My new sportline 190 tdi has a spare wheel. Now ive not had a spare in 15 odd years of motoring. So when I found out , I thought spacesaver.

 

No , I was wrong its a full size spare. Well .. not fully full size , its a 16 inch wheel.

 

So , how does that work with 19's all round. If fitted would the car not be lop sided.

 

Sorry if this is a silly question , its just I don't know.

Not a silly question if you don't know.

The short and simple answer is that it won't be lopsided.

 

The longer answer, to explain, is that the sidewall of a tyre is shown as a percentage of the tyre's width.

215/60 R16 means the sidewall is 60% of the 215mm width of the tyre, which is 129mm. Add the 203mm (8") radius of the 16" wheel and you get a total radius of 332mm.

235/40 R19 means it has a sidewall of 94mm. Add the 241mm (9½") radius of the wheel and you get a total radius of 335 mm.

The calculated 3mm difference is less than 1%, but in the real world your spare will have fresh unworn tread whilst the opposite tyre will have worn so the actual difference will be even less.

 

As the dimension and design of the spare wheel will differ from the wheel on the same axle it should be treated purely as an emergency spare wheel - so when in use restrict your speed to 50 mph, avoid harsh acceleration/braking, replace with the correct size wheel & tyre asap.

if its restricted to 50 and an emergency wheel , why not do a spacesaver. or give me a full 19 inch wheel. Seems strange. It like ill give you a good wheel , just not a full wheel and not a space saver.

 

Not complaining , didn't cost me anything as dealer ordered in mistake.

 

Thanks for your concise answer , like math type answers

The width of the 19 won't fit the depth of the well.

Have you tried driving with a rock hard space saver? Not a pleasant experience!

You seem to know yer stuff. What quick , cheap mod could I add to my 190 tdi , to boost the power a bit. I see your 280 is now supersonic.

 

I imagine a re-map. Are those expensive, what about insurance?

I'm not sure that you would be limited to 50mph. On the space savers it is emblazoned on the wheel in bright yellow labels and I'm not surprised given the puny width of the tyre.

Although the full sized spare will be slightly less wide than the standard tyre it will definitely have more grip than a space saver.

Edited 3 September, 20178 yr by facet edge

Retired after 23 years on traffic and a former collision investigator so I had to know all that crap! Also a former but brief resident of Kings Park many many moons ago!

 

I have the original RaceChip Ultimate tuning box which is not a remap. The tuning box does not invalidate engine warranty, a remap does. DTUK also supply tuning boxes.

Tuning boxes are treated the same as a remap by UK insurance providers.

I was with Churchill but they wouldn't cover a tuning box nor remap so I switched to LV and paid less.

 

You shouldn't consider fitting one until the engine is bedded in but, from what I gather from your other thread, that's not a concern for you. 100 miles on the clock and flooring it in Sport? Not recommended for the engine's healthy future. 

Your complaint of the acceleration lag in the same thread is a common complaint and can be resolved with a throttle tuning box which does not affect insurance. There are several threads on this subject. They are also available from RaceChip and DTUK.

4 minutes ago, facet edge said:

I'm not sure that you would be limited to 50mph. On the space savers it is emblazoned on the wheel in bright yellow labels and I'm not surprised given the puny width of the tyre.

Reg.27 MV (C&U) Regs 1986 covers use of the space saver...

(3) Paragraph (1)(a) does not prohibit the use on a road of a passenger vehicle (not being a bus) by reason only of the fact that a wheel of the vehicle is fitted with a temporary use spare tyre, unless the vehicle is driven at a speed exceeding 50 mph.

Paragraph (1)(a) refers to tyres being put to an undefined "suitable use" or being of different construction to the other tyres, so doesn't necessarilly apply if all tyres are of the same relational size and construction.

 

Different size wheels/tyres on the same axle will adversely affect the handling which is why it's intended as an emergency get you home / place of repair and a 50 mph limit is a safety recommendation and, unlike the space saver, not a legal requirement.

It would also be an MOT failure if it were presented in situ.

Love this forum. Oh , Billy/ Alex . On the bedding in aspect. I asked the dealer that. The dealer said that is a thing of the past with these engines. No need to run in for 500-1000. Anyway , not planning on taking to the extreme in the first 1000 miles.

 

Keep keeping me right!

A remap will take the 190 to 220 and 500Nm!

 

By then you will wish you had 4x4

3 hours ago, BillyJim said:

Reg.27 MV (C&U) Regs 1986 covers use of the space saver...

(3) Paragraph (1)(a) does not prohibit the use on a road of a passenger vehicle (not being a bus) by reason only of the fact that a wheel of the vehicle is fitted with a temporary use spare tyre, unless the vehicle is driven at a speed exceeding 50 mph.

Paragraph (1)(a) refers to tyres being put to an undefined "suitable use" or being of different construction to the other tyres, so doesn't necessarilly apply if all tyres are of the same relational size and construction.

 

Different size wheels/tyres on the same axle will adversely affect the handling which is why it's intended as an emergency get you home / place of repair and a 50 mph limit is a safety recommendation and, unlike the space saver, not a legal requirement.

It would also be an MOT failure if it were presented in situ.

I certainly would drive more carefully with a full size spare. What I was trying to say was, as you point out,  it is not a legal requirement.

Should really put the space saver on the back.  

I assume you mean if you have a front punctured you should swap the wheel to the back.

How are you going to Jack two wheels up at the same time?

I had the misfortune to blow my nearside front 19 inch tire recently on a bad pothole. I fitted my spare 215/60 R16 with the yellow markings provided by Skoda to the front nearside  and used it for a day or two whilst everything was being fixed. It was noticeable that the n/s front was different, and the car didn't respond as well when turning right, but with care and not exceeding 50 mph, I was quite happy. Some cars provide a much narrower and meaner true space saver wheel. I am not sure that I would have been happy to drive any distance with such a wheel  and tire on the front end.

1 hour ago, facet edge said:

I assume you mean if you have a front punctured you should swap the wheel to the back.

How are you going to Jack two wheels up at the same time?

You don't have to. Jack up rear, remove wheel put on spare. Drop car (not literally)

Jack up front, remove flat replace with rear.

Probably not recommended on Motorway hard shoulder (if these exist anymore)

2 hours ago, rhino1401 said:

You don't have to. Jack up rear, remove wheel put on spare. Drop car (not literally)

Jack up front, remove flat replace with rear.

Probably not recommended on Motorway hard shoulder (if these exist anymore)

 

Yeah, I didn't think that one through did I? Mind you, the only time I had to change a tyre I found the nuts on so tight I couldn't undo them. 

6 hours ago, Caspian said:

I had the misfortune to blow my nearside front 19 inch tire recently on a bad pothole. I fitted my spare 215/60 R16 with the yellow markings provided by Skoda to the front nearside  and used it for a day or two whilst everything was being fixed. It was noticeable that the n/s front was different, and the car didn't respond as well when turning right, but with care and not exceeding 50 mph, I was quite happy. Some cars provide a much narrower and meaner true space saver wheel. I am not sure that I would have been happy to drive any distance with such a wheel  and tire on the front end.

 

9 hours ago, IJWS15 said:

Should really put the space saver on the back.  

 

It's the slip angle - the difference between the direction the tyre is facing and the direction it is actually travelling. No problem if all tyres have the same slip angle but if one has a different slip angle it induces additional over- or understeer which only increases the faster you go and that's what @Caspian felt, excess understeer. This is more critical for the front steering tyres than the rear trailing tyres. A rear-end slide is easier to control than a front-end slide.  This is why, ideally, a temporary spare of any kind should go on the rear if possible, as @IJWS15 quite rightly said. Also consider that the front does more braking than the rear.

The size and rigidity of the sidewall, the rubber compound, velocity, the friction of the road surface and the tyre pressure all have an effect on the slip angle.

As I initially said in this thread while trying to avoid going into these boring technicalities; you should restrict your speed with mismatched tyres - they will always have an adverse effect on the handling.

 

But pretty please, before anyone says 'but the Mercedes/Porsche/F1/Whatever has different sized tyres front and rear' --- the suspension, toe-in/out, camber and anti-roll of those cars are all tuned for using those specific different front/rear tyre sizes on each specific model, but put on a single different sized tyre and you will encounter the exact same problems.

Edited 4 September, 20178 yr by BillyJim

You can avoid cornering too fast and accelerating too hard but emergency brake applications depend on what others do around you.  With different tyre sizes on the front, where most of the braking is done, you are more likely to lose control.  

 

Have driven on  a real space saver once.  Put it on the front as the puncture happened on the M25  and I didn't want to be on the hard shoulder any longer than necessary.  Drove very carefully into Romford to get the tyre replaced, when you have done it you understand why it goes on the back..  

A slight aside to this topic, but I always thought that if you had a puncture on the motorway you (legally) had to wait for the recovery services to tow you off the motorway or change it for you with the aid of flashing lights and high-viz - you couldn't just crack on and do it yourself yourself on the hard shoulder. Is that incorrect?

2 hours ago, CheshireBumpkin said:

A slight aside to this topic, but I always thought that if you had a puncture on the motorway you (legally) had to wait for the recovery services to tow you off the motorway or change it for you with the aid of flashing lights and high-viz - you couldn't just crack on and do it yourself yourself on the hard shoulder. Is that incorrect?

No. If you're on a hard shoulder or refuge you're expected to do it yourself if you can.

 

If you're on a normal motorway hard shoulder and are unable to do it yourself or feel unsafe about doing it then contact the motorway control room using the roadside emergency phone. If possible you should avoid resorting to using a mobile phone to call an assistance service - response will often be slower and the motorway control room won't be aware of your presence, location or predicament. Be prepared to pass details of the assistance service you want called out, otherwise a local recovery may be called at your expense. Make a note of the number and letter on the marker post closest to your vehicle before you call - it helps to locate your exact position within 50 metres. The marker post also has an arrow pointing in the direction of the nearest emergency phone.

Do not dial 999 just because you have a puncture/breakdown.

If the puncture is on the offside then move the vehicle as close to the verge as possible and if you're able to, grab some of that verge too.

Before you start - Ensure your hazard lights are on and if it's dark put sidelights on too. Get all passengers out of the vehicle and have them remain behind the barrier. If you have a vest then wear it, your passengers too. If you have an emergency triangle place it at least 300 metres behind your car - you can assess 300 metres by counting the marker posts which are placed every 100 metres.

 

If you're on a stupid Smart motorway with no hard shoulder and cannot limp to a refuge (these are a maximum of 2.5 km apart), slip off or service area then put your hazard lights on and try to mount the verge as much as possible but allowing room to open the nearside doors, grab your vests and get yourself and the passengers out of the car using only the nearside doors and get behind the barrier. If you can't do all this then dial 999 immediately.

Smart motorways are constantly monitored and the CCTV operators should notice your stationary car with the hazard lights flashing and quickly set the gantry signing to close your lane (red X) and warn of a stranded vehicle on the information signs. Do not hesitate to dial 999 but try to make a note of the number/letter on the marker post closest to your car. Under no circumstances should you return to your vehicle or attempt to carry out any repair.

If you can get to a refuge then the same applies as for a hard shoulder but use the emergency phone to alert the control room regardless of whether or not you intend to carry out the wheel change yourself.

 

Edit: What I forgot to mention, when working on your car always angle yourself so you face towards and have a view of the oncoming traffic

Edited 5 September, 20178 yr by BillyJim

With regard to warning triangles on motorways, the Highway Code states:-

 

"leave the vehicle by the left-hand door and ensure your passengers do the same. You MUST leave any animals in the vehicle or, in an emergency, keep them under proper control on the verge. Never attempt to place a warning triangle on a motorway"

 

it it also says:-

 

"do not put yourself in danger by attempting even simple repairs"

Edited 5 September, 20178 yr by daveo138

1 hour ago, BillyJim said:

No. If you're on a hard shoulder or refuge you're expected to do it yourself if you can.

 

If you're on a normal motorway hard shoulder and are unable to do it yourself or feel unsafe about doing it then contact the motorway control room using the roadside emergency phone. If possible you should avoid resorting to using a mobile phone to call an assistance service - response will often be slower and the motorway control room won't be aware of your presence, location or predicament. Be prepared to pass details of the assistance service you want called out, otherwise a local recovery may be called at your expense. Make a note of the number and letter on the marker post closest to your vehicle before you call - it helps to locate your exact position within 50 metres. The marker post also has an arrow pointing in the direction of the nearest emergency phone.

Do not dial 999 just because you have a puncture/breakdown.

If the puncture is on the offside then move the vehicle as close to the verge as possible and if you're able to, grab some of that verge too.

Before you start - Ensure your hazard lights are on and if it's dark put sidelights on too. Get all passengers out of the vehicle and have them remain behind the barrier. If you have a vest then wear it, your passengers too. If you have an emergency triangle place it at least 300 metres behind your car - you can assess 300 metres by counting the marker posts which are placed every 100 metres.

 

If you're on a stupid Smart motorway with no hard shoulder and cannot limp to a refuge (these are a maximum of 2.5 km apart), slip off or service area then put your hazard lights on and try to mount the verge as much as possible but allowing room to open the nearside doors, grab your vests and get yourself and the passengers out of the car using only the nearside doors and get behind the barrier. If you can't do all this then dial 999 immediately.

Smart motorways are constantly monitored and the CCTV operators should notice your stationary car with the hazard lights flashing and quickly set the gantry signing to close your lane (red X) and warn of a stranded vehicle on the information signs. Do not hesitate to dial 999 but try to make a note of the number/letter on the marker post closest to your car. Under no circumstances should you return to your vehicle or attempt to carry out any repair.

If you can get to a refuge then the same applies as for a hard shoulder but use the emergency phone to alert the control room regardless of whether or not you intend to carry out the wheel change yourself.

 

Edit: What I forgot to mention, when working on your car always angle yourself so you face towards and have a view of the oncoming traffic

 

Interesting. Wonder where I got the idea it was illegal from? Probably justifying an idle incident from my youth... :-)

31 minutes ago, daveo138 said:

With regard to warning triangles on motorways, the Highway Code states:-

 

"leave the vehicle by the left-hand door and ensure your passengers do the same. You MUST leave any animals in the vehicle or, in an emergency, keep them under proper control on the verge. Never attempt to place a warning triangle on a motorway"

 

That is right, but as someone that policed the M3 and M25 for 20+ years I'm going to give as much advanced warning as I possibly can if I'm likely to be stopped on the hard shoulder for more than just a few minutes.

The German requirement on the Autobahn is to place a warning triangle on the hard shoulder 150 metres behind your stricken car and close to the marginal strip. That's on a motorway with no speed limit!

When it comes to my and the other motorists safety I'll opt for the German method.

Common sense must prevail too - when walking try to keep behind the barrier if you can, if not then use the verge. If you have to walk on the hard shoulder keep to the very inside and maintain a constant vigil on the traffic.

I have seen the reference about no warning triangle on the motorway but would still do it.  I want the oncoming driver to hear something before he hits me, and the clatter will give me a couple of seconds warning.  

 

I also told swmbo to watch and warn me if there was any sign of an approaching vehicle encroaching on the hard shoulder.   Essentially the less time I spend on the hard shoulder the better so I will change the  tyre myself - done it twice in the last 30 years it is not a pleasant experience.