Climbers/Mountaineers

[ColinD]

1 hour ago, Breckie said:

I did Mont Blanc about a thousand years ago. I've climbed up to grade 3+ in Winter & finished my Munros in 1998 before moving on to the Pamirs & the Himalaya.  Mont Blanc isn't particularly difficult by the Gouter route although it has got a tad "iffy" crossing the Grand Couloir (See https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5784  for info)

 

Bit of a step up there :) Most people seem to head to Corbets and Marilyn hills.  I was thinking of grabbing a few munros in the next few weeks, if winter settles. Also got a half mind to spend a week/12days on the cape wrath trail. 

 

Might be best  to split the 'charity' walk bit to a new topic, @ me if you do.  I can dig into the cost of a man with a van from somewhere in cheshire as a central starting/return point.

 

I think @Jrjg has said now that a guide for them is a definite on the matterhorn. The descent is the tricky bit, it nearly always is. If you over balance going up you tend to fall into the rock, down you're top heavy so you go over.

 

If you clock the last video I posted, skip through it, on the ascent he's; the guide, is just using a short rope in his hand, occasionally stopping with a friction belay. On the descent though, you see the guides hitching the rope to 'objects' in order to actively 'belay/lower'. That is then for the descent they are using the rope system. There wasn't anything on there that looked difficult. On my run today I was thinking chains in North Wales... Can get you up and down more height, but not consistently scrambling ( unless you up and down on the main glyder face )... with a few scrambling/climbing moves to raise the heartbeat, but crucially widen the knowledge, if up and over Tryfan isn't enough; it's not

 

Tryfan Bach > East Face Classic > Bristly|Shark|Dolmen > YGribin > Idwal > Slabs > Cneifion Arete > Bochlwyd It's an epic day out to aim for.

 

 

 

 

[Breckie]

1. I've thought on the Cape Wrath Trail. Even bought a few books and maps. Easy it aint. Might attempt some of it later this year before the dreaded midge arrives. Have you thought on the RLS way? It's the route that David Balfour took in Kidnapped. It's a DOOZY!

What Munros did you have in mind?

[ColinD]

15 minutes ago, Breckie said:

1. I've thought on the Cape Wrath Trail. Even bought a few books and maps. Easy it aint. Might attempt some of it later this year before the dreaded midge arrives. Have you thought on the RLS way? It's the route that David Balfour took in Kidnapped. It's a DOOZY!

What Munros did you have in mind?

 

I'm bound to the Ben for one trip, then Torridon. Inbetween I've got a small job near Roybridge for our club. So I'll probably take it easy and fill in the meagaidh lines. Test the knees!

 

For the CWT, yes before midge season! May has been excellent in recent years, but I'm busy this year; etive slabs last year sublime, so pencilled for next, probably 2019. Torn between light weight; tarp, or tent and a bit slower. It's not getting done twice. RLS, nice terrain and scarily remote, considering how close you are. Finishing on Iona would be nicer.

[Breckie]

• Sounds a nice trip. The CIC even has a toilet now. Bunch of softies the SMC.

Ling hut. Nice if difficult to find in the dark if one has had the odd refreshment. I remember it's a long walk in to Coire Lair to get blasted off.........

 

Have a good trip & don't drop off Beinn a Chaorainn.

[Jrjg]

5 hours ago, Breckie said:

I did Mont Blanc about a thousand years ago. I've climbed up to grade 3+ in Winter & finished my Munros in 1998 before moving on to the Pamirs & the Himalaya.  Mont Blanc isn't particularly difficult by the Gouter route although it has got a tad "iffy" crossing the Grand Couloir (See https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5784  for info)

 

You have to get used to very long days in the hills and moving together over tricky terrain. Winter in Scotland is probably the best type of training. You're right in that something like the Carn Mor Dearg Arete would be good. Starting about 2.00 a.m. from the North Face car park after a broken nights sleep is great training! Running ten miles won't help an awful lot I'm afraid.

 

Have you thought on a guide? Not overly expensive and they can be invaluable in knowing the routes and reading the conditions.

 

Whatever you do stay safe and have a great time.

 

Great advice, sounds as though you have a plethora of experience and knowledge in the field, expect me to be picking your brains! I will be signing up to the UKC forum too, so should have my reading material cut out for the foreseeable future. 

 

Starting at 0200 to simulate the early starts needed for full ascent and descents in the Alps and beyond? Or starting early in order to complete a much longer route than normal? 

 

Regarding a guide: 

Definitely for the Matterhorn, after viewing footage of the variety of routes and reading how the majority of unguided climbers end up being airlifted off the mountain! 

Not as convinced for Mont Blanc though, considering how busy it can be, I'd be happier leaving a hundred yards and following the endless snake trail up the mountain! 

 

JRJG 

Edited 7 February, 2017 by Jrjg
Additional response added

[Breckie]

sounds as though you have a plethora of experience and knowledge in the field, expect me to be picking your brains..........Thanks for the compliment. Unfortunately I can't really claim to be an expert in anything but I'll help if I can. As an aside anything I did in the Alps was a long time ago & as an example of my "memory" or indeed lack of it was in 1988 that I did my last Munro. Ho hum aint old age wonderful..........NOT.

 

Getting up at 2.00 a.m. isn't really a problem with everyone snoring and farting all night never mind those getting up to the toilets every five minutes!

It's also a rush to get everything ready, get your boots on the correct feet and get out the door! A 2.00 a.m. start for the Ben is also a good way of finding out how your body reacts to this unusual state of affairs. E.g. eating, drinking etc. I also advise getting absolutely sloshed the night before as the after effects are pretty similar to altitude sickness.

 

Yep you certainly can do Mont Blanc on your own but you'd have to watch the weather forecast carefully and be fully aware of the crevasse risks. Be slick in everything you do. Rope work. Crevasse rescue etc. No faffing around. It's the descent that you have to be very careful of & not really the crocodile to the top. Bear in mind though that there can be a lot slower than you & that screws things up with regard to the cold & the timing of your descent.

 

Anyway whatever you do have fun and stay safe.

[Jrjg]

I have spoken to a friend who has been climbing indoors for a long time. He is going to tutor myself and a friend in the basics of indoor climbing, tying on, belaying, etc and then onto lead climbing later on. I have bought some rock shoes (the most uncomfortable pair of shoes I have ever bought). The reason for the sudden jump into indoor rock climbing is the rope work, also I imagine some climbing moves/techniques may well come in handy in scramble situations in the future. Off there this evening to make a start at it.

 

Once we are reasonably confident and competent at rope work indoors we plan on joining a local climbing/mountaineering club to move things outdoors. I didn't want to turn up at a club and have no idea what was going on, expecting them to teach me everything necessary to be safe on an outdoor climb, hence the indoor climbing to begin with. 

 

I have also bought a 'Scrambles and Easy Climbs in the Lake District'. Some really great routes described and illustrated. Looking forward to moving into the grade two and three scramble territory. 

 

I was interested to see that Striding Edge, Sharp Edge, Jack Rake are listed as Grade 1 scrambles. I look forward to tackling grade two and three! 

 

JRJG 

[ColinD]

On 07/02/2017 at 18:08, Breckie said:

1. I've thought on the Cape Wrath Trail. Even bought a few books and maps. Easy it aint. Might attempt some of it later this year before the dreaded midge arrives. Have you thought on the RLS way? It's the route that David Balfour took in Kidnapped. It's a DOOZY!

What Munros did you have in mind?

 

I'm bound to the Ben for one trip, then Torridon. In between I've got a small job near Roybridge for our club. So I'll probably take it easy and fill in the meagaidh lines. Test the knees!

 

For the CWT, yes before midge season! May has been excellent in recent years, but I'm busy this year; etive slabs last year sublime, so penciled for next, probably 2019. Torn between light weight; tarp, or tent and a bit slower. It's not getting done twice. RLS, nice terrain and scarily remote, considering how close you are. Finishing on Iona would be nicer.

[ColinD]

@Jrjg good luck on the indoor stuff. There is still a lot to take in and like scrambling, indoor walls are in my view also a very dangerous place. Make sure you are 100% happy with the knot and don't be distracted by bottoms or chat while tying the knot or while belaying. Check the knott, pull it, look at it. The knot they will encourage you to use is a figure of eight with a double stopper. There are only a few more you need to know when you transition to the outdoors.

 

You don't need to watch every move your mate makes, your neck will hate you. But blabbering away or watching someone else are not really the way to inspire trust... you literally have that persons life in your hands!

• Remember to climb on your feet, unless you're a clone of a gibbon.
• Your arms are for balance and will be knackered quickly. Try to almost let go with each hand after moving, if you can you're in balance  move your hips about.. same for scrambling with your pack changing your center of gravity. Get that right and you're laughing! 
• If you're madly gripping a hold, white knuckles and some sort of Klingon battle face, look down, probably missing a big foot hold   Oh yeah, look down more than up  helps you to remember to bring your feet up the wall with you.
• Do spend 10 mins watching a woman climb. They rarely tend to use upper body with grunt to solve problems. If you're lucky you'll see that hip movement and twisting for balance is common.
• Try a slab, without using your hands on holds. 
• Explore corners, they are fun and occur outside a lot.
• Try a route in your rock shoes, then put your walking boots; clean, on ( make it a 3 or a 4 ). Remember to apply the above... note the difference.

Scrambling beyond grade 2 requires basic rock movement skills, so you'll be well on the way with a few wall routes that fox you. At 2/3 ropework does become a consideration, but good climbing skills will push that to a safety system rather than a physiological test... You'll find in scrambling a lot of use for using your arms to push you upwards. Think about that when in a wall too, you can often use the same hold to pull up, then push past. You'll not really encounter anything overhanging while scrambling, vertical walls at most, so do the overhangs for kicks, nothing else and your feet still do the work .

 

Rock shoe comfort, that is a thing of many hours discussion. In short they should not be uncomfortable for indoor use, they should not be floppy either... They will give a bit depending on the style you have. I have a pair I can wear for hours at a time in the wall. They do not need to be expensive, they wear out quickly in walls, if you use your feet a lot  and a lot faster if you slide your foot everywhere... place it, pays dividends later when in boots on small nubbins. Some people are beginning to wear helmets on scrambles. Makes sense on steeper lines where rock fall might occur from others ahead of you. Also makes a handy lunch protector/ seat.

 

Outdoors is a world apart from indoors. It's not uncommon to see people floating up indoor 6's and be stumped by an outdoor equiv grade 4, not always, depends on the rock and how natural you are, but it can be a jolt. Especially as the gear isn't fixed and isn't as regular. A route I did in spain 14 pitches, many 50m roped pitches, many were easy enough ground but only one or two decent placements. On harder scrambles you are soloing; even with the rope,  then placing a hex/nut or sling to protect a difficult step, then another to protect your second... As you saw on the matterhorn the gear and ropes are fixed, that's luxury and you won't find anything like that in the UK. You'll find much better experiences

 

For grade 3 territory a rope and knowledge of body belay, friction, moving together is vital, you can make do gear wise with a few slings and the odd odd sized nut or hex.

But remember you're essentially soloing  The leader must not fall  Which is a different mindset to the 'wall' where its 'ok' to fall.  

 

Enjoy it, it's the most natural skill we have after walking and running. It opens up many more mountain days out too

 

ps

For the alps, insurance, investigate the autrianalpine club, it's an annual thing, great cover and covers you for more than one trip. Stuff like the bmc is cheaper for a 1 trip. anyway that's not for today

 

 

 

[Jrjg]

@ColinD

Had a great night on Tuesday, I had been practicing the double figure of eight stopper knot at work with an old piece of rope, so had half an idea as to what to do. My climbing friend (Let's call him The Climber) was kind enough to show us very patiently and thoroughly what the basics were. We were soon belaying one another and making our way up steady '5+' sections. Not that I am particularly interested in the grade side of things. Just that anything less than 5 seemed a bit too easy really.
My friend had bought a fancy Arcteryx harness from Ebay that turned out to be too tight on his thighs, fits me perfect though so that's one less thing to worry about buying! The shoes were tight, my big and second toes were numb after thirty minutes or so, but not extremely painful, definitely bearable.

I noticed how easy it is to get distracted whilst belaying, and end up leaving slack, when belaying for The Climber I had to ask him to slow down as I am not fluid enough in belaying just yet to keep up with his pace, he seemed climb at a phenomenal rate, at least compared to the two of us there for the first time, to be expected I suppose. We constantly asked him and re-asked him if our knots, carbs, ropes etc were correct and as they should be.

All in all it was a successful evening, we're off again next Tuesday to do the same, rinse and repeat, get it as second nature. The Climber wants to take us to a lead climbing level before we get signed off, he seemed fairly happy with our progress after just two and a half hours. I will be glad once we're signed off, so that we can come and go as we please just the two of us and not have to hassle him and have him keep check on us.

In reply to your climbing tips: I watched a couple of 'How to Rock Climb' videos before going, they echoed what you have said above, climb with your feet, almost try to forget about your hands, 'Silent Feet', and the most effective technique which I tried to employ was keeping my body (and therefore centre of gravity) close to the wall, turning my hips sideways so that I could be close to the wall. It was definitely easier than hanging 'square on' to the wall. Our technique will obviously take years to master, I'm not sure if we will stick at it as long as that, we're more interested in the rock work as I have said previously, but currently we are both mad keen to get to the wall and sink plenty of hours into improving our ability and technique.

The Lead climbing wall sections do look very exciting, just the fact that you're placing your rope ahead of yourself rather than top roping, I imagine there is quite a bit of fear and anxiety surrounding it to begin with, that's a good few weeks off yet anyway.

Planning a couple of full days walking with plenty of scrambling opportunities mixed among it all. Not planning on roping up for scrambles just yet, so if it does get a bit hairy then we'll perform a d tour and get back onto the trail higher up, we can always go back to it at a later date with ropes and a few slings to make some anchors if it is looking particularly dodgy. Good news is The Climber is wanting to do some mountaineering/scrambling/easy outdoor crag routes, so our walking duo may well become a trio.
 

We have also had a couple of other "happy to take you somewhere local" type offers from climbers, friends and friends of friends that we had no idea climbed. The climbing community seem to be very friendly, helpful and welcoming folk. Lots still to read on UKC still, lots and lots in fact.

JRJG

[fabdavrav]

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 12:56, ColinD said:

@Jrjg

• Remember to climb on your feet, unless you're a clone of a gibbon. Or like me.....feet what are feet for???
• Your arms are for balance and will be knackered quickly. Nah you just build strong shoulders & arms....
• If you're madly gripping a hold, white knuckles and some sort of Klingon battle face, look down, probably about to s888 yourself......
• Do spend 10 mins watching a woman climb. If you're lucky you'll see that hip movement  I do that all the time.......you might get distracted tho......
• .

 

Outdoors is a world apart from indoors. It's not uncommon to see people floating up indoor 6's and be stumped by an outdoor equiv grade 4, not always, depends on the rock and how natural you are, but it can be a jolt. Exposure.......I'm only 20ft up the climb but WTF does it look like I'm 1000ft up?....because the cliff is half way up the valley......then there's wind, & the problem of the impending darkness, weather etc, etc....& don't drop a glove........bye bye...

 

 

 

[Jrjg]

Second night on the wall has been and gone, off there again tomorrow night. 

 

I headed up to the Lakes on Saturday (great weather... Not!) to attempt a couple of scrambles on the Thirlmere side of Helvellyn. Decided to go off script and climbed the most part of a Ghyll instead. Thoroughly enjoyed it, extremely challenging, lots of loose rock, lots of weak footholds/handholds that broke off with body weight, despite stamping on them first to check, I still dropped five foot at one point when a foothold that passed my primitive stamp test gave way. 

Had to divert and skirt around the Ghyll a couple of times due to huge 'steps' that I couldn't see a way up, or didn't want to even try, not without some protection anyway. Would be much better to try it when it: 1) isn't chucking it down with rain and blowing a hoolie.

2) there is less water coming down the Ghyll

3) going with a friend to give some piece of mind if something did go wrong. 

 

As it happened my usual climbing/walking companion was working. 

 

Despite not even seeing the grade 1/2/3 scrambles I set out for, I was quite satisfied with the scrambling up 'Dry Ghyll'. Having defeated a few sections that definitely felt more like a rock climb than a scramble. 

 

Once on top of Helvellyn the weather got dramatically worse, the dog couldn't walk in a straight line and I had to constantly lean 30° or so into the wind. My supposedly 'waterproof to 20k mm' Helly Hansen jacket was letting in once on top, I suspect the rain being driven into the jacket was the main cause. Leggings were no better, they both kept it out up the various small waterfalls and streams that I passed up/under/through however. Character building stuff. 

 

I intend to travel to the same place again in the near future, head there with a friend this time and ascend the scrambles originally planned. And also to collect my map and book that I left on the Kings Head Hotel bar! 

 

On a rock climbing note: the climbing shoes must of stretched ever so slightly, they are bearable for three hours at a time now, with only by big toes going slightly numb! 

Hoping to start lead climbing tomorrow evening. Something that I am told is a whole new experience, challenging the climber due to the knowledge that if you fall, you will fall to your highest point of protection... Should be fun! I'll make sure I'm well 'seated' in my harness.

 

JRJG 

[Jrjg]

Spent about three and half hours last night at the wall. Learnt to lead climb, finished the night leading a 6a+ and a 6b. Really happy with myself! 

Lead climbing is already by far my favourite type. So much more involving and challenging, even the belaying is more enjoyable as there is more to do than just take in slack. 

Also practiced falling from well above the previous clip, to simulate failing to clip into the next quickdraw and falling as a consequence. Took me a little while to build up to it, so unnatural to throw yourself off a wall. I need to trust my gear more. 

Also need to buy some quickdraws so we can practice once we're signed off clipping into bolt holes (there are a few smaller walls with just bolt holes) and then I suppose come late Spring/Summer we'll need to buy nuts/hexes etc. still a lot to learn. 

 

JRJG

[Breckie]

On ‎01‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 09:37, Jrjg said:

Spent about three and half hours last night at the wall. Learnt to lead climb, finished the night leading a 6a+ and a 6b. Really happy with myself! 

Lead climbing is already by far my favourite type. So much more involving and challenging, even the belaying is more enjoyable as there is more to do than just take in slack. 

Also practiced falling from well above the previous clip, to simulate failing to clip into the next quickdraw and falling as a consequence. Took me a little while to build up to it, so unnatural to throw yourself off a wall. I need to trust my gear more. 

Also need to buy some quickdraws so we can practice once we're signed off clipping into bolt holes (there are a few smaller walls with just bolt holes) and then I suppose come late Spring/Summer we'll need to buy nuts/hexes etc. still a lot to learn. 

 

JRJG

At the severe risk of being considered a grouch/killjoy I would have to say that neither the wall nor the nice day out in the Lake District will be much good for undertaking a wee trip to Mont Blanc.

 

As regards the Lake District trip it sounds "character building" but of limited use for the Alps. You have to get used to long days out moving together over tricky ground. Unless, of course, you each intend to go solo.

 

As regards the wall I'd unfortunately have to say that it doesn't bare any resemblance to climbing outdoors. I remember that two of us took someone to the Ben on an easy summer climb. Said "novice" wasn't too happy on this easy peasy route as he'd spent most of the winter on the wall and thought that he was **** hot. We didn't get very far however before the dreaded sewing machine leg appeared. That's life though & once he really got going on the outdoorsy stuff he flew onwards and upwards.

 

Advice if you're interested...........get outdoors and enjoy what's out there. Sorry for the sermon........

[ColinD]

Currently battling the weather up in the highlands. Sunday, < 250m visibility, monday, sunburn alpine like conditions. Off for the five sisters tomorrow I think, one more whiskey to settle the debate.

 

as @Breckie says the path to experience is long. I'm still happy to do a few days out, just let me have a kip afterwards

 

Keep enjoying the wall, it all helps, it really does. The trick is to remember when you pull the big orange jug, it's a little brown jug outside with the wind and cloud nipping at your heals. You're wall grade is fine, nothing on the matterhorn is even close to that level of difficulty, exposure though... Now go up 3000m, wear big boots. In fact on your next wall session, try a 4>5>6 in your boots  

 

If it helps at all, I only do 6b in the walls; but try to do lots of it,  and lead the odd e2 outside.  I'd probably be wary of heading up anything more than 6a in the alps at 3000m+ without a serious amount of gumption cereal.

 

See you on the otherside.

 

Colin.

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Be aware and take care of what is forecast for Saturday.

Tonight is very much a possibility of seeing the Northern Lights.

WH-MWI-WM11121_2017-03-02_131256_7240000.pdf

Edited 2 March, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Jrjg]

16 hours ago, Breckie said:

At the severe risk of being considered a grouch/killjoy I would have to say that neither the wall nor the nice day out in the Lake District will be much good for undertaking a wee trip to Mont Blanc.

 

As regards the Lake District trip it sounds "character building" but of limited use for the Alps. You have to get used to long days out moving together over tricky ground. Unless, of course, you each intend to go solo.

 

As regards the wall I'd unfortunately have to say that it doesn't bare any resemblance to climbing outdoors. I remember that two of us took someone to the Ben on an easy summer climb. Said "novice" wasn't too happy on this easy peasy route as he'd spent most of the winter on the wall and thought that he was **** hot. We didn't get very far however before the dreaded sewing machine leg appeared. That's life though & once he really got going on the outdoorsy stuff he flew onwards and upwards.

 

Advice if you're interested...........get outdoors and enjoy what's out there. Sorry for the sermon........

Not at all Breckie, I definitely realise that six hours spent wandering up a reasonably steep mountain, in poor conditions in the Lakes is nothing compared to even winter conditions in Scotland, never mind the Alps! My main aim from the scrambling, as well as the scrambling still to come (lots planned!) is to gain some experience in scramble/climbing in boots. 

 

I'm also well aware that grades mean next to nothing when comparing indoor/outdoor climbs. I'm sure that pushing myself indoors will only ever help and won't hinder when we finally get climbing outside. I'm fully expecting to attempt my first moderate outdoor rock climb (more than likely being top roped or seconding) and be shaking like a leaf. 

Although I'd like to think some of the 'off the beaten track' scrambling I have done will prepare me slightly for the exposure, I'm sure most rock climbs are far more intimidating. 

 

I appreciate your comments, I'd say you're no killjoy, more a concerned spectator trying to ensure I don't kill myself!  

 

JRJG 

[kit]

^^^^^ what's been said above, being a wall monkey is great but being hill fit and hill experienced take years. My GF is gym/marathon/wall fit but lags waaaayyy behind me when we are on the hill. Use the wall for technique but get outside as much as you can and put yourself in different scenarios. Its all great breaking a leg indoors and having an ambo ten minutes away but think about when your on some crag in the butt end of nowhere. Being on the hill is a never ending lesson, you'll never stop learning.

 

K:)

[Breckie]

17 hours ago, ColinD said:

Currently battling the weather up in the highlands. Sunday, < 250m visibility, monday, sunburn alpine like conditions. Off for the five sisters tomorrow I think, one more whiskey to settle the debate.

 

as @Breckie says the path to experience is long. I'm still happy to do a few days out, just let me have a kip afterwards

 

Keep enjoying the wall, it all helps, it really does. The trick is to remember when you pull the big orange jug, it's a little brown jug outside with the wind and cloud nipping at your heals. You're wall grade is fine, nothing on the matterhorn is even close to that level of difficulty, exposure though... Now go up 3000m, wear big boots. In fact on your next wall session, try a 4>5>6 in your boots  

 

If it helps at all, I only do 6b in the walls; but try to do lots of it,  and lead the odd e2 outside.  I'd probably be wary of heading up anything more than 6a in the alps at 3000m+ without a serious amount of gumption cereal.

 

See you on the otherside.

 

Colin.

 

 

 

Yep nice trip in Winter. Either the Brothers or the Sisters. Great routes. Nice ridges. The slog up to the bealach is a ball breaker though.

[Breckie]

3 hours ago, Jrjg said:

Not at all Breckie, I definitely realise that six hours spent wandering up a reasonably steep mountain, in poor conditions in the Lakes is nothing compared to even winter conditions in Scotland, never mind the Alps! My main aim from the scrambling, as well as the scrambling still to come (lots planned!) is to gain some experience in scramble/climbing in boots. 

 

I'm also well aware that grades mean next to nothing when comparing indoor/outdoor climbs. I'm sure that pushing myself indoors will only ever help and won't hinder when we finally get climbing outside. I'm fully expecting to attempt my first moderate outdoor rock climb (more than likely being top roped or seconding) and be shaking like a leaf. 

Although I'd like to think some of the 'off the beaten track' scrambling I have done will prepare me slightly for the exposure, I'm sure most rock climbs are far more intimidating. 

 

I appreciate your comments, I'd say you're no killjoy, more a concerned spectator trying to ensure I don't kill myself!  

 

JRJG 

Thanks for taking it like that. I really mean no harm..........honest. Your right though in that death can really screw up your enjoyment of things.

Whatever.........just enjoy what you do & stay safe.

[Jrjg]

10 minutes ago, Breckie said:

Thanks for taking it like that. I really mean no harm..........honest. Your right though in that death can really screw up your enjoyment of things.

Whatever.........just enjoy what you do & stay safe.

 

To quote from a climbing book I was reading recently; 

"With adventure comes danger. Just ask all my friends who have died in the mountains". 

 

That's one of the things that gives climbing, mountaineering, scrambling etc it's appeal. 

Mankind's instinct of curiousity and exploration! 

I'll do my best to stay safe, the learning curve is steep and unapologetic. I intend to spend many many hours (and then many more) preparing and gaining experience yet before even considering booking flights to Geneva. 

 

JRJG 

[Breckie]

3 minutes ago, Jrjg said:

 

To quote from a climbing book I was reading recently; 

"With adventure comes danger. Just ask all my friends who have died in the mountains". 

 

That's one of the things that gives climbing, mountaineering, scrambling etc it's appeal. 

Mankind's instinct of curiousity and exploration! 

I'll do my best to stay safe, the learning curve is steep and unapologetic. I intend to spend many many hours (and then many more) preparing and gaining experience yet before even considering booking flights to Geneva. 

 

JRJG 

Yep it's an interesting old life. Here are two "videos" of that way of life that I quite like......

1)

AND a route I highly recommend

 

 

[Jrjg]

Got my first piece of 'rack' today for a birthday present: A Dmm bug belay device with locking karabiner. 

I keep looking at bits and bats on EBay. What is the general conensus on buying second hand gear, in my opinion I'd be happy to trust it as long as it hasn't got a crack/tear in it. But what do others think?

In the ideal world I'd buy everything brand new but I don't have an endless budget. Luckily I may be able to halve some costs with my friend (rope, quick draws, maybe cams), especially if it is just the two of us climbing somewhere and therefore only needing one rope, one set of quick draws etc, makes sense to halve the price.  

 

JRJG 

[Jrjg]

Just come back from a ski trip in Austria, had a huge amount of snow down over the week. Me and my climbing friend were drooling at some of the arètes and frozen waterfalls there. On one of the busiest days we had (queueing for thirty minutes for lifts at one point!) I really wished I had left the snowboard in the chalet, hired boots, crampons and an ice axe and gone for a hike. It would of been much more enjoyable. 

[ColinD]

Super the bug is working it's way.

 

Although with a winter alps pack on, making headway up those ridges, you might be forgiven for wishing you were in the sun on your board

 

Re second hand kit... Generally speaking, metal things will be ok. You won't see a hairline crack and that will fail. You can't tell one of my red biners from another. Except one of them I dropped over 150' onto a granite boulder. That is no where near my main rack now! I have lots of old metal things, nuts, cams in the garage for my winter or big easy mountain day, they are old and can be left if lost. Check wires for rust etc.... The exception is tape! 

 

Tape generically speaking covers slings, extenders and harnesses. I would not really buy this second hand. Damage to these can be very easily done and invisible. There are many reports of tape products being eroded by chemicals in a boot, invisible to the eye and then failing. It's simply not worth it. Likewise a rope I would avoid that unless you know the person really well and they are willing to tie onto it!

 

Then some can be stolen! It does make sense to share cost on kit. I'd say for general climbing in the mountains, you don't need cams. Nice as they are and oh my how they can be so very nice when you're run out... generally in the mountains, they are overkill. I'd suggest a set of nuts, 1 thru 10 is ample! A set of hexes. Look at the sets in the shop, you'll see how the sizes overlap. Hexes whilst fuddy duddy are still some of the best protection ever invented, once you understand them.  At 10ea versus 60ea, you can lose the odd one. I never have but I've found plenty of friends; seemingly jammed and abandoned, but actually easily recovered with a knack 

 

Most UK rock climbs do not need a rope longer than 50m. Almost all the routes < e3 would of been done on less, so many pitches are 23m or 34m, some venues command 45m. many of the old mountain routes were also put up in boots, rope around waste with tri core string, so straight lines tended to be the way they went. So a 50m rope is ample it also works in the mountains. I'd not get too concerned about single, double or twins... I'd grab a sensible priced 50m single 9.8mm or 10mm with dry treatment. It makes the rope last a bit longer. 50m is workable moving together too. If you each take 10m then you have 30m between you and ensuring 2 items of gear thats one every 10m, which is ample.  This will also be easier to understand how to use for the first few months/years.

 

Harness in the mountains: yes for comfort, but you can also use the rope, a section of cut rope or a sling, although the new ones are bloody uncomfortable. If you're cragging then yes it makes sense to get one. Try it on, hang in the shop for 20mins. Then you know if it fits and how you feel (high pitch). 4 gear loops is enough, more is complexity. Padding is optional, really where you use it most. If in the hills then I'd strongly think about adjustable leg loops, or you maybe taking boots off... easy on the ground, not so easy half way up!

 

Oh, now, if buying new tapes, take a moment to understand. New tapes get there strength from the fibres, if it's fuzzy, that's weaker, each fuzzy fibre is one less doing it's job. When scrambling, apes are perhaps the most useful item you'll have. You can't have too many and you'll run out or not use any. I'd grab 4 60cm, 2 120cm and 1 240cm. The last one can double up as a harness.

 

I'd also grab a 5m length of 7mm static tat, simply for tieing around things and practise at home on the sofa.

 

screwgates etc... some will disagree, you don't always need to use them. Two normal snaps back to back will also work. Generally if something is near an edge or in the mess of my harness I'll use a screwgate. Petzl make some nice light weight ones, orange atm I think. I'd grab one big HMS style then 2 or 4 of the orange petzl ones. To that I'd carry a few normal gated karabiners too. Then one normal gate for each sling too. If you grabbed hexes, then one per 2 of the hexes, so if 8 hexes, 4 straights. Nuts, 1 or 2 also for them, I'd advocate 2 so you don't drop them all in one go, split them 1-5 6-10

 

The bug is a great mountaineering plate, grab a prussick cord too, iirc the bug is pretty fast on abseil.

 

Extenders, depends on volume of cragging. crag's anything from 1 every 5m to 1 in 30m or 5 in 1m... a half dozen should suffice iniitally. You can always use the snap link biners directly into an item of gear, e.g. nut. Slings andhexes become there own extender, so you don't need to always place a hex and an extender. Sometimes you'll place hex and extend with a sling... thats why those extra spare odd normal karabiners come in handy

 

Quick safety bit:

 

A rope can be 'dynamic' it absorbs the shock. A sling isn't it's static. The ones you'll buy today are dynmena and they are very static. A drop of 20cm from a ledge onto it can be enough to snap it. So imagine you arrived at a ledge, clip into the belay, then begin to move about and sort kit out. Lets say you step up to reach something, that step being 25cms... you now have a slack static sling between you and the 'anchor'. If you fell now, you're at real risk of snapping said sling. It's why ideally you'd use the rope to secure, but it's a easy thing to use as it's quick!