Strange, but not unusual if you have enough to do with cars and garages. 

Not strange if people with them come to you asking about problems.

I was one of the first waiting for a drive of a ASG car when they came out and got test drives as soon as i could.

6 hours ago, AwaoffSki said:

 

 

ChrisGB, are you a truck or taxi driver?

2,000,000 divided by 40 is 50,000 miles a year.  Lots of driving.

 

Chris is a driving instructor.

I wondered, not that many do 1,000 miles or more for 40 years or more. 

Non OEM pads and problem is gone. Where did the "hot spot" go now? 

 

I drove taxi for 13 years. Not warped discs. But back then pads were different. Not as much metal particles in them than Citigo's pads include.

 

Looks like this topic isn't going anywhere anymore. I'm done, thank you. 

It is going no place, but then you never started the thread.

In your thread you changed your discs and pads and upgraded and all is well, 

but oddly you defend the original parts that VW fit to the Up!MiiCitigo when many know there were plenty substandard supplied.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/311938-i-had-to-order-new-brake-discs/?page=1 

Edited 7 January, 20188 yr by AwaoffSki

OEM pads and discs are good, but just wrong for this car model. Too much heat as front brakes are so effective. With non OEM pads discs works great as they generate less heat. No blue discs anymore. 

The fact that the problem seems to be related to wheel nut torque (experience from 186,000 miles in Citigos) would signify the hub to be the issue, not the disc or hat. 

 

I've driven about 1.5-1.7 million miles myself and another half a million with students. Brake problems I've had so far:

 

Fabia VRS remapped, heat damaged discs due to manic flat out 2 hour cross country C road drive trying to get to an urgent appointment when a major road was blocked. The Mintex Extreme pads actually caught fire at one point. Never faded mind. New discs and pads fitted, never a problem again.

 

Skoda Citigos, used as learner cars, never braked hard enough to create any real heat. First Citigo developed slight wobble at 3000 miles, got progressively worse over time until discs and pads replaced by me. Fine again for 10000 miles until car had wheels removed (tyres or servicing, can't remember which), then problems develop over 3000 miles.  Current Citigo, new discs and pads fitted by me just after serve and new tyres. Very precise torque on very clean hubs. Not a hint of a wobble until, 28000 miles later, wheels where removed at service, then wobble at around 3000 miles. I'm doing new discs, pads and tyres in a week or two, so should sort it out then. I've tried Skoda pads and aftermarket. Made no difference.

 

This all points to the hub being an inappropriate design, probably not quite thick enough to ensure the hat stays flat unless wheel bolt torque is very progressively and accurately applied. 

 

You can cause a problem of "hot spots" by holding the brake on when the discs and pads are hot enough to leave a film of brake material on the disc, this is a known failure mode that can affect any car, but you'd have to have been going some for it to happen.

 

Discs are generally very resilient if properly fitted. I've run my MR2 brakes so hot that the yellowstuff pads completely faded. Not a hint of a problem with the discs after that (I use normal aftermarket blue point as they are as good as anything else and aggressive pads thin any disc quickly) and they regularly get used hot enough to smell / smoke.

 

So maybe, just possibly, VAG brakes are marginal, but the problem here is almost definitely a hub design issue. If it was a disc or pad issue, wheel nut torque wouldn't be an issue.

2 hours ago, mdk1 said:

 

Chris is a driving instructor.

 

I probably do less miles now than I did before I was an instructor.

If hub was ruin by over torqued wheel nuts you will need new hubs. New discs wouldn't fix faulty hubs.

 

It is always good to use torque wrench when tightening wheel bolts though. It's better for the rims and threads. 

1 hour ago, Emil said:

If hub was ruin by over torqued wheel nuts you will need new hubs. New discs wouldn't fix faulty hubs.

 

It is always good to use torque wrench when tightening wheel bolts though. It's better for the rims and threads. 

I think the hub is not ruined by over tightening, but is slightly pulled if torque is not very evenly applied. The fact that if you fit new discs and do it right, you don't get problems would indicate that the hubs are not permanently damaged.

18 hours ago, Emil said:

I drive very heavy vehicles and no warped brake discs due "hot spot". That's just ridiculous theory. Something very badly wrong if discs get warped after braking. 

 

Hard braking just before pond would ruin brake discs because of temperature changes. That was a problem with Ford Sierra back in the 80's.

 

Edit: Kind of funny that a person who doesn't even own a Citigo "knows" that brakes are crap. 

 

Emil, brake disc warpage due to heat and hotspots caused by someone keeping their foot on the brake after a 'hot stop' is not a theory, it's fact!  However just heat on its own does not cause disc warping. You can run your disc red hot and you won't get warping unless you keep a foot on the brake  after stopping. At the dealership when I worked as a master tech, we looked after many many driving school cars. Learner cars can take a bit of a hammering compared to a privately owned vehicle. I know this as I too held an ADI licence for 12 years and taught a range of drivers. They do a lot of emergency stops, mostly from 30mph. But that is fast enough to be classed as a hot stop. Invariably the learner driver will often take a bit longer to lift off the brake, some more than others. It does take its toll and brake warpage occurs just a bit more often in those cars. It was noticeable from the number of school cars that needed new discs fitted to cure just that issue compared to privately owned vehicles. Are some vehicles more prone to this issue? Probably! But my own opinion is that the Citigo in normal use is no different to any other car.

19 hours ago, Emil said:

I drive very heavy vehicles and no warped brake discs due "hot spot". That's just ridiculous theory. Something very badly wrong if discs get warped after braking. 

 

Hard braking just before pond would ruin brake discs because of temperature changes. That was a problem with Ford Sierra back in the 80's.

 

Edit: Kind of funny that a person who doesn't even own a Citigo "knows" that brakes are crap. 

 

Emil, forgot to say that AwayOffski is one of the foremost authorities on Skoda cars and comes from a car trade back ground. Not much he doesn't know. You can trust what he says.

So I'm pretty lucky that I have not own a car which have such poor quality brakes which suffer in normal use. I always keep my car stationary with brakes when I'm at traffic lights.  So how do you keep car stationary? Turn of the engine and put it on first gear?

 

If and only if there is warpage caused by hot spot, Citigo isn't one of those cars. As aren't those approximately 40 cars I have owned. 

29 minutes ago, Emil said:

So I'm pretty lucky that I have not own a car which have such poor quality brakes which suffer in normal use. I always keep my car stationary with brakes when I'm at traffic lights.  So how do you keep car stationary? Turn of the engine and put it on first gear?

 

If and only if there is warpage caused by hot spot, Citigo isn't one of those cars. As aren't those approximately 40 cars I have owned. 

You use your hand brake at traffic lights.. not your foot brake.

No. I don't use hand brake at traffic lights.

 

How could it even work in theory? Rear brakes are also hot if front brakes are.

 

And how about Saab. Hand brake use front brakes. 

No idea where this hot brake thing keeps coming in with town and city driving but each to their own.

You do see plenty never off the brake pedal,. even out on open roads.

 

(Drums on the rear of a Citigo, and really they are not hot in normal commuting, crossing town surely, even driving out of town)

Do some just drive in some parallel universe?

 

As to the UK, there is a different Highway Code to other countries, and driving practice for many that were taught well, and had or have mechanical hand brakes,.

they do apply a hand brake at extended stops, so as not to have on rear brake lights in adverse weather etc.

Then many still do on hill starts where there is no 'Hill Hold' / Hill Start assist.

 

Maybe it is a cultural thing and just different driving practices.

Edited 8 January, 20188 yr by AwaoffSki

Only thing I can be certain of is that I've taught in Corsa, fiesta, focus, Fabia, mini (Bini) Rio and Citigo. Both Citigo had the problem, none of the others did. 

Just some fuel on the fire.

 

Warped brake discs by keeping your foot on the break pedal?

So all automatic gearbox drivers are changing out their disc every 5k? Think not!

 

I have now my second issue with warped brake discs. I want my dealer to pay for the next set or bye bye customer.

 

How about the brake master cylinder malfunction, poor wheel alignment  or bend drive shaft, will this have the same result?

 

I'd love to know, any mechanic out there?

 

Thanks.

If you feel it only when braking I'd say it can't be wheel alignment, or bend drive shaft. Loose bushings could do it, but most likely brake discs. 

 

I need new discs too soon. I would be 3rd pair for this car. Driven 40000km or so.

2 hours ago, kamidude said:

Just some fuel on the fire.

Warped brake discs by keeping your foot on the break pedal?

So all automatic gearbox drivers are changing out their disc every 5k? Think not!

But all autos have handbrakes? So it’s no different to a manual in respect of using the brakes. Holding onto the footbrake causes the heat to warp the disk eventually, by using the handbrake when stopping at lights or other junctions etc, minimises the chances. 

Hi Emil, 

I am 90% sure its warped brake discs, but my question is what is the cause?

 

1 minute ago, Jonny118118 said:

But all autos have handbrakes? So it’s no different to a manual in respect of using the brakes. Holding onto the footbrake causes the heat to warp the disk eventually, by using the handbrake when stopping at lights or other junctions etc, minimises the chances. 

 

I have never put on the handbreak, in stead of the break pedal  while driving an automatic at the traffic lights.

Hmmmm.

No one put on the handbrake when at the traffic lights. That would be unnecessary. 

2 hours ago, Emil said:

No one put on the handbrake when at the traffic lights. That would be unnecessary. 

 

2 hours ago, kamidude said:

 

I have never put on the handbreak, in stead of the break pedal  while driving an automatic at the traffic lights.

Hmmmm.

Helps to stop discs warping though. 

Also stops drivers behind being dazzled by your brake lights too. 

 

After all - handbrakes are there to be used, may as well use em’!?

If brake lights are dazzling you shouldn't drive a car at all.

 

Handbrake is there to keep car stationary if you need to park it up or down hill. It's not needed at traffic lights.