Recall on diesel cooling issue?

[Ootohere]

Some help please for a member unable to post just now.

 

?

Has anyone here that had Warranty Work done as in the Coolant changed, then water pumps replaced then had further failures / overheating out of Manufacturers Warranty and had 

Skoda UK pay up to have the next water pump fitted?

[MagicMaciek]

23 hours ago, Skoffski said:

Some help please for a member unable to post just now.

 

?

Has anyone here that had Warranty Work done as in the Coolant changed, then water pumps replaced then had further failures / overheating out of Manufacturers Warranty and had 

Skoda UK pay up to have the next water pump fitted?

 

I will let others with experience to answer.

 

Touch wood, my Fabia 1.4TDI is nearly 4 years old and only 30k and I have not had overheating problems ...yet. My earlier recall that was done by dealer for the previous owner only included coolant flush, from what I could see from the invoices.

 

We all know there is a design flaw in the pump, but vendor is only guaranteeing proper functioning of the car for the duration of the warranty agreement. I would not think Skoda/VW would be keen on paying for your repair until you push them into the corner and arrange some class- legal action backed by 1000's of users in similar situation.

 

Good luck with your quest and keep us here on the forum posted as there will be quite a few people in similar situation.

 

[Ootohere]

Cheers.

The member will post once they have dealt with Skoda UK Customer Services and a Resolutions Manager, they know how to deal with them from past experience when they are ignoring issues that they know were not resolved by doing the minimum with a Service Campaign or what they might call a Recall Action and then wash their hands of it after a car reaches 2 years old or 3 in the UK.

Individuals are left fighting their own corner or sometimes getting feed up and just trading in these cars with un-resolved issues and then the cars just do the rounds in the motor trade.

[Sittingbull]

On 09/05/2019 at 13:57, Skoffski said:

Cheers.

The member will post once they have dealt with Skoda UK Customer Services and a Resolutions Manager, they know how to deal with them from past experience when they are ignoring issues that they know were not resolved by doing the minimum with a Service Campaign or what they might call a Recall Action and then wash their hands of it after a car reaches 2 years old or 3 in the UK.

Individuals are left fighting their own corner or sometimes getting feed up and just trading in these cars with un-resolved issues and then the cars just do the rounds in the motor trade.

 

Complaint has been raised in writing this morning, no punches pulled.

 

My daughter had to have the car recovered from a remote area as it had flashed the engine overheating message in bright red while she was on her way to meet her Gran with her new born son and 3 year old daughter in the car. She is far from happy to discover that this known issue may not have been properly addressed by Lookers Skoda in Newcastle prior to her ownership, when they changed the coolant but perhaps didn't go ahead and change the water pump. If they have changed the pump, then it has failed again.

 

I will update on any progress.

[Sittingbull]

On 11/05/2019 at 11:13, Sittingbull said:

 

Complaint has been raised in writing this morning, no punches pulled.

 

My daughter had to have the car recovered from a remote area as it had flashed the engine overheating message in bright red while she was on her way to meet her Gran with her new born son and 3 year old daughter in the car. She is far from happy to discover that this known issue may not have been properly addressed by Lookers Skoda in Newcastle prior to her ownership, when they changed the coolant but perhaps didn't go ahead and change the water pump. If they have changed the pump, then it has failed again.

 

I will update on any progress.

 

Just a quick update, no response as yet from Skoda UK and the situation got much worse for my daughter and son in law yesterday. The lad also owns a mk3 Fabia 1.4tdi (2015 SE L) and it too has now come down with the exact same problem, and almost unbelievably it happened on the same road as they made another attempt to go visit Great Gran with the new baby.

 

Like my daughter's, the lad's car has also had the coolant changed prior to him taking ownership, but no record of water pump change, and again it is out of manufacturers warranty.

 

The lad is sending the car to get fixed locally and then taking the fight separately, they desperately need a car on the road that is trustworthy. 

[Sittingbull]

Quick update

 

Still no response from Skoda UK, it appears they couldn't care less. Disgusted with them, but they should know some people don't walk away.

 

 

 

 

[TimShaw]

I had the same issue yesterday. Kids in the car on the way camping. High temp warning. I had to nurse it all the way to the campsite going slow and pulling over to let it cool enough for impending hills. I’m heading back tomorrow so wish me luck. I spoke to my local dealer. The lady was nice enough, she said they ‘may’ fix it as a good Will gesture as I’ve said I’m aware it’s a latent defect. I’ll keep you posted. 

[mbc]

In my case using a low RPM got it hotter compared to using a high RPM. I was climbing a hill  and I was going pretty calm, but it was a long hill. Somewhere in the middle the engine started overheating and I changed down a gear and floored it. The temperature went back down quite quiclky. I think this is because the water pump looses efficiency but at higher RPM is will pump enough so it won't overheat.

 

I had a manual transmission so it was easy to manage the RPM, in a DSG you might want to use the "sport" setting on the gearbox.

[TimShaw]

I’ve just noticed the radiator fan isn’t working either. I’m assuming it can’t be the sensor as the dashboard knows it’s getting hot?

[mbc]

The fan is not working (most likely) because it's not needed. The hot coolant does not reach the radiator because of the broken water pump. At least this was the situation in my case.

[TimShaw]

That makes sense 👌

[Sittingbull]

Just to update on my daughter's car.

 

Pleased to report that the car is now fixed, with help in obtaining new genuine parts and coolant from Techie and Mike at parts@briskoda. Local lad done the job, total cost including the new parts was £305.

 

I've kept receipts and going back to Skoda UK.

 

 

[TimShaw]

Mine is sorted as well. My warranty had ended 2 months ago but they gave me a good Will gesture on the work. Having a new water pump, diagnostics and timing belt for £345. Not happy with the customer service though, cold, couldn’t be bothered and no empathy 

[Sittingbull]

On 28/08/2019 at 20:33, TimShaw said:

Mine is sorted as well. My warranty had ended 2 months ago but they gave me a good Will gesture on the work. Having a new water pump, diagnostics and timing belt for £345. Not happy with the customer service though, cold, couldn’t be bothered and no empathy 

 

Tim, can I ask who came forward with the goodwill gesture? Was it the selling dealer or Skoda UK? 

[lowedb]

Having started this thread, I would have hoped not to be re-contributed to this thread, but here goes. Hopefully someone may have some facts that will help.

 

So we had the coolant changed under the service campaign. In spite of that the water pump failed, and was replaced under warranty. Dissapointingly, it failed again still in warranty, but was replaced again.

 

Now at the time, we made a point of asking the dealer what was to stop it simply going again. They told us that a modified part had been fitted. Now I know that there is a new part, with the G instead of D suffix, but in another thread it appears this was introduced in early 2019, whereas I know the second replacement on ours was sometime in 2018. Have the dealer been less than honest and actually fitted the old version? Or is it possible the G version doesn't actually fix the problem anyway?

 

The reason for asking this is, though we don't own the car, my SiL bought it from us, and shes has just had the same failure it seems: overheat, but after standing for a while everything is normal again. She called breakdown, who used whatever diagnostic they have (not Skoda) and found nothing. Her local dealer wants £157 just to look at the fault codes, but does anyone know if there are actually fault codes associated with this failure (other than a simple overheat). I do have VCDS myself but there's little point in either taking the 3 hour round trip to read it myself, or paying silly money at the dealer if there's no associated code stored anywhere. How do the dealers diagnose it, or do they just change it on sight?

 

 

 

Final question, those that got some goodwill from SUK. How did you go about it? Did you talk to the dealer and get them to approach SUK, or contact SUK customer services directly. It's all a bit annoying as we have been loyal customers for years. Our current Fabia has another issue (problems with the radio screen going blank) and my Kodiaq is behaving oddly with the rear assist switching itself off whne selecting topview camera.

[abaxas]

Do the usual if you want to get them to sort it.

Go in on a Sat when there are people in the dealership looking at new cars. Start shouting at the service dept with phrases such as 'you sold me a lemon and can't be arsed to fix it' or 'this warrenty isn't worth the paper it's written on' etc etc.

So far I've had 100% success with this, even with ford 😛

 

[lowedb]

An update. Took the car back to the dealer we bought it from (by prior arragement not just turning up), and had fitted the warranty pumps. They confirmed this pump had failed too.

 

They were very helpful, contacted SUK for us and got a goodwill gesture. Car was back with the latest G suffix pump the same day, and as we paid something towards it we are covered for 2 years. Shouting about a warranty that expired 9 months ago probably wouldn't have led to much goodwill from them TBH.

[Ootohere]

Sadly not all are getting treated so well.

They might have bought a used Fabia MK3 1.4 TDI that had had the Service Campaign / Recall Action carried out, then the car had a water pump fitted withoin the Manufacturers Warranty Period.  Then they are landed with the Expense of the replacement failing.

The expense can be too much for some.  Then add in some with DSG issues and a car can be an economic write off for them. Finance still being outstanding on a used car.

VW Finance even. 

 

Facst are there is a Fundamental Design or Manufacturing issue and Skoda / VW should not be washing their hands of it because a car is over 2 years or 3 years old.

That is when they are in the EU and under 6 years old.   There is no Gesture involved.  They co-cked up and need to be more honest.

In other world regions they might well be in court and get themselves ripped a new one.

http://skoda-auto.com/services/recall-actions

 

Edited 18 January, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[Kaimes]

Bypassing the Water Pump Solenoid

I hope the following may be helpful for anyone who has the overheating problem and has run out of options with Skoda.

It is quite simple to sidestep the water pump malfunction that causes overheating. Disconnect the electrical connector on the pump, and given a bit of luck, the pump will revert to proper cooling. The warm up time will be slightly longer, but there is still useful heat fairly quickly.

On my 65 plate Fabia this does not throw up any fault code, but you could contrive a dummy resistor if necessary. Looking at the front of the block, the water pump is quite high up on the left, but not directly visible. Removing the air filter box (four snap mounts) helps a bit with access.

Make sure ignition is off, then release the plug by pressing serrated latch while pulling gently. The black cable shroud can be unclipped, and if you have some experience of connectors, the two contacts can be released from the plug. You could connect a 47 ohm 5 watt resistor in place of the coil if necessary. Carefully insulate everything, since a short would likely damage the ECU.

My Experience

After 46 months from new at 18,000 miles, the water pump problem appeared, just after we started a holiday in France. From cold each day, the temperature continued past 90C, but by limiting the speed (to 30 to 40 mph) it was possible to keep below 110C. After a few miles, the temperature quickly fell back to 90C, and was normal for the rest of the day.

However, each day it took a bit longer to clear. The local VW group dealer was totally unhelpful, could do nothing for at least 2 weeks, nor suggest anything else. I had little option but to persevere, but after a couple more days, although the temperature mostly fell back to 90C, it increased going uphill, and this progressively got worse.

Exploring the internet, I realised the extent of the problem. Considerable digging revealed how the pump worked and failed. It seemed likely that disconnecting the control signal might prevent the rapid warm up mode, so the pump might return to normal operation.

This indeed proved to be the case, and the car was fine for the rest of our holiday, and has been since.

[lowedb]

Now that's interesting. I did wonder about this, but couldn't find any details about how it works. Can you confirm it's a two pin connector? When the fault occurs it seems there's a fault code stored, at least our dealer did a diagnostic and was able to be confident of there being a problem and that ought to require some feedback about the position of the sleeve. That said, I know that sometimes the diagnostics are done indirectly, for example the engine temp sensor says it's overheating but the thermostat hasn't  opened shows the pump problem is present. 

[Kaimes]

Yes, it is indeed a two pin connection to a solenoid in the water pump. This measured about 32 ohms cold, so about 45 ohms at 110C.  There was no continuity to ground and no internal diode.

 

Presumably the stored fault must have been for excess temperature, since the water pump solenoid would not ever have been discontinuous. If it is monitored at all, it could be only for continuity, as there does not appear to be any way the ECU can measure the sleeve position. Of course, if there is more than one water temperature sensor, it might be possible for the ECU to distinguish pump malfunction from thermostat failure.

 

Here hopefully is an image of the water pump from

https://www.skoda-dily.cz/nahradni-dil/04b121011d-vodni-cerpadlo-1-4tdi-skoda-24653.html

You can see the sleeve, solenoid and socket. I did not find any further info on the Fabia pump, but did find a description of a similar pump for another VW engine (afraid I can’t find this now). The impeller moulding also has an eccentric ring that operates a plunger pumping the coolant. This pressure is able to expand an annular actuator to push the sleeve over the impeller and so restrict the coolant circulation. I assume the output of the plunger pump is just dumped unless the solenoid is activated to stop this off. Then the pressure will push the sleeve over the impeller. There also will be a means to limit the pressure.

 

This configuration of actuator does look a bit liable to stick. The piston is short, it has a long periphery of seal relative to the area, and it relies on the spring force to retract the sleeve. Note that the coolant is water/glycerol, which needs an added lubricant to help the seal to slide.

[lowedb]

Excellent information and many thanks. This could end up being a workaround for many out of warranty owners. Essentially what you seem to have found is that if the connector is unplugged while the sleeve is retracted it can never deploy and therefore never stick. Is that a fair summary?

 

I can see VAG 2 pin sealed connectors fitted with 47R resistors becoming fashionable!

[Kaimes]

That is correct, disconnecting the plug when the sleeve is retracted makes it in effect an ordinary water pump. Further, since a stuck sleeve is no longer actuated on every cold start, there is a fair chance it may gradually retract due to the warm-up temperature cycling. Thus with an affected engine, it would be worth disconnecting the plug and carefully using the car, taking care to keep the indicated temperature below 110C. You might be lucky.

 

I did find a description of the similar pump, used on EA288 engines. You can access a pdf with the link below, and there are - none too clear - diagrams on pages 19 and 20.

 

http://pics3.tdiclub.com/data/517/820433_EA288.pdf

 

You can also find reports of similar failures due to the sleeve jamming!

[bris24]

Hi, The last few posts are very interesting and point towards a solution to this overheating problem. 

My daughter has a Mk3 fabia 1.4tdi which I am told by a Skoda dealer has had the coolant recall carried out.  I am not sure exactly what work was done but I plan to attempt to get this info from Skoda. 

Anyway my daughter's car is a 15 reg and had done about 40000 miles.  Occasionally, about once every one or two weeks the temperature gauge moves away from its steady 90degree C position and goes up to about 100degree C.  We have never noticed it higher than this and then after maybe 10 minutes or so it goes back to 90 and remains steady there.  So I think that there is a intermittent pump or thermostat problem?  This level of over heating is not a severe as others have reported but I think is cause for concern.  Does anyone else experience this type of overheating?

 

I have been doing some research on the pump issue and discovered that Gates can supply a replacement pump that does not have a sleeve, see image below and  Refer to https://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/best-practise-for-confirming-water-pump-integrity/

for details.

[Kaimes]

Hi bris24,

 

Firstly, your daughter's car displays similar symptoms as mine did, but whereas mine progressed over a few days to near enough complete failure, it looks like so far she has only partial sticking of the sleeve. I haven’t been able to examine one of these pumps, but would guess the problem is down to the rubber seal(s) in the actuator for the sleeve not sliding smoothly. The coolant will not be a particularly good lubricant, though the change of specification was presumably to try to improve things. So a difficult decision whether to replace ASAP, or take the risk of sudden expensive failure.

 

Thanks for the Gates information. Their choice of words does not make things particularly clear, but it looks to be an ordinary water pump with a place to park the now redundant solenoid, so that the pump appears to be the same as the original. It would certainly be a better bet as a replacement, assuming there is a version for the 1.4tdi.