Are "all-weather" tyres winter legal in EU

[ARWEN]

Also ive had this reply to my question from "elsewhere".......

 

" My brother-in-law lives in Aachen, his new car (bought 2016) came fitted with all season tyres, so yes they are legal. He used to change between summer and winter tyres, with the set not being used being stored in a "Tyre Hotel". However some requirements vary between countries, for example in Austria the minimum tread depth is 4mm."

 

The plot thickens.....

[skidpan]

I have opened the link and am now confused. My paper copy of the 2017 MY brochure clearly only offers all season tyres as an option on the SE trim only and excludes the Greenline. The link is for an SE-L Greenline so how does that work? Both the SE and SE-L Greenline models have "Super ROWI SEAL tyres" fitted as standard which means no spare or even a reapir kit, must save a cup of fuel a year. Do these "all weather tyres" have this capability?

 

Anyway I am bored now, all season or all weather, whats in a name. Summer tyres have rubber and a tread pattern optimised for the summer, Winter tyres have rubber and a tread pattern optimised for the winter. All season (or weather if you want) provide a good compromise for those who don't want 2 sets of wheels. In truth a good brand of all seasons will beat a set of ditchfinder summers or winters.

 

Thats it from me. Do what you want.

[Ootohere]

So as said in a post, possibly Lost in translation.  Time will tell when the car arrives.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/412583-super-rowi-seal-tyres-greenline

 

My SEAT Alhambra 2016 has Continental ContiSeal tyres (ECO rubbish) Continental Contact Premium 2

& i had a discussion with SEAT UK who have even more issues with German / Spanish to English.

UK English not USA English.

Edited 27 January, 2017 by Offski

[ARWEN]

Update.

Today we have it confirmed that our 1.6 Greenline Estate is in fact fitted with Continental Contieco 5 tyres. These are classed as summer tyres and not "all weather" tyres after all as given in the Skoda spec sheet. Oh well....... Now off to source a set of winter rims and tyres.

[RickTT]

37 minutes ago, ARWEN said:

Update.

Today we have it confirmed that our 1.6 Greenline Estate is in fact fitted with Continental Contieco 5 tyres. These are classed as summer tyres and not "all weather" tyres after all as given in the Skoda spec sheet. Oh well....... Now off to source a set of winter rims and tyres.

 

I would suggest you go back to them and complain. ask for them to be changed.

 

 

A lad at work has just had his superb arrive, SE Tech, (Business) and he ordered hos with all season tyres, an upgrade price of £100 (minus VAT. )

 

Car arrived on summers...same as mine... . P111D value of the car includes this in the total price... hes asked for the tyres to be changed..... just waiting what they say as the lease company wont pay and the supplying dealer said its not their fault !!!

Edited 14 February, 2017 by RickTT

[Ootohere]

So you get what they said you would, 'All Weather Tyres', tyres that are fitted as standard for all weathers,

 just not good in all weathers or conditions like winter & not 3 peak certified tyres suitable 

for some countries or areas as a legal tyre in Snow / Ice conditions.

 

'Lost in Translation' as often happens with SKODA, VW, AUDI & SEAT.  English or British English not being the Company or Parent Companies first language.

[ionelmc]

All-seasons aren't so good, maybe find some tests to see what you'll actually get (look for braking in wet road at least), eg: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Is-there-a-true-all-season-tyre-We-find-out.htm

[ARWEN]

Update and warning to others.

 

Skoda Superb III 1.6D Greenline Estate

 

Last week my car arrived fitted with Continental EcoConti 5 tyres which (according to Skoda) are classed as "all weather tyres". All weather tyres is the term they use in the Skoda printed brochures and also on their website. Unfortunately Continentals official website states (and ive also had this confirmed by email through their technical department) that the manufacturer considers and classifies these tyres as "summer" tyres.

 

I specificaly told the salesman at the time of placing the order that I needed to drive across Europe, including through the Alps, and that intended to leave almost immediatley after the car was delivered. He checked the Skoda brochure in front of me and my wife and read the webpage print which out I showed him, and he confirmed that the car would indeed be delivered fitted with "all weather" tyres. The dealer is now not interested at all and refers me to Skoda head office as its their problem. (Although he has offred to sell me set of winter wheels and tyres at cost)

 

I contacted Skoda head office and after much backwards and forwards discussion over the past 7 days, Skoda tell me today that the tyres fitted to my vehicle are the correct ones as they are:

 

"a tyre that is suitable for all weather conditions.............. in the UK"

 

and as thats all that is required under UK law, they will be taking no futher action and tell me to revert to the dealer if I am still not satisfied. To be clear, these tyres are NOT legal for winter driving conditions across Europe.

 

Ive had very poor service from the dealer throughout the sale, such as not replying to emails (2x) and (5x) telephone calls. I had to go to the dealer showroom in person last week to get any response from them at all and even then I had to wait around for nearly an hour to be dealt with.

 

Now, with only seven days before I must depart, I still have no answers, no one is taking responsibility or willing to help, and Im left feeling very dissapointed with the whole situation. I did everything I could to determine which tyres would be fitted to the car before I placed the order and then again once it had arrived and yet now im left having to pay out another £600 - £700 - £800 which I really cannot afford.

 

I should explain that I am registred disabled and travel accross Europe for specialised medical treatment that I cannot get in the UK. Ive done this trip many times over the past 12 years so I know the issues around winter driving in Europe and I picked this car as it seemed ideally suited for my needs, including being fitted with a suitable set of tyres. 

 

Moral of the story; Dont assume that the so called "all weather" tyres fitted to your Skoda will be winter legal in Europe, because they are NOT, they are only legal for use in the UK winter conditions, as we have less strict demands here it would seem and maybe a different type of snow????????

[ARWEN]

Update and warning to others.

 

Skoda Superb III 1.6D Greenline Estate

 

Last week my car arrived fitted with Continental EcoConti 5 tyres which (according to Skoda) are classed as "all weather tyres". All weather tyres is the term they use in the Skoda printed brochures and also on their website. Unfortunately Continentals official website states (and ive also had this confirmed by email through their technical department) that the manufacturer considers and classifies these tyres as "summer" tyres.

 

I specificaly told the salesman at the time of placing the order that I needed to drive across Europe, including through the Alps, and that intended to leave almost immediatley after the car was delivered. He checked the Skoda brochure in front of me and my wife and read the webpage print which out I showed him, and he confirmed that the car would indeed be delivered fitted with "all weather" tyres. The dealer is now not interested at all and refers me to Skoda head office as its their problem. (Although he has offred to sell me set of winter wheels and tyres at cost)

 

I contacted Skoda head office and after much backwards and forwards discussion over the past 7 days, Skoda tell me today that the tyres fitted to my vehicle are the correct ones as they are:

 

"a tyre that is suitable for all weather conditions.............. in the UK"

 

and as thats all that is required under UK law, they will be taking no futher action and tell me to revert to the dealer if I am still not satisfied. To be clear, these tyres are NOT legal for winter driving conditions across Europe.

 

Ive had very poor service from the dealer throughout the sale, such as not replying to emails (2x) and (5x) telephone calls. I had to go to the dealer showroom in person last week to get any response from them at all and even then I had to wait around for nearly an hour to be dealt with.

 

Now, with only seven days before I must depart, I still have no answers, no one is taking responsibility or willing to help, and Im left feeling very dissapointed with the whole situation. I did everything I could to determine which tyres would be fitted to the car before I placed the order and then again once it had arrived and yet now im left having to pay out another £600 - £700 - £800 which I really cannot afford.

 

I should explain that I am registred disabled and travel accross Europe for specialised medical treatment that I cannot get in the UK. Ive done this trip many times over the past 12 years so I know the issues around winter driving in Europe and I picked this car as it seemed ideally suited for my needs, including being fitted with a suitable set of tyres. 

 

Moral of the story; Dont assume that the so called "all weather" tyres fitted to your Skoda will be winter legal in Europe, because they are NOT, they are only legal for use in the UK winter conditions, as we have less strict demands here it would seem and maybe a different type of snow????????

[Ootohere]

Mainland Continental Europe is a big place with many countries so you have to be specific about where the tyres are not legal in winter because it certainly is not in all of Europe that is not the British Isles. 

You did have a bit of a warning that it was unlikely the car was coming with 'Winter Tyres' that you might need in Winter in some areas of Europe.

[ARWEN]

I had already checked that "all weather" tyres are legal in Germany, Austria, Slovenia and Croatia, where we are heading.

I never expected winter tyres at any point, all weathers would be legal and fine for my needs.

Edited 24 February, 2017 by ARWEN

[Ootohere]

Go back to your title, and where you were speaking to a Dealership employee in a dealership that was clueless, 

then the website where you read 'All Weather' but i warned you of 'Lost in Translation'  as to what would come as standard fit.

Sorry but from the beginning it was almost certain what you were getting without paying more for an option was All Season Tyres not suitable for regions that require the correct certificated tyre in Winter or certain conditions. 3 Peak snow flake winter tyres or All Weather like Michelin Crossclimates which are Summers certified for winter use.

Edited 24 February, 2017 by Awayoffski

[ARWEN]

So Skoda describing tyres as all weather and then supplying a tyre which the manufactureres themselves describe as a summer model, is not misrepresenting the facts? Lost in translation hardly covers that I think?

[Huskoda]

What they are called is utterly irrelevant to the law. The law doesn't require Winter or All Season tyres. The law requires the correct specification moulded on the sidewall (IE the 3 peaks logo or M+S under certain jurisdictions). The police aren't going to google your tyre, they will look around the sidewall and if they don't see the correct logo you get a fine. That is what you should have been asking for, you were getting too hung up on the wording and not listening to what everyone was telling you.

 

However, we are still in the EU. They are not suitable for all-weather in the EU and are being sold as such in this (EU) market, if you have that in black and white. That may be worth something towards getting some good will. However, they now have your money and you have accepted the car so I don't think there's much you will get from them.

[ARWEN]

"What they are called is utterly irrelevant to the law". 

 

You are wrong in saying that Huskoda.

 

Regulations such as the consumer rights act 2015 or Trades Description Act basically say that a description given by a seller must be acurate and easily understood by an "average" buyer.

 

I think describing a summer tyre as an all weather tyre certainly falls into that catagory dont you?

 

Imagine the problem if an "average" buyer bought on the understanding that they were getting all weather tyres and then having an accident in Europe? No insurance cover. Car impounded. Fines. Cost of fitting suitable tyres.

 

Im no lawyer but citizens advice think there is a clear and serious issue here.

 

 

 

 

[Warrior193]

On 1/26/2017 at 09:03, penguin17 said:

http://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/winter-tyres/laws-and-legislation

 

 

Thanks for the link Penguin, very specific and clear - I'd guess that pretty much settles the discussion.

[Warrior193]

1 hour ago, ARWEN said:

"What they are called is utterly irrelevant to the law". 

 

You are wrong in saying that Huskoda.

 

Regulations such as the consumer rights act 2015 or Trades Description Act basically say that a description given by a seller must be acurate and easily understood by an "average" buyer.

 

I think describing a summer tyre as an all weather tyre certainly falls into that catagory dont you?

 

Imagine the problem if an "average" buyer bought on the understanding that they were getting all weather tyres and then having an accident in Europe? No insurance cover. Car impounded. Fines. Cost of fitting suitable tyres.

 

Im no lawyer but citizens advice think there is a clear and serious issue here.

 

 

 

 

Hi Arwen, just to be clear, did you pay anything extra as an option for these tyres, or were they quoted as "standard"?

[ARWEN]

Just now, Warrior193 said:

Hi Arwen, just to be clear, did you pay anything extra as an option for these tyres, or were they quoted as "standard"?

 

They were offered as Standard on GreenlIne spec. I did not pay extra

 

[Ootohere]

2nd from bottom post on page 1 links to the Skoda Official site where he read 'All Weather tyres'.

[Ootohere]

http://kwik-fit.com/tyres/types-of-tyre/all-season-tyres 

 

 

Edited 25 February, 2017 by Awayoffski

[knfruitbat]

This got me wondering if I am going to end up driving straight out of the dealers and into a tyre place for something decent.

My tyre description just says "Tyres 235/45 R18 94W" nothing else. Also says I am getting scuff plates with an S on them, not sure why as I am getting an L&K Estate. The Skoda configurator and the brochure disagree with each other about which spare wheel goes under the variable boot floor, so don't think the accuracy can be relied on.

 

If you have it in writing that you made it clear that you specified tyres for a particular purpose, and they agreed to it, then they are responsible for changing them. If not it is all hearsay. Maybe why dealers don't like putting things in writing.

 

When I ordered my car I put everything in emails and got them to confirm everything via email (even if agreed over the phone), and got my order with extras in writing. When I signed my order I stated above my signature that I expected the car to be perfect with no scratches, dents or scuffs, and exactly match the specification as agreed otherwise I would reject the car, and that these were my T & C's, and if they accepted the order they agreed to them. The guy went a bit pale, and said there would be no problems, to which I said if that was the case then he would have no issues agreeing then. He took the order.

Edited 26 February, 2017 by knfruitbat

[Warrior193]

8 hours ago, knfruitbat said:

This got me wondering if I am going to end up driving straight out of the dealers and into a tyre place for something decent.

My tyre description just says "Tyres 235/45 R18 94W" nothing else. Also says I am getting scuff plates with an S on them, not sure why as I am getting an L&K Estate. The Skoda configurator and the brochure disagree with each other about which spare wheel goes under the variable boot floor, so don't think the accuracy can be relied on.

 

If you have it in writing that you made it clear that you specified tyres for a particular purpose, and they agreed to it, then they are responsible for changing them. If not it is all hearsay. Maybe why dealers don't like putting things in writing.

 

When I ordered my car I put everything in emails and got them to confirm everything via email (even if agreed over the phone), and got my order with extras in writing. When I signed my order I stated above my signature that I expected the car to be perfect with no scratches, dents or scuffs, and exactly match the specification as agreed otherwise I would reject the car, and that these were my T & C's, and if they accepted the order they agreed to them. The guy went a bit pale, and said there would be no problems, to which I said if that was the case then he would have no issues agreeing then. He took the order.

Wow, unfortunate that you felt that it was necessary to go to such lengths, but a very good idea. Am I correct in assuming that you have had previous issues with dealers? 

[knfruitbat]

Having visited a couple of dealers and been messed around, it became clear that (at least those I visited) they didn't know what they were talking about and didn't really care, as long as they made the sale.

I called a dealer to arrange to test drive a Superb L&K estate, made an appointment for the following day at a specific time. Arrive at dealer, can't find the car. Go inside, they show me an Occy estate. Ok, try not to waste the trip, what is the boot like on the Occy estate. They can't find the keys, when they do find the keys they can't open the boot. And best deal on new car? List price. Not going back there.

Tried another local dealer doesn't have a clue about any of my questions, keeps referring to the brochure, and drawing lines under bits in the April 2016 brochure, even though I took the November 2016 brochure with me, and I can read, thankfully.

So I went for best deal I could find but over 140 miles away, popped in to see them after Christmas while I was travelling nearby, so everything since has been over the phone and confirmed via email. Have to say I did visit a dealer in Telford and the guy I meet there was very helpful and offered to send me an invite to the Kodiaq event just to check if that would be easier for me. (I am disabled).

[Huskoda]

On 25/02/2017 at 17:00, ARWEN said:

"What they are called is utterly irrelevant to the law". 

 

You are wrong in saying that Huskoda.

 

I meant in regards to the Winter Tyre laws in various countries. They don't care what the tyre is described as, they care about what certification is stamped on the sidewall.

 

I fully agree with you that the dealer is not being honest. Or just utterly ignorant. And I don't sadly know which I'd say is more likely.

[ARWEN]

UPDATE

 

After another visit to the dealers showroom on Saturday, today I received several calls from the sales manager and they have agreed to supply and fit a set of Dunlop Winter Sport 5, hopefully on Thursday 24 hours before I travel. They assure me that there will be no nasty computer "errors" popping up, and the costs for changing over each winter sesason will be covered by them, who will store the tyres during the summer has yet to be discuused but inst a major issue either way.

 

What a shame it has taken until the last minute for someone at the dealer to genuinely address my concerns and take ownership of the problem. My contact with customer services at Skoda head office were "pleasant" enough but their final decession (to avoid responsibility and refer the issue back to the dealer) is shocking in my opinion.

 

The dealer has come good at the end and I am extreamly grateful for that, but for a mainstream manufacturer like Skoda to refuse to acknowledge a potential major safety and legal hazard is almost bordering on criminal. How many UK families have driven to the slopes on skiing trips this year believing that their "all weather" tyres were perfectly safe and legal? I hope nothing more serious comes to light regarding this, and that Skoda will get their act together and deal with the problem before someone is seriously injured while driving in European winter conditions.

 

Ive avoided naming my dealership until now, but given their last minute "saving of the day" I am now happy to do so. I cannot recommend their sales customer service higher than 4/10 due to poor response to calls and emails. But they are choosing to accept responsibility for what is ultimately Skoda's mistake, does show them in a decent light and that they have a genuine interest in customet satisfaction and care.  So I will give Bristos Skoda. Ipswich.  an overall score of 7/10 after todays good efforts.

 

Hopefully now I can just get on and enjoy my new car and my trip across Europe.

 

Many thanks to everyone who replied and offered some good advice and opinions.

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 February, 2017 by ARWEN