Completed at last. So where does It go from here.

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/vauxhall-PSA-Group-takeover

****e. Im now driving a Peugot

 

14 hours ago, vrskeith said:

Completed at last. So where does It go from here.

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/vauxhall-PSA-Group-takeover

More badge engineering?.

Just another company to cross off the list of cars  not to buy!

After 20+ years of being forced to drive a variety of Vauxhalls as company cars I swore I would never own for drive another one.

 

11 years on this has merely strengthened my resolve.

Q&A on the merger -

http://articles.sae.org/15497/

PSA accused of emissions cheating.

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/psa-group-accused-using-emissions-cheat-software-two-million-cars

^^^^^ could.......might......sounds familiar 

7 hours ago, Ryeman said:

^^^^^ could.......might......sounds familiar 

 

Whilst the Audi-SEAT-SKODA-VW cheat effective 11m cars was to fool the rolling road emissions test the Citroen-Peugeot software aftercting 2m cars, as I understand it, was to minimise NOX emissions in town crawling but allow more drive-ability in extra-urban scenarios so a bit like the Renault situation for the 15k diesel cars we are not talking either the same type of offence or scale.

 

As to PSA, now being one of the big three in Europe, along with Nissan-Renault and VAG, we remain on tender-hooks as to what will happen to the GM plant in Liverpool as  well as GM-PSA jobs in Luton, which are in the many thousands, and whether a bad BREXIT deal will put those jobs in jeopardy.  

 

 

 

 

By "we" I assume you mean "I"

 

BTW the word is tenterhooks not tender-hooks.

6 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

as I understand it, was to minimise NOX emissions in town crawling but allow more drive-ability in extra-urban scenarios.

What is the source of information to lead you to assuming this is the case? 

According to Reuters:

Quote

So-called “defeat devices” restrict exhaust output of toxic nitrogen oxides (NOx) under regulatory test conditions while letting emissions far exceed legal limits in real-world driving.

In February PSA became the fourth carmaker to be referred to French prosecutors by the country’s DGCCRF watchdog over suspected emissions test-cheating, after Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE), Renault (RENA.PA) and Fiat Chrysler (FCHA.MI).

PSA’s engineering chief acknowledged at the time that emissions treatment in the group’s diesels was deliberately reduced at higher temperatures to improve fuel efficiency and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions in out-of-town driving, where NOx output is considered less critical.

According to Le Monde, an internal PSA document obtained by DGCCRF investigators includes discussion of the need to “make the ‘defeat device’ aspect less obvious and visible”.

 

On 9/9/2017 at 12:45, moley said:

What is the source of information to lead you to assuming this is the case? 

According to Reuters:

 

 

Indeed.    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-peugeot-diesel/french-probe-alleges-2-million-psa-cars-had-engine-cheats-le-monde-idUSKCN1BJ12J

 

"PSA’s engineering chief acknowledged at the time that emissions treatment in the group’s diesels was deliberately reduced at higher temperatures to improve fuel efficiency and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions in out-of-town driving, where NOx output is considered less critical."

 

So a bit less EGR when the vehicle was out of town driving but this would have been measured in the driving cycle and is nothing like the VW cheat on knowing it was on the rolling road and tweaking the engine settings in benefit of lower emissions.

 

The PSA EMU would have done what it is described and its emissions measured.  Feb long time ago and still nothing substantial out of the audit where as VW has paid billions to government and personnel started long prison sentences.  

 

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/foreign/2017/08/25/vw-engineer-laing-sentencing-diesel-emissions-scandal/104935982/

Detroit — A stiffer-than-expected sentence Friday for a “brilliant” Volkswagen engineer who helped perpetuate a $25 billion diesel emission scandal helps atone for the perception that business leaders and executives receive free passes for corporate wrongdoing, legal experts said.  VW engineer James Liang’s 40-month sentence and $200,000 fine for his role in a worldwide scandal that defrauded American consumers could foreshadow tough treatment for seven other executives charged in the scandal, including one awaiting sentencing in December.  The tough sentence from U.S. District Judge Sean Cox makes it more likely VW executives indicted in January will remain in Germany and not be brought to justice, experts said.  “It sends a very strong message to them that they better stay safely in Germany,” said Peter Henning, a Wayne State University law professor and former federal prosecutor. “We haven’t seen many individuals being held responsible for corporate misconduct, so this is one of those rare cases.”     Liang, 63, who helped devise software that cheated emissions tests and lied to government regulators, is the first person sentenced to federal prison in the scandal. He struck a plea deal with prosecutors in September and helped investigators unravel the scandal.  The sentence was surprising considering that prosecutors recommended Liang spend three years in federal prison and pay a $20,000 fine. Defense lawyers wanted Liang sentenced to home confinement and a nominal fine, arguing the 120-pound man was too old and slight to serve time in a federal prison.  “Judge Cox dropped the hammer in a way that I don’t think anyone expected,” Henning said.  The judge faulted Liang for conspiring in a scandal that eroded trust between American consumers and car companies.    “The conspiracy perpetrated a massive … and stunning fraud on the American consumer that attacked and destroyed the very foundation of our economic system,” Cox told Liang. “It was a very serious and troubling crime.

  

43 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Indeed.    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-peugeot-diesel/french-probe-alleges-2-million-psa-cars-had-engine-cheats-le-monde-idUSKCN1BJ12J

 

"PSA’s engineering chief acknowledged at the time that emissions treatment in the group’s diesels was deliberately reduced at higher temperatures to improve fuel efficiency and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions in out-of-town driving, where NOx output is considered less critical."

 

So a bit less EGR when the vehicle was out of town driving but this would have been measured in the driving cycle and is nothing like the VW cheat on knowing it was on the rolling road and tweaking the engine settings in benefit of lower emissions.  

VW went for the route one cheat to achieve a correct test result on emissions, other manufactures have gone for a more subtle way of cheating. If all of the manufactures had not 'tweaked' the software in some way their real world emissions would have been a lot closer to the lab tests. 

In real world emissions a lot of VW engines with the 'cheat' software produce NOx than  other vehicles without a 'cheat' device. 

Is this the thin end of the Brexit affect wedge.

 

Convenient excuse or what?

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/vauxhall-set-axe-400-jobs-ellesmere-port-plant

Brexit is only a small part of it, and that would be the exchange rate making UK built astras more expensive when exported than ones built elsewhere in europe.

The other reason stated in the article is that there is not enough demand for them to warrant the 2nd shift. 

What is not mentioned but is well known, is the overcapacity for car builing in europe as it is, the fact that vauxhall/opel hemmorages money and psa needs to do something about it. The UK was always going to be the first line in the cost cutting, not because of brexit, but because of high wages, relative low productivity at ellesmere port (thanks to not selling many astras) and the fact that our labour laws makes it fairly easy for companies to make people redundant compared to France, Germany and elsewhere.

Downturn in sales very convenient ?

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/vauxhall-terminate-all-dealer-contracts-major-uk-overhaul

 

Had a Vauxhall for 8 years, moved around the country a lot during that time - never found one trustworthy franchised garage. Good riddance to the lot of them.

List of things that have given up on my insignia has outstripped the Octy in 18months compared 4 1/2 yrs with the octy.

I wonder what my local family owned Vauxhall dealership does, they also have a Kia dealership next door.

In the past they had Toyota and Subaru dealerships.

Got to say I enjoyed my Astra diesel (Astra j) that I had before my Fabia was my first Vauxhall and was impressed with it but alas we needed a estate car so the Fabia replaced it.

 

Davy

Had an Astra J as a hire car a couple of years back, and it wasnt a bad vehicle for the testing i got to to give it at the time. Keep getting focuses (focii?) Lately though, even when its "Astra or similar" at booking. The astra was actually a "focus or similar" rental.... go figure on that

 

More on topic, seems Opel Ireland is gonna get a hammering too.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/opel-puts-all-its-european-dealers-under-notice-1.3464395?mode=amp

 

Sales down 34% so far this year, against 22% in vx sales in UK. All the dealer contracts also getting axed in 2020, same as UK vx.

I wouldnt be surprised if part of the major shake up for the UK is shelving the VX marque and only selling Opels. 

 

Psa parts sharing including chassis - the 2020 astra is going to be a pug 308 with some badge engineering, and likely an awful gearbox and worse electrics (electric/hybrids... designed by citroen...) .. who'll give a me a fiver in that bet?

Regards VX, I don't think so. Current UK ad campaign stressing "a British brand since 1903".

Reintroduce Opel after so long and the customers will be more confused.

Edited 17 April, 20188 yr by camelspyyder

I read that the dealership overhaul is across Europe for Opel / vauxhall and not just the UK. Probably end up with Peugeot or Citroën dealers adding Vauxhall on the same site. 

5 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

Regards VX, I don't think so. Current UK ad campaign stressing "a British brand since 1903".

Reintroduce Opel after so long and the customers will be more confused.

 

I loved my Opel Manta, it felt something special compared to a Vauxhall badge ie German engineering compare to UK so-so at the time.  All built by robots.

 

Lots of Vauxhalls/Opels biult in Spain, seeing them coming off the car boat at Bristol by the hundreds of thousands.  All will have to be customs cleared and possible duties paid in just over a year so prices will factor this in and who will be able to afford them then is questionable.