Help - Skoda Yeti using too much oil

[Centipede]

Can anyone help me?

 

I have a Yeti 2011 1.8 4x4, which is using about 1 litre per 1,000 miles. It has done 77,000 miles.

 

It is out of both the maker's and the dealer's warranty.

 

I've replaced the inlet filter, and the breather system on top of the engine. This had no impact at all.

 

Today, I did a compression test:

 

Cylinder                 1          2          3          4

 

Dry                     155       157       150      160

 

Wet (5ml oil)        185       185       185      185

 

Looks to me as though it is the dreaded piston rings which are at fault (adding the oil seals these)

 

Does anyone know of a trusted repairer who could replace the rings, and whatever else is needed?

 

I've seen D L Jones, and GERMANCARTECH advertising, but don't know if these are trustworthy.

 

Has anyone experience of these? Contact me directly if you don't want to broadcast your feelings.

 

Martyn dot Long at yahoo dot co dot uk

 

Many thanks

 

Martyn

 

Edited 29 June, 2017 by Centipede
published too soon

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

You might find some help here.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/?page=57 

[Centipede]

Thanks Awayoffski - I have started to work my way through that huge topic.

 

However, I'm pretty sure it is the rings, and it's well out of warranty.

 

I can pay to get it mended, but what I'm looking for is someone who

 

A ) knows what they are doing

 

B ) won't rip me off..

 

 

[Ootohere]

What i was thinking was put your question on the end of that thread and the members that have been dealing with the 1.8TSI's with excessive oil use might assist you with your quest for someone with the gear and the ideas and that can do a good job for a fair price.

[Centipede]

Thanks, good idea.

 

I've posted on there.

[Guest FurryFriend]

I don't know that engine at all, and so can't help. But I did rebuild  engines for quite a number of years, and those compression results certainly wouldn't alarm me too much, especially the wet results which are good. 

Unless you're suffering from a lot of smoke, and a decline in overall psrformance,  (doubtful with those readings), I'd be looking at valve/seal and stem wear and leakage rather than wear. 77,000 on a modern engine isn't a lot. 

Check your engine from below. You wouldnt believe how many under engine trays we used to remove that were half full of oil from leaking sump pans and bearing seals. 

[weasley]

I agree.  Have you done a leak-down test?  Do you know what the specs are for the compression numbers?

[spottydog]

It's the 1.8 tsi and unfortunately it is almost certainly the piston ring fault.

 

Furryfriend these engines are well know for high oil consumption across the VAG range as they have an inherent design fault with the piston rings.

 

My 2010 Octavia suffered the same problem when I bought it from a Skoda dealer with 80,000 miles on the clock. It was using one litre of oil every 300 miles so a lot worse than yours. Skoda say 0.5 ltr of oil in 1000km (621 miles) is acceptable so yours is still within their tolerance. The thread in the Octavia 2 forum is long but worth reading.

Edited 1 July, 2017 by spottydog

[Centipede]

Many thanks for the various information and advice!

 

I've just checked under the car and there is absolutely no oil coming out anywhere underneath. 

It's got to be going through the engine in some way.

 

Unfortunately, I cannot do a leak-down test. It would certainly be a good idea, but I have to involve a garage and I think I need one who would be capable of doing the whole job.

 

As far as I can see, the good wet pressure cylinder compression readings (all 185) indicate that the top of the engine (i.e. valves and cylinder head gasket) are ok.

 

The much lower dry compression readings (about 155), indicate a 20% difference. There must be some loss of pressure past the rings - I have read elsewhere that a difference of 10% is 'normal'.

 

The absolute figures seem close to what other people have found, and the 185 figure also seems good in comparison with what others have mentioned. However, I don't really know what the figures 'should' be.

 

I have seen elsewhere on Briskoda (from a link to a detailed Russian post) that the problem lies with the bottom oil scraper ring. Apparently the holes in which allow the oil to go down (once 'scraped off') are too small and are easily blocked with carbon. The fix is apparently to use wider rings with bigger holes/slots, although this can involve fitting different pistons, which involves different con rods as well.

 

SO,

 

I love the Yeti, so will just spend some money on getting it fixed.

 

I am loath to pass it over to Skoda, and just want a decent independent garage somewhere in the East/South East.

 

I have been quoted £1,500 for an engine strip down and rebuild, including cylinder re-honing, new rings, con-rod and crankshaft checking, new main and big end bearings, cylinder head strip down and valves reconditioned (new guides and seats done), plus complete timing chain set.

 

I'm assuming this is with engine out of the car, but still this just seems a bit too cheap, and I am just sooo suspicious of people these days.

 

Has anyone else gone down this route, or have a favourite garage ?

 

[spottydog]

I'm sure the parts alone came to about that price, maybe a bit more, so that seems very cheap. Mine was done under warranty but they gave me a full breakdown invoice including costs. Unfortunately I don't have the paperwork anymore. Parts included, pistons, rings, con rods, valve seals, cam chain, tensioner and other bits and bobs. Labour was more than parts. The head had to be completely stripped and cleaned as it was carboned up.

 

Just to add the reason you need pistons, rings and con rods is because the new modified rings do not fit the existing pistons. The new pistons do not fit the existing con rods.

Edited 1 July, 2017 by spottydog

[Centipede]

Thanks spottydog - that seems like what I was thinking.

 

You just hear so many scare stories about people advertising rebuild jobs but just bodging in a second hand motor, or worse.

Caveat emptor and all that.

 

[Centipede]

Just to finish this thread off, I was quoted about £2.5 k by a couple of companies, for a rebuild, but I didn't get any sense that they had much idea of the specific problems with the yeti. One company just didn't reply to me....

 

Anyway, I bit the bullet and talked with the local Skoda garage - they can do a replacement (reconditioned) engine for £4,000.

Seems a lot, but I can (hopefully) trust them to know what they are doing, and I will then have a car which will then be capable of a lot more miles.

 

So, this is what I am going for.

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

That will be a 'Base Engine' from the VW refurnishing plant in Germany, so comes with a 2 Year Warranty on the engine.

[kenfowler3966]

You can buy a lot of oil for £2.5k.

Even at £10 a litre that would take you 250,000 more miles!

 

 

Time to look for another car and put the money towards that?

[Ootohere]

Unlike Fat Fryers you can not just keep feeding them oil & cleaning the filters.

[Nobbi1977]

When Vauxhall started with their small 16v motors many of them went through oil at about 1l per 1k, the advice then was to keep them topped up.

 

4 grand for a new engine in an old car seems like a false economy to me. What could you get for 4K plus the trade in price of yours? 

 

I would just keep up with the oil and try one of the compression restorer oil supplements. 

[Ootohere]

What kind of money pit are you liable to get if you spend £4,000 or even £6,000 buying one?

Sometimes better the devil you know & already own!

[Centipede]

It's a dilemma ! 

BUT, if I shell out £4000, I should at least have a car that will be reliable engine-wise, and good for a fair few miles.

 

I could trade it in and use the money to get a newer (second hand) yeti, but first I would feel very guilty, and second, the 'new' one would still have a few miles on it, with the risk of the same thing happening again.

 

I hate driving a car which I know has something wrong with it - it's interesting to do the sums on the cost of the oil; I hadn't realised that it was 'relatively' insignificant. However, that oil is going somewhere, and it's not supposed to be happening. There may be other things going on which I am not aware of ....

 

I used to have an old diesel which would only run properly on BP ultimate (made a huge difference). I reckon it cleaned the injectors. I am thinking of putting some of the petrol version through my yeti, though I can't see how it would penetrate to the oil ring. Worth a try though perhaps.

 

BTW, from now on, whenever I look at my car, I will think of a deep fat fryer !

 

[kenfowler3966]

But surely you would look to a different engine, knowing the weakness of the 1.8 petrol?

I could never see the attraction of that engine when it was available, the 170 diesel seemed a much better option on fuel economy alone.

 

Why feel guilty if you trade it in. At best the dealer will have to fix it under warranty giving the new owner an effectively new engine, at worst the dealer will spot the fault and decline to take it or value it accordingly and you can make an informed decision as to whether to proceed with that particular deal or not - And you would get a warranty of sorts on the replacement.

[weasley]

Are you sure about the diagnosis?  I would be surprised if all 4 cylinders went 'bad' at the same time, by the same amount.  Was the compression test done warm?  With the throttle wide open?  Have you ruled out a turbocharger oil leak?  Does the engine feel down on power?

 

I fear that all this talk of new engines may be based on a flawed assumption from limited data.

[Ootohere]

?

What oil are you using, 5w 30 Full Synthetic Long Life VW504 00 suitable for Fixed Servicing & Variable, maybe Castrol / Quantum?

 

Maybe get that Drained since you are using so much anyway, 

get some 5w 40 Full Synthetic VW502 00 suitable for Fixed Servicing and use that with a new oil filter and see how it goes.

(From ASDA / COMMA or others will do perfectly well, like 4-5 litres for £20 or so.)

Using Super Unleaded like Momentum 99 or even Sainsburys 97 ron would be a good move as well with a 1.8TSI

[Robjon]

4 hours ago, Centipede said:

...I could trade it in and use the money to get a newer (second hand) yeti, but first I would feel very guilty...

 

...I hate driving a car which I know has something wrong with it...

 

On ‎01‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 10:49, spottydog said:

...Skoda say 0.5 ltr of oil in 1000km (621 miles) is acceptable so yours is still within their tolerance...

 

No reason to feel guilty, mate.

 

Perfectly acceptable according to Skoda.

 

Edit: Apologies - I'm wrong.  See next two posts.

 

Edited 6 July, 2017 by Robjon

[Ootohere]

spottydog,

VW Group says 'May use 0.5 litres 1,000km', so that would be 1 litre in 2,000 km. (1,242 miles.)

 

So 1 litre used in 1,000 miles as in the OP is not within tolerances obviously.

It exceeding the oil use that VW Group use as a coverall.

 

Not that even the VW Group expect to get away with what they say for every engine from 44kw up, 3,4,5,6,8 or 12 cylinder petrols and diesels.

They have been rebuilding and replacing Euro 5 engines since 2009 that used 0.3 litres in 1,000 miles, 

when pushed, because they are not going into any court in the EU arguing that 0.5 litres in 1,000km is acceptable in normal driving.

Edited 6 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[rayx]

Just a comment, Spottydog is correct in quoting VAG, but wrong interpretation, same as Robjon

Edited 6 July, 2017 by rayx

[Centipede]

A lot of interesting points.

 

Firstly, I really like the 1.8 4x4 for various reasons - it gets a 'best' rating by honest john. It really does feel great to drive and is useful for me (I tow a boat, sometimes in slippy situations)

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/skoda/skoda-yeti-18tsi-160-2009-road-test//

 

I always used to drive diesels, but recently had loads of problems with reliability - dpf, egr, etc. Apparently particulate filters are now one of the main reasons for breakdown callouts. The yeti may be different of course, but I just got a bit fed up with the whole added complication.

 

I find the whole oil useage thing soooo dodgy. I am personally well out of warranty, but it just looks as though they made a mistake in using thin oil rings with tiny holes, which are easily blocked. I remember in the old days, the holes in the bottom rings were always huge slots.

 

The engine has good power, and I tested the compression with an engineering friend of mine. The engine was warmed up, but I didn't put the throttle down - would this make a difference in the gap between wet and dry? I was also thinking that the wet/dry difference ruled out all other things such as a possible turbo leak. I'll ask the garage if they can test for this (can't immediately see how) - suppose I'm going by the general feeling that the rings are usually the problem.

 

The oil I am using is 5w30 Castrol Edge. I was really tempted to try a more viscous oil, but some people warn about this - something to do with the valves 'pumping up', as well as the turbo flow. Ultimately, I'm assuming that Skoda got most of the other aspects right, and that they specify this oil for a reason.

I will definitely talk with the Skoda garage about using 5w40 - if that is one of the recommended ones.

 

I've just filled up with some BP advanced, and will have a blast down the motorway tomorrow. Then I'll do an oil change with some 5w40, then see what happens.

 

Thanks for all the ideas and advice.

 

Edited 6 July, 2017 by Centipede
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