Right guys and gals just a quick one.  Are all 2 litre diesel engines the same lumps of metal and pipes etc just configured by the computer management system or are each a different thing altogether?  I've got an SEL 190 ordered to replace my RS Octavia Estate to arrive next month.  The thing that I was wondering is are all engines just the same but controlled differently.  Son-in-law has recently fitted one of those plug-in tuning boxes that takes the power of his RS up from 184 to around 220 which made me think is a 150 just the same as a 190 but controlled differently?

 

Hope you can understand this.

 

Regards,

 

Moff.

Base engine are the same EA288 that's all I know.

The base engine will be the same but there will be differences in the hardware and software fitted to each engine. For instance in the Yeti the 110 and 140 hp engine are much the same with the only main difference being the software set up. In my 170 hp car the turbocharger is also different due to the higher flow and pressure demands, also the cooling package I believe.

Ian

Thanks for that, guys.  More curiosity than anything.

 

Regards,

 

John.

There is mechanical difference between the 150PS and 190PS 2.0 TDI engine.

 

1. The turbo is smaller on the 150PS, requires less RPM to spool (190 fully spools at about 1800RPM - dyno results) this also means the engine gets louder faster (at lower RPM). 

 

2. Injectors are larger on the 190PS along with the railing and a bigger fuel pump.

 

Some say that you can get almost 190PS out of 150PS with a remap and about 225PS out of 190PS. I am very sceptical about this because i haven't yet seen a before/after dyno of a plug-in remap, that increases 30HP. The most i have seen is 10-15HP in specialist garages that costs about 500euro to set up, which you don't notice and stresses the engine more than factory settings, aswell as nulifies the warranty. All of the plug-in remaps you can buy on amazon or ebay are more a placebo than actualy do anything.

 

If someone has done a remap and claims they have 20% more engine power, withouth using any mechanical tweeks (bigger fuel pump, fuel leads, air filter, cooler, injectors, etc.), i would realy want to see a before/after dyno test.

 

Some say that you can get almost 190PS out of 150PS with a remap and about 225PS out of 190PS. I am very sceptical about this because i haven't yet seen a before/after dyno of a plug-in remap, that increases 30HP. The most i have seen is 10-15HP in specialist garages that costs about 500euro to set up, which you don't notice and stresses the engine more than factory settings, aswell as nulifies the warranty. All of the plug-in remaps you can buy on amazon or ebay are more a placebo than actualy do anything.

 

If someone has done a remap and claims they have 20% more engine power, withouth using any mechanical tweeks (bigger fuel pump, fuel leads, air filter, cooler, injectors, etc.), i would realy want to see a before/after dyno test.

 

 

 

Here you go:

 

190 TDi Superb (same engine) which produced ‘just’ 171.6 BHP as std, remapped to 218.8 BHP, the injectors were holding it back from producing more power.

= 28.8 BHP increase over what it should have left the factory with, but in reality it actually meant a 47 BHP increase.

 

OWEN_SUPERB_CR190_STG1_220.pdf

TY for your post.

 

If you look at the correction factors, you will see that the remap has a correction factor 1, while stock has 0.995, if you count that in you get the stock values of about 182HP and 395Nm torque. This is due to the transmission. The Superb III has a DQ250 DSG with max 400Nm limit, while Kodiaq has a DQ500 with 600Nm limit. This is why in Superb, the CPU limits engine performance far more, because the engine specs and the clutch limits are the same. So the engine is the same 2.0TDI 190, while you will never get the max torque/power because of the CPU limitator to safeguard your clutch-pack.

 

One more thing bugs me, your transmission. The SuperbIII has a 6-speed wet clutch DQ250 automatic transmission, which has a torque limit of 400Nm.

 

"Bei 2.0L TDI Motoren mit DSG Getriebe fängt die Kupplung oft schon ab 450 Nm Drehmoment an zu rutschen. Daher muss das Drehmoment bei einer Leistungssteigerung in vielen Fällen begrenzt werden."

By 2.0 TDI engines with DSG transmission the clutch starts slipping at about 450Nm torque. For that reason, when tunning, you have to limit the torque output. This is why all DQ250 equiped cars have a torque limitator set at 400Nm.

 

"Ideal ist das verstärkte Kupplungs Kit für leistungsgesteigerte VW / Audi 2.0L TDI Motoren mit DSG DQ250 Getriebe."

To counter this, you need a enhanced clutch plate kit for all VW / Audi 2.0 TDI engines with DSG DQ250 transmissions.    You can get up to 700Nm of torque into transmission that way.

 

Source:https://www.bar-tek-tuning.de/2-0l-tdi-dsg-verstaerkt-kupplung

(couldn't find a VW spec sheet for DQ250)

 

Now here is the problem. There is only one possible answer:

a ) You did change the clutch-pack and the dyno results are valid.

b ) The remap included the removal of the torque limitator (which is set at 400Nm), which will increase your clutch-pack wear&tear and the dyno test is invalid due to the clutch slipping before hitting 500Nm.

c ) The remap didn't include the removal of the torque limitator and the test is false, because you can't possibly achieve 505Nm max torque, if the CPU limits the torque output at 400Nm.

 

Honestly, I don't know what you will do with all that power and torque on a 2WD car. Even at 250Nm starts, your front tyres lose grip and jump/skid requiring ESP intervention, with 400Nm travelling at 90km/h a gear-kickdown to 3rd will result in wheel slip and ESP intervention. So you turn off ESP and all you do with that extra power is wheel spin and lose grip.

If you haven't got these problems, than i doubt your car actualy has 500Nm torque and if it doesn't have the torque listed, it doesn't have the listed power either.

 

I believe that your tunning increased your engine performance from about 190HP to 205BHP and the torque from 400Nm to 430Nm (pure engine values not influenced by the clutch limitations) and that the garage didn't reset the torque limitator so it sits at 400Nm. This will leave the max torque at 400Nm while increasing the gradient of the torque/power curve, making it achieve it's 400Nm max torque at 100 RPM sooner.

 

Or do you have any other explanations, why the dyno test shows values in the range of clutch-slip? Maybe the 2.0 Superb has a different clutch-pack as stock than the standard DQ250 transmission? Why would they put a mph-RPM relation in the stats withouth mentioning the selected gear and why does the gear ratio change too after remap? Is this an indication of clutch slip on the dyno?

 

 

This is something that Ben @shark_90 would need to answer directly as he certainly knows how this stuff works. I did ask about torque limits for the DQ250 and like you have found out he confirmed VW have never confirmed (in writing) any limit for this box, but several were pushing over 500 Nm without issue.

 

What I will say however is the car drives TOTALLY different (for the better) now and has performed faultlessly over 25K... all but the odd rough gear change that even std cars are doing, which was cured with an 034 Motorsport aluminium insert for the dogbone.