help gutless mpi!

[Noalc]

After a message to Wino, he suggested i raise this question in the forum so i paste it here in hopes of likely culpirt(s)

 

Been trudging thru the mk1 fabia topics and cant find a definitive and seeing that you tend to be one of the highest responders to posts, thought i might ask about my mk1 fabia 1.4mpi aqw  8v '03 it performs very poorly and struggles badly on hills havin to drop down to second on anything more than a slight gradient.

Its been like this since igot it about 2 yrs ago and makes driving a disappointment rather  than a pleasure . (sorry for rambling) . could youtell me of the common possible causes of this new air filter, plugs, coil pack, done  Which sensors might be responsible ? i don't have money to throw at it so hoping its one of these rather than timing chain ( which i gather is normal to rattle around ) or head ( it doesn't appear to be misfiring smoking leaking etc .  so i,m hoping its something you've come across and can advise me or direct me toward the relevant section in the forums thanks in lieu of any wisdom imparted !

[felicia16v]

fuel filter is worth a try before anything else, otherwise could be lots of things.

[Noalc]

thanks wiil try that when i find it where does that reside ?

[felicia16v]

Just in front of the right hand rear wheel just make notes of which pipes go where as there are 3 of them. 

[Noalc]

Thanks thats on order ,meanwhile back in the forums... up to page 202 very little about aqw engine. Did they get scrapped early on !? 

A couple of threads with something vaguely similiar to my fault, one is the 02 sensor precat and another about camshaft sensor, 1 about splits to  the vacuum pipe on the brake servo and then one on problems with injectors gunky/faulty. Other than these the faults then move towards hg/valve stem issues and timing chain.If anyone has thoughts on likelihood of these or any other possibilities like i was wondering about the fuel pump.

I really thought it would be something well covered in the forum alas not it seems. As before any comments info much appreciated.     

[sepulchrave]

I think it has to be something fairly major for the car to be so far down on power yet showing no codes or faults, I suggest getting the cam timing checked and if that's ok get a compression and leakdown test done, these tests should not be very expensive.

[vRSAnt]

1.4 mpi is particularly gutless I'm afraid, I know from direct personal experience and thats not a banger either its one I had from new.

 

Lost count of the number of orgasms I had overtaking when I had my new vRS delivered from new many many years ago

( that was my running in I guess in hindsight I was race honing it, lol).

 

Not sure if there is any performance mods but you'd be better off getting a lighter newer fabia 1.2 htp, they outperform the 1.4 I'm afraid.

or a 1.4 16v for a more modest upgrade, I'm afraid you have to be realistic with this car.

Its actually seems to have better powerband once its moving, but from straitionary, forget it.

 

Tax is a joke too which is one of the reasons I ditched, but very reliable.

I still see my old 02 plate being driven around this county from time to time must have a few miles on it now!

[vRSAnt]

Sorry if my last reply was a bit negative but its good to be realistic.

 

Probably a good idea to also time your car to 60 on normal road conditions and compare to standard specs.

15.3 secs to 60 which is a good basic benchmark of performance

http://www.parkers.co.uk/skoda/fabia/estate-2001/14-classic-5d-(ac)/specs/

 

The 100bhp elegance as 1.4 16v is 11.2 to 60,

Diesel vRS circa 8 ish seconds.

 

New shape 1.2 htp fabia 2 ( 1.2 htp/ 12v) is 14.4 - that won't light any fires but having driven that I certainly haven't felt the same kind of tardiness I have as the original 8v, it has the get up a go you'd expect from a small car.

( maybe its not just entirely about power but also weight, 1050kg for the forementioned 2, compare with  1190kg for you car ).

Besides being down on power also a good 140Kg heavier.

 

 

Maybe besides any increases to actual performance possible,

you might be able to put the Fabia on a drastic weight saving programme? Lighter alloy wheels? Remove any unneeded interior, remove full size spare in favour of emergency can. etc etc.

 

[Gizmo]

Before throwing loads of money at it unnecessarily I would give it a full service (plugs, fuel filter, oil & filter change etc)  if it’s not had one recently but ideally get the car scanned first with VCDS to see if you have any faults.

[Avalon]

On 1/29/2017 at 14:31, vRSAnt said:

1.4 mpi is particularly gutless I'm afraid, I know from direct personal experience and thats not a banger either its one I had from new.

 

Lost count of the number of orgasms I had overtaking when I had my new vRS delivered from new many many years ago

( that was my running in I guess in hindsight I was race honing it, lol).

 

Not sure if there is any performance mods but you'd be better off getting a lighter newer fabia 1.2 htp, they outperform the 1.4 I'm afraid.

or a 1.4 16v for a more modest upgrade, I'm afraid you have to be realistic with this car.

Its actually seems to have better powerband once its moving, but from straitionary, forget it.

 

Tax is a joke too which is one of the reasons I ditched, but very reliable.

I still see my old 02 plate being driven around this county from time to time must have a few miles on it now!

I did 2,000 miles a month in one for years, certainly not quick, (Fabia's are quite heavy and 68bhp of NA power isn't going to help), it's still capable of three figures without issue, but that chain driven mpi engine is well proven (derived from the Skoda 1.3 mpi) and virtually bomb proof. Yes I did do a lot to the one I had, as it was easier to do it and know it never needed touching again than to mess about. The 1.2's on the other hand are like ticking time bombs, the 16v was more reliable, but also had issues. Ironically it was parked next to a 2.0 PD140 Leon DSG Sport and I ran both, the mpi got used daily, the Leon at the w/e begrudgingly. I could take the mpi anywhere and had nothing to loose.

 

[Noalc]

thanks for responses i,m not really thinking theres much to be gained in performance from the car tho at 68bhp when new i imagine its about a quarter less now so any performance increase at all would be a good thing will ditch the spare wheel and any other non essential gubbins but i,m still thinking that power is getting lost somewhere along the line  

[sepulchrave]

On 25/01/2017 at 12:50, Noalc said:

mk1 fabia 1.4mpi aqw  8v '03 it performs very poorly and struggles badly on hills havin to drop down to second on anything more than a slight gradient.

 

This is not normal, the trusty old 1.4 8V is actually quite torquey and should not struggle on hills like you describe, I strongly suspect that the chain has jumped a tooth or two and that the cam timing is way out causing this dramatic drop in power.

 

Try and wade through all the seething invective here and see the problem for what it is, it's abnormal and can be fixed. Get the cam timing checked, cam chain needing replacement is not at all uncommon on these engines.

[felicia16v]

but change the fuel filter first, as checking the cam timing on these is a strip down job and you may as well put a new chain on anyway once you have got that far.

[sepulchrave]

I wouldn't strip it to check it, I'd simply whip off the rocker cover and measure lift at TDC and compare with spec. it'll be really obvious if it's jumped a tooth.

[felicia16v]

yes you and I might but most garages ? first thing they are going to check is autodata for the timing references and give the job to the monkey in the corner lol, tbf the pushrod motors usually just grind to a stop if the chain is that slack to jump a tooth as it will wear a hole thru the timing cover and let the oil out lol.only seen 2 skoda timing chains actually jump teeth in 25 years it's a short duplex chain with decent depth sprockets, anyway we can all guess our sofa's until he actually gets a scan done on it lol..

[sepulchrave]

You're right Felicia16v, I forget how truly useless most techs are, they haven't a clue how an engine really works, to them it's a metal box of mystery.

The incredible thing is that when you tear one to pieces they're all fundamentally THE SAME, so if you know how one works you know how they all work. It's not magic.

 

Is it possible that this MPI with no power has had the chain replaced already but it hasn't been timed up properly due to the incorrectly marked sprocket issue and the previous owner just gave up with it and flogged it on cheap. OP says it's been like it for the whole time he's owned it:

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/141504-fabia-14-mpi-timing-chain/

[felicia16v]

Possible but it should have a cam position plausibility fault logged and the eml on if so. Maybe the brakes are dragging lol..

[sepulchrave]

Perhaps the EML's been deleted, wouldn't be the first.

[Noalc]

yep i would have thought if it had jumped sprocket it would have got worse or destroyed something by now, the possibility that the chains been replaced and incorrectly timed tho is possible, i've very little history on it.

Will check the valve clearance tho i saw a post while trawling( currently page 512) that valves settings incorrrectly stated in autodata so partially opened valve on ignition which caused the same having to drop to second on hills i.m still  awaiting fuel filter delivery ordered hg set in the meantime and thats arrived! Just need to pluck up the courage to get the head off on the roadside. grin

[wiredsoftware]

Have you got the results of a scan that we can have a look at, even if just the codes?

 

I'd be surprised if any of the sensors you mentioned were the cause, they would all cause some loss of MPG/power, but not THAT much. I'd agree timing sounds more likely, unless it's obviously leaking compression or not running on all cylinders...

 

I have a vague recollection about a batch of timing kits and incorrect alignment marks, can't remember if that was the MPI though, perhaps someone else might remember that better than me?

[vRSAnt]

I was trying to advocate a very basic performance test as comparison
 

Nice quite Sunday road to a 0-60 you should be aiming at about 15s really trying.

If a lot less than that then you have performance issues ?

 

Worth doing that before assuming a problem that doesn't exist, although if its in poor state of service yes that could drain the ponies or drag the power of the car down.

 

To be honest having owned one of these it seemed to be geared to be better to punt along on the motorways etc for me. Elsewhere the power/weight ratios you'd be losing ground to even Corsa 1.2's etc

[TMB]

On 31/01/2017 at 19:56, sepulchrave said:

 

This is not normal, the trusty old 1.4 8V is actually quite torquey and should not struggle on hills like you describe....

 

 

 

Yes, I have the 1.4 8v mpi and it's actually quite torquey and pretty nippy. It's certainly no ball of fire but has more power than the OP describes in his.

Edited 5 February, 2017 by TMB

[makymak]

Having had the Felicia 1.3 mpi for a long time, long time ago, it had enough torque to travel a hole family comfortably. Never had issues with power output. Even when due to a shorted spark plug it was running with three cylinders it was powered enough to climb hills. Top speed was at about 170 km/h. I think the 1.3/1.4 8v engine is a very trustworthy piece of machinery (mine didn't consumed a drop of oil and never had issues, neither the new oner, at about 250k kilometers on the clock, now).