Cam belt water pump & "Some other bit"

[Jonathan_1.8T]

Hi All,

 

I'm trying to find out what the "some other bit is", I'll explain & if anyone can help out that would be great.

 

Last year I had a chat with my local VAG specialist garage about the cost of a cam belt & water pump change,the job was last done 35k miles & 4 years prior.I had already been quoted £450 by Skoda.

The guy said their price would probably only be about £20 cheaper, he also asked the mileage of the car (it was on 101k at the time).When I told him, he said that as well as the cam belt & water pump,it may also need "some other bit" (which basically means I have forgotten what he said), but that he wouldn't know for certain if this bit was needed until the car was dismantled.It may need it, it may not, depending on what he finds.

The bit was apparently only small, but was £125-ish from Skoda.

 

That left me in the following situation....spend a minimum of £430, but possibly close to £600 (if the "unknown part" was required) on a car probably only worth that amount (Octavia Elegance 1.8t '52 reg); or, don't change anything, & carry on running it past the 4 year time-interval recommendation, but well within the 60k belt recommendation.I did the latter.

 

So I'm now  in a similar position a year down the line...the belt has been on 5 years & now 45k miles.(Last done by Skoda btw)

 

Common sense tells me that (feel free to disagree) in the UK, with our climate the belt's life span would be governed more by mileage than age, as we don't get particularly extreme variances in temperature.

(Thinking aloud)...If the 4 year recommendation covers, for example Russia & Poland & other places where they get high maximums & very low minimums, then surely in the UK it should be safe to stretch the 4 years a bit.

Is the recommendation even 4 years still, or has it been reduced/extended, there seems to be several opinions as to what exactly is gospel, but my understanding is 4 years/ 60k.

 

Thanks for any help/advice/opinions regarding what the mystery part is, or my logic re. stretching the belt interval on an older car not worth much.(& now on 111k,  but in good condition, no other issues).

 

[STSKODA]

it will be the tensioner

 

gates do a kit for around 100 with it - water pump is around £40 at most, you can get a better quote than that for a cambelt replacment...

[Jux]

Im guessing I would charge about £300 for the job. Change the tensioner while your in there. The heat variences will be engine related not envirmoental. A car that does motorway miles will do more miles on a belt than one that is constantly stop start, heat up cool down etc etc. Hence the time and mile intervals

[Jonathan_1.8T]

Thanks very much chaps, I just got a quote from an official Skoda service centre for £485 including belt, tensioner water pump coolant & VAT.Which is hopefully all it needs.

 

If anyone knows of a cheaper price in the Farnborough (Hampshire) area, I'd love to hear of it.

[Jonathan_1.8T]

After a couple of calls I have worked out what the mystery part is, it's the belt damper which may or may not  be required according to the guy at the VAG specialist, who I trust.But it does seem odd I've never seen any mention of this part in all the "cam belt" threads.Any opinions please?

 

If this belt damper is not needed, then this quote for comparisons sake would be approx £125 less than the total in the attached picture (£538.94), so very close to £412, saving me £73 over Skoda.

[Jigger72]

After owning both an Octavia 1.8T and Superb 1.9 TDI, and having had three cambelt changes on those cars, I've never heard of a belt damper?

[octyal]

It will be this bit - a decent timing kit will have it in the box anyway

 

[KenONeill]

Yeah, I'd have thought it would be the tensioner too.

 

And ref the quotation, who loses 3l of coolant changing a water pump!?

[octyal]

7 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Yeah, I'd have thought it would be the tensioner too.

 

And ref the quotation, who loses 3l of coolant changing a water pump!?

 

Yep, the hydraulic damper unit, allows the tensioner to move as the belt tension changes. Also has the idler pulley on it, so should really be changed at the same time as everything else.

 

Coolant loss is minimal when doing the pump/belt, although it is a good opportunity to drain the rad and flush the system with clean water while it is in bits.

 

I see from the quotation they are charging 3 hours labour as well, official time is only 2.2 hours (I did my own - 1st time - and it took nearly 5! Although that was allowing for tea breaks, and quite a while wrestling with the poxy engine mount and a partially rounded damper bolt too)

[Auric Goldfinger]

Skoda charge an extra £100 to supply and fit a Water Pump with a cambelt change.

 

Bit of a rip off, cost of water pump £45 and £55 to fit it, every thing is taken apart for the cam belt and then charge you just to remove and fit a new one.

 

 

Edited 13 June, 2017 by Auric Goldfinger

[Jonathan_1.8T]

I'm thinking this may be a way to save a few ££, gates stuff has never failed me before in other cars;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GATES-TIMING-CAM-BELT-WATER-PUMP-KIT-KP25491XS-FOR-SKODA-OCTAVIA-/112114244328?hash=item1a1a879ae8:g:9NkAAOSwFe5Xxana

[octyal]

Have a look on GSF's website, they have a midweek offer of 54% off when you use WED54 as a code

[petrolbloke]

Seems expensive.

 

ECP have an INA cambelt kit (with damper) for £108.54 using the current discount code and including VAT. That's half the price of your indy (what make parts do they use?).

 

Also, do you really need to change the water pump again?

[octyal]

2 hours ago, vrsTom said:

Seems expensive.

 

ECP have an INA cambelt kit (with damper) for £108.54 using the current discount code and including VAT. That's half the price of your indy (what make parts do they use?).

 

Also, do you really need to change the water pump again?

 

Swings and roundabouts that one. For the extra 10 minutes it takes to change the pump, for me, it's worthwhile and a safety related thing. It can raise problems in the unlikely event of a belt failure, as the manufacturer of the kit will always question if the pump was changed when it's driven by the cam belt. Remember it has been subject to the same loading and temperature variations as the tensioners/belt etc for the same amount of time, so is subject to wear and tear. INA/Gates/Dayco always recommend changing the pump at the same time.

[petrolbloke]

Of course, up to the OP what they do. Was just throwing it out there as an option as he knows the WP has been previously replaced by Skoda (5years/45k ago) and I think he'd be quite unlucky if it failed in the next few years/30k miles. IIRC the most common failure on them is the plastic impeller becoming loose on the spindle and therefore not circulating water - less likely to cause catastrophic engine damage than a seized bearing for example.

[octyal]

1 minute ago, vrsTom said:

Of course, up to the OP what they do. Was just throwing it out there as an option as he knows the WP has been previously replaced by Skoda (5years/45k ago) and I think he'd be quite unlucky if it failed in the next few years/30k miles. IIRC the most common failure on them is the plastic impeller becoming loose on the spindle and therefore not circulating water - less likely to cause catastrophic engine damage than a seized bearing for example.

 

Unless of course the broken part of the impeller gets trapped and seizes the pump up....

[STSKODA]

do it all while you are in there, including full coolant change and thermostat, if skipped you know it will go a year or so after

[Jonathan_1.8T]

14 hours ago, vrsTom said:

Seems expensive.

 

ECP have an INA cambelt kit (with damper) for £108.54 using the current discount code and including VAT. That's half the price of your indy (what make parts do they use?).

 

Also, do you really need to change the water pump again?

 

 

I seem to have found the Ina set,with damper, even cheaper,at £74.69;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INA-Timing-Belt-Kit-530006710-Fit-with-Audi-A4-/321867349623?hash=item4af0c9fe77:g:92YAAOSwuTxV-Yj-

Re. the water pump, I would definitely want that replaced while it's apart.If it wasn't & it failed, I'd be mad at myself.

 

 

3 hours ago, STSKODA said:

do it all while you are in there, including full coolant change and thermostat, if skipped you know it will go a year or so after

 

 

Very good advice imo, as it happens tho' thermostat was replaced exactly 2 years ago, so should be ok for a few years yet.

Edited 15 June, 2017 by Jonathan_1.8T

[octyal]

7 hours ago, Jonathan_1.8T said:

 

 

I seem to have found the Ina set,with damper, even cheaper,at £74.69;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INA-Timing-Belt-Kit-530006710-Fit-with-Audi-A4-/321867349623?hash=item4af0c9fe77:g:92YAAOSwuTxV-Yj-

Re. the water pump, I would definitely want that replaced while it's apart.If it wasn't & it failed, I'd be mad at myself.

 

 

 

 

Very good advice imo, as it happens tho' thermostat was replaced exactly 2 years ago, so should be ok for a few years yet.

 

You can get INA kits with a water pump in them too, part number is 530006730. Also have a look for the Ruville kit (same components as INA) - part number 55442711 - same kit I have fitted on mine, and was cheaper than the INA kit by a few quid.

[Jonathan_1.8T]

thanks for the WP Ina kit part no., I think I'll go genuine vag WP as will be £44 plus vat, your kit vs my linked one is £37 more, so not too much more ££ to go genuine vag on the WP.

 

One this is really puzzling me, dunno whether to start a new thread on it, as it may be helpful to others, but I'll mention it here;

 

On my last receipt for cam belt & WP at Skoda (5 years ago) , the part number for the belt kit is stated as "repair kit" 06A198119A (note the A at the end).

After checking on oempc part finder, and having phoned 4 very reputable & high volume ebay sellers including numberoneforskoda and deutscheparts, all of them (& oempc) say my car (aum 1.8t '52 reg) should have kit 06A198119B (note the B),& that the A version is not correct for my car.

I gather they are the same BUT for the tensioners, which differ between kits.But I'd imagine that could be big "but" if you fit the wrong one (assuming it will physically fit).

Quite what the score is here I don't know, maybe whoever did my invoice put the A kit on the paperwork, but the technician in practice used a B kit tensioner.

Anyone got any ideas?

Edited 15 June, 2017 by Jonathan_1.8T