Recently I bought a new 2017 Citigo SE L 75PS GreenTech. 

I find the 1st Gear quite Tall so, to prevent Judder when starting off I have to slip clutch a bit.

Surely, this will have a negative effect on clutch life?

Also, on occasion, I can feel the Thrust Bearing (as if the Bearing is dry), through the Clutch Pedal when changing Gear. This particularly happens at High Revs.

Has anyone else experienced this?

 

P.S. I haven't (as yet) experienced the dreaded Clutch Pedal 'Click' that many owners complain about.

The engine is a 3-pot with no balancer shafts and IMHO generally juddery at low speeds.

 

Mine has a weird hissing noise (like a boost pressure dump valve) when taking up drive between gear changes and there is some bearing noise when idling in neutral.

As a retired Aerospace Engineer, what you tell me sounds rather risky Automotive Engineering to me.

I do hope VW Engine Boffins know what their doing & the Engine/Power Train Life & Reliability aren't compromised in any way.

 

Yes, I read that it's a 3 Cylinder Engine & am aware that they are becoming ever more popular with Motor Manufactures.

I opted for the 75PS version with a little bit more 'Top End' although, I have noted that it could do with more Torque.

My past experience with 4 valves per cylinder engines has taught me that they all disappoint regarding Torque.

 

Lack of torque has little to do with multivalve designs nowadays. Computerised ignition means that reasonably high compression ratios can be used and variable camshaft timing helps to maintain torque at lower engine speeds.

 

There are plenty of torquey multivalve engines on the market today. What the Citigo lacks that most modern engines have is a turbocharger. The same 3-pot 12 valve engine produces 115PS and twice the torque of the Citigo in turbocharged form.

 

As for the gearbox, that has been engineered for low cost and lightness and inevitably some compromises have had to be made.

Edited 15 July, 20178 yr by ronime

I can see your a enthusiast of Turbo Charged Cars, (as I am) & in my opinion Manufacturers should include it as an option on all their Small Engined Cars.

However, in this case I think you've 'Over Egged' the benifits a little.

According to the Motoring Press, the VW Up Turbo produces:

Another 15 bhp (89 instead of 74) & 118 ft lbs instead of 70 ft lbs of Torque.

However, I can't deny, these are benifits worth having.

 

Regarding your reply to the Gearbox issues, I have no objection to Cost Reduction & removing Weight, as long as it doesn't compromise the pleasure of Driving the vehicle or (more importantly) reduce its Reliability or it's Serviceable Life.

They have been building and selling the Up!MiiCitigo for 6 years now so judging the longevity and following the snagging issues and fundamental design and manufacturing and component failings and any upgrades, enhancements or updates and facelifts is easy, just go to the introduction of this section in Briskoda and the threads are there to read, pages and pages of peoples experiences and likes and dislikes.

Not as though it is a new model anymore, the first cars sold are now 3 years out of the manufacturers warranty.

Yes, that is correct.

And People's Expectations & Tolerances differ widely.

TBH, motor cars have been built for so long now, (120yrs), the technology should be 'well sorted' by now.

I don't believe there are any 'Bad' cars built any more, the Trade is that competitive that Car Manufactures would quickly go out of business if their products were consistatly unreliable.

Unlike the 40's/50's & 1960's when they could sell ANY junk to an eager public.

My 1st car was a 5 year old Mini, I had to replace the Sub Frame (on the Drive of my parents house), it ALWAYS leaked Water & I used to repair the Sills with 'Pop Rivetted' Baked Bean cans.

☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️

2 hours ago, Ronn said:

However, in this case I think you've 'Over Egged' the benifits a little.

According to the Motoring Press, the VW Up Turbo produces:

Another 15 bhp (89 instead of 74) & 118 ft lbs instead of 70 ft lbs of Torque.

 

Regarding your reply to the Gearbox issues, I have no objection to Cost Reduction & removing Weight, as long as it doesn't compromise the pleasure of Driving the vehicle or (more importantly) reduce its Reliability or it's Serviceable Life.

 

In the same manner that Ford produce the 1.0 EcoBoost engine with a variety of power outputs (100 PS, 125 PS, 140 PS) as do VAG with their 1.0 TSI engine.

 

90 PS in the Up!

95 PS and 110 PS in the Polo

85 PS and 110 PS in the new Golf

95 PS and 115 PS in new Ibiza

 

147 ftlb (200 NM) torque in the case of the 110 PS and 115 PS variants

 

As for the "perfect" gearbox:

 

1. Performance

2. Low cost

3. Reliability

 

As is the usual case with mass-market production engineering, it would seem that you can have any of two of the three qualities above.

 

Edited 16 July, 20178 yr by ronime

2 hours ago, Ronn said:

I don't believe there are any 'Bad' cars built any more, the Trade is that competitive that Car Manufactures would quickly go out of business if their products were consistatly unreliable.

 

I totally agree. I suspect that this may be down to some of the few EU laws imposed on us that I actually agree with, regarding minimum standards for passenger vehicles. The problem is perhaps that there is an increasing number of very good ones that make some of the lesser ones appear mediocre to some people.

 

Despite all of my speculation concerning grumbly, flaky gearboxes in the Citigo, it is actually quite a safe and sturdy car. NCAP 5 star rating, I believe, and panel beaters hate them because it is rally hard to pull dents out of the core shell. Combine this with a very modest torque output and it is a car that I feel very happy about letting my kids loose in as new drivers. My Citigo effectively replaced a 1992 Mazda MX-5 that was not insurable for new drivers but had no safety aids other than a pair of inertia reel seatbelts (and no roof to afford a modicum of head protection).

 

Contrast this with low-cost "starter" cars produced in India for their own home market - no airbags and horrific deformation in crash tests.

Edited 16 July, 20178 yr by ronime

Hi ronime,

Regarding your analysis of Gearbox 'options' (performance, low cost, etc).

I assume your 2 out of 3 conclusion is 'Tongue in Cheek' & not the Manufactures Rule Book.

Gearbox Performance & Reliability are mandatory from a customer view point, Low Cost? Well that's something that the Manufacturer has to juggle with by looking at his Market & Customer Base (in other words, what the 'end user' is prepared to pay).

 

Regarding the output of the 'turbo 3 pot VAG', I was only talking Citigo here & what's sensible to stick in it as a power source.

In other words, the 1 Ltr 3 pot engine.

 

Although, I enjoyed reading your comments & observations.

Hi ronime (again), 

Yes, totally agree with you on every point raised.

The Citigo is my Wife's Car which (after much reading of the Motoring Press, we bought a couple of months age to replace her 13 plate Fiat 500.

I was never fully convinced with Fiat 500, I didn't think it was particularly well 'Screwed Together' although it was Fun to Drive & the Gearbox was Silky Smooth, (better so far, than my experience with the Citigo Gearbox, - perhaps it will improve when worn in).

I drove the Fiat as much as she did although I have an Audi TT sitting on the Drive & a MK2 Mazda MX5 in the Garage (purely for summer use).

I had a VW Lupo 1.7 litre SE SDI from new in 2003, in a rather fetching Fresco green.

The car did 110k miles in 4 years, where the transmission proved to be smooth, quiet and utterly reliable.  I didn't ever adjust the clutch or even check the trans. oil level.

Torque output was 115 lb.ft between 2-3k r/min.

Perhaps the gearbox was too large/heavy/expensive for the Citigo (?).

VAG did have a transmission that was quiet and it's a shame that performance characteristic didn't carry through to the Citigo/Up/Mii.

Incidentally the Lupo motor averaged 67 mpg to the Citigo's 60.

 

Cheers...Snaefell (Marown, IoM).

Yes, VW have made a number of small cars that look very similar to each other!

Lupo was same as Seat Arosa (I think).

They also made The Fox, again similar in appearance to Lupo & Up.

 

Think Up may be a bit bigger.

 

VW Group haven't followed the other manufactures of small cars with the silly light clusters & car side ridges that slope upwards.

Styling features that are created to attract the young driver.

VW have stuck to the 'Classic' Look.

Many (particularly 17 year olds) would call it the OLD FASHIONED LOOK.

2 hours ago, Snaefell said:

I had a VW Lupo 1.7 litre SE SDI from new in 2003, in a rather fetching Fresco green.

The car did 110k miles in 4 years, where the transmission proved to be smooth, quiet and utterly reliable.  I didn't ever adjust the clutch or even check the trans. oil level.

Torque output was 115 Nm between 2-3k r/min.

Perhaps the gearbox was too large/heavy/expensive for the Citigo (?).

VAG did have a transmission that was quiet and it's a shame that performance characteristic didn't carry through to the Citigo/Up/Mii.

Incidentally the Lupo motor averaged 67 mpg to the Citigo's 60.

 

Cheers...Snaefell (Marown, IoM).

 

The VW Group the biggest manufacturer of vehicles in the world for the 2nd time after losing that by cheating with 11 million vehicles make some terrible gearboxes.

No matter how many decades have passed they still have trouble with Chains, Chain Tensioners, Belts, Rubber door seals etc.

High oil users and high polluters.

 

So 'Vorsprung Durch Technik', means when found out introduce 'new' or supposedly new tech that others researched and introduced before you and just drop 

the last engines and expect people to have short memories.

 

Just as well they sometimes build some crackers because they do build some lemons.

Drop the 1.2 for the 1.0 tsi, drop the 1.4tsi / tfsi's for 1.5tsi's etc etc

As to the ASG Automated Manual, they must have been smoking something the day that was signed off.

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues 

4 hours ago, Snaefell said:

I had a VW Lupo 1.7 litre SE SDI from new in 2003, in a rather fetching Fresco green.

The car did 110k miles in 4 years, where the transmission proved to be smooth, quiet and utterly reliable.  I didn't ever adjust the clutch or even check the trans. oil level.

Torque output was 115 lb.ft between 2-3k r/min.

Perhaps the gearbox was too large/heavy/expensive for the Citigo (?).

 

Yep, I suspect that this was a beefier transmission designed and built to cope with the diesel lump's higher torque output.

 

The Polo 6N 1.0MPi models were imbued with a lightweight gearbox that often failed as a result of the final drive grenading. Thank goodness the Citigo didn't inherit that gem.

4 hours ago, Ronn said:

Yes, VW have made a number of small cars that look very similar to each other!

Lupo was same as Seat Arosa (I think).

They also made The Fox, again similar in appearance to Lupo & Up.

 

The Citigo reminds me of the Fox in many respects. Obviously built down to a price (in Brazil, primarily for an emerging Brazilian car market in the case of the Fox). Not overly endowed with equipment and cheaper materials used but those materials were used very effectively. More room inside than the exterior might suggest and gave the impression of a very sturdy little car.

 

My only real experience with the Fox was as a courtesy car for a few days some years ago whilst our Golf Mk5 was in for body repairs. It left a good impression on me and I very nearly bought one until I was pleasantly surprised to learn that with my daughter as a named driver a MINI Cooper R50 was cheaper to insure than a Fox or Polo 1.4.

Edited 16 July, 20178 yr by ronime

So many Foxes and so little time.

Which countries Fox are we talking about?  I see a fair few around in Scotland and always looking well cared for which surprises me a little.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Fox 

3 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

Which countries Fox are we talking about?  I see a fair few around in Scotland and always looking well cared for which surprises me a little.

 

Built in Brazil but exported to Europe and the UK. I'm fairly certain that the Fox effectively replaced the Lupo/Arosa and of course was effectively replaced itself by the Up!/Mii/Citigo.

Quite a number of them on Autotrader for Much Cheapness, including a 2008 with 1,600 miles on it.

All cars for the 'common man' are built down to a price, from ALL the Manufacturers.

We bought the Citigo for my Wife because Auto Express had made it City Car of the Year 5 years running.

In fact ALL the Motoring Press regard it very highly.

Quite an Accolade seeing as how many Manufacturers make competing products.

Ford Ka, Vauxhall Adam, Fiat 500, etc:

it even beats its stable mates, the VW Up & Seat Mii.

So, VW with the Skoda Citigo must be doing something right!

They do, they spend millions advertising in the motoring press, especially Auto Express their greatest fan boy, and with Autocar part of Haymarket Media Group owned by Sir Michael Heseltine and one of the many publications that Haymarket Media have like What Car and Pistonheads.

(Haymarket Media Group have a big customer in the VW Group who they work for with launches and publicity, promotions.)

 

Skoda's can be What Car of the year before any are even on sale to customers, and What Car used car of the year regardless of faults, or one version of a model might be.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.

Citigo's are Skoda UK poorest selling model and that is saying something considering that Skoda is not a volume seller in the UK with all Skoda First Registered in a year in the UK being only 1/2 what Ford first register Fiestas.

 

So pay more on advertising and lawyers, service campaigns / recalls and fines than you do on R&D, and save on R&D by having paying customers do it.

If there are snagging faults do not address them deny them.

Edited 17 July, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

You appear to be better informed than me on these matters.

I also saw it reviewed on TV (Top Gear or 5th Gear) & they also gave it a good report (it was the VW Up they reviewed).

I sincerely hope Heseltine hasn't got his grubby fingers in there also (but, you never know).

Tell me, do you own a Citigo (or it's sisters, Up or Mii?) & have you had bad experiences with it?

Or, have you just got a 'downer' on VW or the Citigo?

 

All cars have their critics, Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc: being NO exception.

 

Never owned an Up!MiiCitigo but tried to, i need an automatic because i have only one leg and have driven every type since the 1970's to try or owned ones,

CVT, Servo Clutch, Automatics & Automated Manuals.

Getting an ASG to roadtest when the cars were released was hopeless but eventually i did get to drive one, all the cars coming in were for customers and no demonstrators were available, that became obvious as to why because if people had tried before they bought they might not have and they would have known that Journalist /  Roadtesters are full of crap more often than not.. Or 3 monkeys like VW Group.

 

Just pathetic Automated Manual single clutch gearboxes but the Citigo is a hoot to drive. Tried a few since when i have had the chance and the ASG is still as dismal IMO.

So if the Up!MiiCitigo was available with a DSG or just a 4 speed Auto i would be right on the waiting list.

(so instead of a Citigo for a small town car i had a 1.1 16v Kia Picanto Auto (4 speed) which drove about the nearest thing to an Original Mini, had discs all round, leather steering wheel, electric windows, then i had as well the biggest hoot small car a Toyota iQ 1.0 CVT)

 

If Skoda did a small capacity sporty car as per their Heritage / Motorsport success of old heritage then it should be a 113ps Citigo possibly with a 1.0tsi, 

since recent Motorsport success has been via the use of a Fabia bodied R5 while Skoda can only turn out cars to the public in showrooms with 110ps and now 

with what ever they get from the 1.0tsi in the Fabias.

Edited 17 July, 20178 yr by Awayoffski