I've received a letter from Skoda inviting me to book my car in for the 'EA 189 NOx' emissions service. After watching Channel 4 news last night I'm not keen on accepting this 'offer'

It appears a lot of people have had various issues with their cars after this work? My question is, do I have to have this work carried out?

Apparently the work does nothing to 'solve' the diesel fumes issue!

The "fix" is NOT compulsory. It is true that many have had EGR/DPF regen problems after the software update. My trusted local independent VAG specialist advised me NOT to have it done. As far as I'm concerned my car ain't "broke" so why fix it?

 

Just my opinion for what it's worth.

 

Drefaldwyn

Thanks drefaldwyn after reading other reports I've decided to 'ignore' it. 

Pro's - a cleaner conscience.

 

Con's - a potentially unreliable car.

You don't have to have the 'fix' applied, but it does reduce the on-the-road NOx output, as demonstrated by independent testing.

I was unaware of any issues with the "fix", so had it applied at the 2nd variable service on Wednesday. Today the "Exhaust inspection system" light has come on.

Coincidence? I doubt it!

 

A real pain in the a**e too as I drive an 80 mile round trip to work everyday and the garage is no-where near where I work :(

I don't even know if it's safe to drive before I get it checked over....

 

Really wish I'd researched before having this done. Car has been perfect since day 1 until now.

 

Nick

LOL@ Independent Testing showing that 'The Fix' reduces on the road NoX Output.  Only way it has been shown to is a broken down car is a car not being driven on the road.

 

Wino or someone might post the Independent Test Results that have been done on vehicles since the tests that allowed the German Authority to approve The Fix on 2.0, 1.2 & 1.6 TDI's.

That will be vehicles at revenue weight being driven with before The Fix and after the fix NoX emission readings.

Edited 1 July, 20179 yr by Awayoffski

I already linked it on your behalf in another thread. Testing done before/after fix by Autocar.

Many, many people don't understand what a 'defeat device' is and what its removal will mean.

It has nothing to do with how the car behaved in test conditions and everything to with on the road emissions. 

I've explained it often. Do an advanced search for the word 'defeat' and author me. Most of the results attempt to explain it in a variety of different ways.

 

 

 

Edited 1 July, 20179 yr by Wino

Link it here then or the thread it is in please.

 

Easy to understand the Defeat Device if you put your mind to it and search engines, but lets get back to real world, 

lets see the results pre and post if Regens are more frequent.

Lets see the 1.6 TDI CR results.

The link I gave before (in here) doesn't yield the full article any more, but I'm fairly confident it said that NOx output was approximately halved.

Defeat devices are exactly what affect 'the real world'. Once you've grasped the concept, you'll see why.

1 hour ago, nick1977 said:

I was unaware of any issues with the "fix", so had it applied at the 2nd variable service on Wednesday. Today the "Exhaust inspection system" light has come on.

Coincidence? I doubt it!

 

A real pain in the a**e too as I drive an 80 mile round trip to work everyday and the garage is no-where near where I work :(

I don't even know if it's safe to drive before I get it checked over....

 

Really wish I'd researched before having this done. Car has been perfect since day 1 until now.

 

Nick

So this.

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/autocar-test-shows-worse-economy-after-volkswagen-diesel-fix 

Wonderful if you use more fuel and emit less emissions in certain conditions, it is like VW's use less fuel burn more oil and have an engines longevity reduced.

Like ECO tyres, better economy, less grip, shorter life, replace tyres more often, so very green.

1 hour ago, nick1977 said:

I was unaware of any issues with the "fix", so had it applied at the 2nd variable service on Wednesday. Today the "Exhaust inspection system" light has come on.

Coincidence? I doubt it!

 

A real pain in the a**e too as I drive an 80 mile round trip to work everyday and the garage is no-where near where I work :(

I don't even know if it's safe to drive before I get it checked over....

 

Really wish I'd researched before having this done. Car has been perfect since day 1 until now.

 

Nick

(Ignore the last post - something went arse over tit when I was typing it)

Faults with DPFs and EGRs don't appear out of nowhere - they develop over months. Your problem is highly unlikely to be due to the software update. At most, it might have accelerated its appearance by a few days. It might feel nice to blame the update but it's not to blame here.

 @Awayoffski: So have you now grasped why defeat device removal must reduce on the road NOx emissions, the subject at hand?

 

 

chimaera,

Well that is the Educated Engineering Theory, the known cause and effect factor, all failing will just be based on anecdotal evidence from mumpties with no degrees or formal educations in Motor Engineering etc,

The one pity that it is VW Group, was headed by Dr Martin Winterkorn the Engineers Engineer and the VW Group had Bosch create Defeat Devices in 11 million vehicles ECU's and VW Group engineers came up with 'The Fix'.

 

If there are no Premature Failures within days of The Fix being carries out VW Group and the UK DVSA and Europen Authorities will be showing that it is all purely coincidence.

Wino, i understand why the defeat device removal could get the test results to be what they are under test conditions now but they could not be when the test were originally done because the failure rate of vehicles would have been within the Manufacturers Warranty and the parts failure would have very quickly been evident.

11 minutes ago, chimaera said:

It might feel nice to blame the update but it's not to blame here.

 

I'm not so sure, there are electrical systems associated with both the EGR and DPF. I'm not sure why these two components are cited here as being at fault, all we have is an EML which is used to signal many different potential faults.

 

The emissions fix on the 2.0 involves a new map, to have an EML the very next day smacks of much more than coincidence to me, especially given the increasing number of complaints cropping up online.

13 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

Wino, i understand why the defeat device removal could get the test results to be what they are under test conditions now but they could not be when the test were originally done because the failure rate of vehicles would have been within the Manufacturers Warranty and the parts failure would have very quickly been evident.

You still haven't got it then. The defeat device was the software that changed the car *outside* of conditions where it knew it was being tested, relaxing its emissions reductions measures.

 

There are BRISKODA members like in the Yeti section that are posting their experiences and that have had cars misbehaving after The Fix and dealerships taking the car in and rectifying the issues.

All so weird those that defend 'The Fix' & VW Groups denials were the actual experiences of private owners that are driving their cars before and after seems to be dismissed, but the Vehicles that were first in for The Fix were Lease Vehicles and VW Group Vehicles that were Fixed while in the keep of Dealerships or VW Companies and the only people driving might be new keepers and not those that had been driving them from 2008-2016 or in a period up to 2015/16.

Wino,

removal of the defeat device is not the only change that has been carried out on the 100 plus various 3 engines that fall under the 1.2, 1.6 & 2.0 Euro 5 TDIs.

The changes required in the  attempt to keep the MPG, Torque etc as pre The Fix is being shown as to not be as the VW Group were making assurances about.

 

The thing is that it is not taking that long for the reason to be clear why the Defeat Device and Engine Mapping as was was developed and introduced.

 

35 minutes ago, chimaera said:

(Ignore the last post - something went arse over tit when I was typing it)

Faults with DPFs and EGRs don't appear out of nowhere - they develop over months. Your problem is highly unlikely to be due to the software update. At most, it might have accelerated its appearance by a few days. It might feel nice to blame the update but it's not to blame here.

Thanks for the reply. It doesn't feel "nice" to blame anything.

I just think it is too much of a coincidence to ignore the likelihood.

38,000 miles done, without a single issue, then a day after a remap to address emissions issues, there is a fault reported in an area directly related to emissions....!

 

I'll get it into the garage and see what they say. It's still well within warranty, so regardless of the cause I'm assuming they should sort it out without me incurring any cost.

@Awayoffski:Of course. It's a massive re-write of large parts of the controlling software, something else I've been trying to explain for a long while. Compromises were inevitable.

 

Edited 1 July, 20179 yr by Wino

I posted in the Yeti the same question in different words,

please post the test results showing any environmental improvement with the defeat device removal, 

so lower NoX, Co2 g/km and the same fuel consumption or lower meaning that under road use there are real world environmental improvements and not just 

increased share prices for the Vw Group?

Less fuel used while vehicles emit less emissions and owners are not forking out more hard earned keeping the car on the road.

 

When VW Group are in European Courts defending Engineering solutions we might see VW Group Data on Pre & Post Fix and the Test result that those taking them to court have from testing carried out, maybe individuals / Class actions & maybe governments.

http://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2017/06/30/vw-fix-volkswagen-no-significant-difference-real-world 

Edited 1 July, 20179 yr by Awayoffski

20 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

I posted in the Yeti the same question in different words,

please post the test results showing any environmental improvement with the defeat device removal, 

so lower NoX, Co2 g/km and the same fuel consumption or lower meaning that under road use there are real world environmental improvements and not just 

increased share prices for the Vw Group?

Less fuel used while vehicles emit less emissions and owners are not forking out more hard earned keeping the car on the road.

 

When VW Group are in European Courts defending Engineering solutions we might see VW Group Data on Pre & Post Fix and the Test result that those taking them to court have from testing carried out, maybe individuals / Class actions & maybe governments.

http://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2017/06/30/vw-fix-volkswagen-no-significant-difference-real-world 

I've posted the ADAC/OAMTC/TRS/VUT results on several threads by now. It's on you if you continue to choose to ignore them. They show improvement in real-world NOx emissions as a result of the update.

^^^ 
& i have studied them,

so why not post them again for those that have not seen them, then maybe post the testing being done now after a period of time and give the failure rate in the vehicles that were used in the original testing.