If anyone cares

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20170306/ANE/170309852/1164

Or I could just buy an A7

1 minute ago, Aspman said:

Or I could just buy an A7

Ah!

another badge job

Bet the VW isn't much cheaper and you can get an A7 now.

2 minutes ago, Aspman said:

Bet the VW isn't much cheaper and you can get an A7 now.

I guess it's on the same assembly line, otherwise what's the point?.

VW "peoples car", Audi "car for the upper classes": Badge snobbery at it best :http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-geneva-motor-show/tesla-model-s-forces-radical-rethink-next-volkswagen-phaeton

 

Which one is the best in class!? 

Edited 8 March, 20179 yr by vrskeith

The exterior is surprisingly handsome and I'd easily have this (as pictured in R-Line trim) over every other non flagship variant of its rivals (A5, 5 series, E Class). Interior is ok but it desperately needs bespoke/different seats and steering wheel (I don't mean buckets and alcantara ) because the ones in the pictures look like they have just come out of a 1.4 TSI Golf - you don't need that sort of association in your premium saloon/fast-back.

 

Now a proper Arteon "R" with circa 400bhp, AWD and a tad tighter chassis would be interesting stuff but I guess that would be stepping on Audi's toes... 

As others have said just another badge job with lower specs to meet a budget. VAG need to show something different between the brands as it all just merges into one boring pot at the moment.

11 minutes ago, CWARD said:

As others have said just another badge job with lower specs to meet a budget. VAG need to show something different between the brands as it all just merges into one boring pot at the moment.

Ford , BMW etc. it seems familiar most relates to profitability, tooling cost , shared components etc.

 

Pay more, you can have individuality.

At the time the Phaeton launched it was considered best in class by a lot of the motoring press if you ignored the badge. It was a big part of Piech's brand strategy at the time: he wanted to position VW as a rival to Mercedes (comfort-oriented) and make Audi the BMW rival (sporty). Badge snobbery was always against it though. He might have had a better shot if he'd gone after the E-Class first and built a reputation there.

 

From reading the article the OP posted, it seems like this is much more aimed at China anyway and if they pick up any buyers in other markets it'll be a bonus.

35 minutes ago, CWARD said:

As others have said just another badge job with lower specs to meet a budget. VAG need to show something different between the brands as it all just merges into one boring pot at the moment.

 

With all the shared platforms and collaborations out there today (not just VAG) most cars fall under that category so even if it is, it doesn't mean much to me to be honest. It is a great looking car in my eyes and that's more important than being a bespoke platform/design, or at least would be if I was after a car in that class.

The shared platforms, tooling etc saves costs between the brands but not really benefiting the customer who doesn't see this cost saving or better quality for the price. They are all pretty much the same with very little to get excited about unless you go for the premium brand with the lesser brands getting less and less until you end with Skoda and Seat where the quality of fittings have taken a massive u-turn with panels creaking and cheaper materials used. 

Ford, BMW etc may use shared components but at least they are individual brands differing from their competition.

5 minutes ago, CWARD said:

The shared platforms, tooling etc saves costs between the brands but not really benefiting the customer who doesn't see this cost saving or better quality for the price. They are all pretty much the same with very little to get excited about unless you go for the premium brand with the lesser brands getting less and less until you end with Skoda and Seat where the quality of fittings have taken a massive u-turn with panels creaking and cheaper materials used. 

Ford, BMW etc may use shared components but at least they are individual brands differing from their competition.

Think you better look again, Fiesta, Focus, 1series, 2 series, 3 series >>> MB>>>>> etc.

Edited 8 March, 20179 yr by vrskeith

I certainly like the look of this; but not  really what i'm after.

The image is certainly a huge improvement over the Phaeton.

12 minutes ago, vrskeith said:

Think you better look again, Fiesta, Focus, 1series, 2 series, 3 series >>> MB>>>>> etc.

 

Driven all those brands and they look and feel different to each other which is something you can't say for VAG. The qualities you get in each of those brands remains the same between the different cars too unlike VAG which gets less from Audi down.

Phaeton was a rebadged Bentley was it not? With a reputation for VW looks and Bentley parts prices.

 

Too often the strategy of companies looking to move their products up is to take an ordinary product and apply some extraordinary pricing.

However if I take a Passat and price it the same as a Porsche Panamera the majority of people won't look at that (at least those not employed in marketing) and say "Wow that Passat must be as good as a Porsche", they say "that's a ****ing expensive Passat".

 

I would also guess that most people in the market for a car like a Passat CC will probably buy an Audi A5/7 because if you're looking for a coupified saloon then you are probably buying a car more for style than practicality or performance, and the badge will mean more to you than Joe Average.

 

I would also guess VWs aims of aiming high are slightly ****ed becasue of their tendency to cut corners and cheat these days.

 

35 minutes ago, CWARD said:

The shared platforms, tooling etc saves costs between the brands but not really benefiting the customer who doesn't see this cost saving or better quality for the price. They are all pretty much the same with very little to get excited about unless you go for the premium brand with the lesser brands getting less and less until you end with Skoda and Seat where the quality of fittings have taken a massive u-turn with panels creaking and cheaper materials used. 

Ford, BMW etc may use shared components but at least they are individual brands differing from their competition.

 

Again, being a one-off exclusive design (rather unusual for that class) or sharing underpinnings with another 20 vehicles is of very little importance to the end customer as such if the value for money is good - and I think that it is in general (for other VW models - we've no idea on the Arteon's pricing). You are using the badge job argument as if it is the main factor on whether a car is good or not which is totally unrelated imo. There are things you lose as you go down but price drops accordingly so you can get what's best suited for your requirements and budget. I drove a Skoda before, I have sufficient experience from Audis and lately drive a VW. I would say that surprisingly the VW might be the best vfm option on a few models out there. Skoda's have gone up to a point that it doesn't make much sense to not go VW for 1-2K more, and Audi's ridiculous premium on the exact same extras means you must really be after that upper class feel in your life to justify a 15-25% premium for identically equipped cars. Not saying it's bad but purely from a value for money point of view. And honestly strictly between the Golf and A3 I would be hard pressed to see the extra added Audi value if I look anywhere else than the top part of the dash...

 

We've no idea on the Arteon prices, equipment etc. and how it compares to the A5 overall. With a design like that it certainly is quite promising.

Edited 8 March, 20179 yr by newbie69

2 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

 

Again, being a one-off exclusive design (rather unusual for that class) or sharing underpinnings with another 20 vehicles is of very little importance to the end customer as such if the value for money is good - and I think that it is in general (for other VW models we've no idea on the Arteon's pricing). You are using the badge job argument as if it is the main factor on whether a car is good or not which is totally unrelated imo. There are things you lose as you go down but price drops accordingly so you can get what's best suited for your requirements and budget. I drove a Skoda before, I have sufficient experience from Audis and lately drive a VW. I would say that surprisingly the VW might be the best vfm option on a few models out there. Skoda's have gone up to a point that it doesn't make much sense to not go VW for 1-2K more, and Audi's ridiculous premium on the exact same extras means you must really be after that upper class feel in your life to justify a 15-25% premium for identically equipped cars. And honestly strictly between the Golf and A3 I would be hard pressed to see the extra added Audi value if I look anywhere else than the top part of the dash...

 

We've no idea on the Arteon prices, equipment etc. and how it compares to the A5 overall. With a design like that it certainly is quite promising.

 

VAG have always differentiated between the models to meet the budgets whilst also giving the illusion that you are getting the same quality. Whilst I agree with you for VFM there isn't much between Audi and VW other than the trim and usually a few more bells and whistles on the premium brand.

The differences between a VW and a Skoda are much bigger. Yes they may share the same platforms, engines and gearboxes and to a certain extent switch gear. Look further into it and the cost cutting becomes evident with cheaper suspension components, heater components, cabin materials and fittings. Much of the build being previous generation.

As you've said between a Golf and an A3 is the Audi really much different other than a different badge, image and price. Compare it again to the Octavia and whilst they share major components the quality differences soon become evident and is the Skoda actual good value compared to the VW. The differences and feel between the various brands isn't that great it's either latest generation with or without all the extras or last generation with cost savings. 

The badge job of Audi being better and everything is far from my point. My point is that all VAG cars are a VW and they are either a higher spec with a more expensive interior and they call it an Audi or it's the previous generation and cost cutting and they call it Skoda or Seat. 

 

 

38 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

VAG have always differentiated between the models to meet the budgets whilst also giving the illusion that you are getting the same quality. Whilst I agree with you for VFM there isn't much between Audi and VW other than the trim and usually a few more bells and whistles on the premium brand.

The differences between a VW and a Skoda are much bigger. Yes they may share the same platforms, engines and gearboxes and to a certain extent switch gear. Look further into it and the cost cutting becomes evident with cheaper suspension components, heater components, cabin materials and fittings. Much of the build being previous generation.

As you've said between a Golf and an A3 is the Audi really much different other than a different badge, image and price. Compare it again to the Octavia and whilst they share major components the quality differences soon become evident and is the Skoda actual good value compared to the VW. The differences and feel between the various brands isn't that great it's either latest generation with or without all the extras or last generation with cost savings. 

The badge job of Audi being better and everything is far from my point. My point is that all VAG cars are a VW and they are either a higher spec with a more expensive interior and they call it an Audi or it's the previous generation and cost cutting and they call it Skoda or Seat. 

 

 

 

But we are talking about a VW here, not a Seat not a Skoda and not an Audi so why do we need to discuss VAG differentiation across its brands? This is the "mother" brand indeed.

 

Also in your last sentence above you say the A5 is just a higher spec/fancy gadget loaded VW but back to your first post you implied the Arteon strikes you as just a lower-spec Audi (which given that Audi usually outclasses most of its rivals (even German ones) is not a bad thing to say either). So which one is it then? Again, not that it says a single thing about whether the final car will be an interesting suggestion or not with so little knowledge at the moment.

 

In an effort to get back on topic I have to say VW seem to have dared designing something uber exciting by VW standards and even exciting by overall current standards as well so that's certainly some news. I don't think the Arteon can be considered a Phaeton's successor for a series of reasons most notably the powetrain and components in the Arteon that have a way humbler origin. Also, being VW it also makes more sense to try and get a share of the entry-level premium saloon class than jump directly to hyper-lux limousines as tried the Phaeton back in its time.

Edited 8 March, 20179 yr by newbie69

44 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

Also in your last sentence above you say the A5 is just a higher spec/fancy gadget loaded VW but back to your first post you implied the Arteon strikes you as just a lower-spec Audi (which given that Audi usually outclasses most of its rivals (even German ones) is not a bad thing to say either). So which one is it then? Again, not that it says a single thing about whether the final car will be an interesting suggestion or not with so little knowledge at the moment.

 

With the same platform they are both VAG cars with different badges as Audi usually showcase the newer developments first then I would say the Arteon is a lower spec Audi. Never said it was bad thing just dull variation between brands. 

 

Quote

The exterior is surprisingly handsome and I'd easily have this (as pictured in R-Line trim) over every other non flagship variant of its rivals (A5, 5 series, E Class). Interior is ok but it desperately needs bespoke/different seats and steering wheel (I don't mean buckets and alcantara ) because the ones in the pictures look like they have just come out of a 1.4 TSI Golf - you don't need that sort of association in your premium saloon/fast-back.

 

Now a proper Arteon "R" with circa 400bhp, AWD and a tad tighter chassis would be interesting stuff but I guess that would be stepping on Audi's toes... 

 

Pretty much what you said in your first post that you seem to arguing against now.

20 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

With the same platform they are both VAG cars with different badges as Audi usually showcase the newer developments first then I would say the Arteon is a lower spec Audi. Never said it was bad thing just dull variation between brands. 

 

 

Pretty much what you said in your first post that you seem to arguing against now.

 

Dull is far from the first word that came to mind when I saw the design lines, front and rear masks but obviously to each his own and it's no surprise that many people will rush to tag any VW item as dull before even taking a good look at it. Still I'd say much less dull than other german competitors especially some that their current dash and tacho seems unchanged since at least their 2006 predecessors, now that's what I'd call dated... 

 

Sorry, I don't see that I'm arguing against anything I said before, can you elaborate? Sure a Arteon R with the specs I wrote would be very appealing and backed up by such looks I'd have it over any A5/S5 sportback, 5 series or E-Class sport saloons. If the VAG policy would "allow" for that or not is basically my speculation but it's not the first time I will be criticising their marketing decisions. I've said it before that they have great engineers but unpleasant marketing departments...

Edited 8 March, 20179 yr by newbie69

15 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

Sorry, I don't see that I'm arguing against anything I said before, can you elaborate

 

19 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

it's no surprise that many people will rush to tag any VW item as dull before even taking a good look at it.

 

4 hours ago, newbie69 said:

Interior is ok but it desperately needs bespoke/different seats and steering wheel

 

Is it exciting or OK? Would it benefit from having a better interior from say something like.... an Audi

 

 

Such a radical design I wonder where they got their inspiration from 

5 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

 

 

Is it exciting or OK? Would it benefit from having a better interior from say something like.... an Audi

 

Certainly not an ageing and cluttered ,with add-ons 3,4,5 or 7 series that's for sure