northern route opens permanently.

Listen up fish!

[@Lee]

2 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

 

Lots to be sorted out about the UK Fishing Fleet & catches and quotas and then the Fish Farming Industry and exports.

Yep. More trade deals will have to be arranged. Things aint looking rosy.

Glad I didn't fall for the leave BS.

[@Lee]

1 minute ago, Ryeman said:

Not to mention Russian and Chinese trawlers when the northern route opens permanently.

Listen up fish!

I'm sure Theresa will make sure they all get an ID card and forced to stay in UK waters.

 

[Ryeman]

On such an important issue you should have had a proper national plebiscite rather than a pop poll.

Americans don't care much either.

[trundlenut]

1 hour ago, Awayoffski said:

Business & Commerce & Industry is what gives employment and then the Service Industries are required. 

and Government, Banking, Treasury etc. Homes, Energy, Health Care, Education.

Odd that those that have Sir or Lady before their names are often the cause of Pension and Banking Crisis,

Sir Philip Green, Sir Fred Goodwin, Baron Darling and many many others that get the peerages.

There is an issue with Politicians & Ex Politicians and the cronies.

 

Employers and bosses are required and i have no idea were you get me being 'Anti Business comes from'.

Anti Fraud yes, stealing pension funds etc.

Allowing the system to corrupt and being honoured for it is criminal IMO.

 

As to anti BREXIT, that is not me, i am not bothered either way, but since it is coming i can not believe the Re-moaners.

Head in the sand and idiots that think it is not happening and changes are not needed since it is happening.

 

 

Well the point is there are plenty of able bodies to do work  but not all are prepared to and even though there was an education system in the UK for children from 5-16 year old not all are employable.

 

Point being the UK is responsible for the situation it is in now and trillions of debt and it is not the lack of population that meant migrant workers were required,  and truth is that they are not keeping 'British Born' out of work in the UK.

 

The UK has been happy to have workers leaving the UK for a better life and coming and going, and for migrants to arrive, 

and then it seems there are some ignorants in the UK think time for a clear out.

 

PS

Allowing people to leave school at 15 & 16 to work or take courses allowing them to train and work was OK, if they were plonking school at least they were then doing something and earning by being officially allowed to leave. I did that as the school allowed us to try different jobs and if the employer wanted us we could start with them.

YTS & YOP's was a con though as you would know if ever involved with it.

 

Paying different rates to people a few years difference in age doing identical jobs is a reason many are not interesting in the low paid jobs.

Thanks for the clear and concise presentation of succinct evidence to support your initial claims.