what does everyone think about wheel balancing after fitting new tyres

do you think it's absolutely necessary?,   is it really required ?

 

some people say providing the wheel itself is properly balanced [ it should be if it's been on the car previously with no wheel wobble etc ]

then modern tyres, especially  premium brands, are so well made the weights virtually the same all around the whole tyre anyway.

what do ya think

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think the tyres are manufactured perfectly round and symmetrically? The manufacturers put a dot on the sidewall to show where the heavy point of the tyres is, so I doubt they're really ready to fit and use without balancing on the wheel.

I used to have a tyre machine but no balancer, so I just lined the heavy point dot on the new tyre up with where it was on the old tyre.

 

I read somewhere 90% of any imbalance is normally in the rim. 

22 minutes ago, Rustynuts said:

You think the tyres are manufactured perfectly round and symmetrically? The manufacturers put a dot on the sidewall to show where the heavy point of the tyres is, so I doubt they're really ready to fit and use without balancing on the wheel.

I realise they put a red, yellow , white or whatever colour marking on tyres, but what I,m saying is it makes no real difference  to wheel balancing as the weight difference is so little.

6 minutes ago, StevesTruck said:

I used to have a tyre machine but no balancer, so I just lined the heavy point dot on the new tyre up with where it was on the old tyre.

 

I read somewhere 90% of any imbalance is normally in the rim. 

that,s  exactly what I was thinking too,

the wheel on it's own is more important than the wheel and tyre when it comes to balancing.

 

I have a manual tyre changing machine and bubble balancer  and the last 4 tyre changes, there has been no need to alter the existing weights on the wheel and no wheel wobble or vibration.

just seems to much of a coincidence if tyres are supposed to have a light & heavy side

 

 

10 minutes ago, 310golfr said:

I realise they put a red, yellow , white or whatever colour marking on tyres, but what I,m saying is it makes no real difference  to wheel balancing as the weight difference is so little.

 

Then don't bother balancing your new tyres then, if it makes no difference. Simples. If that's the answer, why ask the question?

 

Just as an example, I had a set of tyres swapped on my last car and there was about 50g of weights on one front wheel. Fitted the new tyre and it took about 10 grams, so I presume it must've been the wheel out of balance and it fixed itself just when the tyres were changed?

Edited 28 April, 20188 yr by Rustynuts

It's called wheel balance for a reason, when you balance a "wheel" you are in effect balancing the tyre and rim as a whole, and believe me it makes a huge difference.

 

If you drive a vehicle with a front "wheel" out of balance on a motorway at speed you feel it through the steering wheel and it's horrible. The vibration can also cause metal fatigue and stress cracks to suspension arm's and mounting points

 

It can and does make a tyre wear un even as well.

A tyre can and does rotate on a rim under heavy acceleration and breaking though (checked it myself when I used to rally) so there may well be some truth.

 

BUT usually when new tyres are fitted the weights are rarely in the exact same place.

6 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

A tyre can and does rotate on a rim under heavy acceleration and breaking though (checked it myself when I used to rally) so there may well be some truth.

 

BUT usually when new tyres are fitted the weights are rarely in the exact same place.

I know what you mean when you say the weights are rarely in the exact same place after getting new tyres fitted,

but that's 4 x 4 tyre changes  I've done now, 2 different cars with both 15 and 16 inch wheels,  so 16 tyre changes in total  and there's been no need to alter existing weights and no vibration or wobble.

just wondering why that is,  and just thinking maybe the wheel is more important when it comes to balancing

Undoubtedly the tolerance on a tyre needs to be better than a wheel as the further out on the diameter you go the greater effect it will have on the balancing. 

Well, IME an out of balance wheel/tyre on the steer axle can be felt at speeds as low as 50mph.

 

Also the yellow dot is a deliberately engineered light point on the tyre to allow for the mass of the valve and stem.

Some further info.

 

https://blobs.continental-tires.com/www8/servlet/blob/554548/e3119edf9831c33103e5a771a0fe5717/download-coloured-dot-markings-data.pdf

I seem to remember that back in the days when bad stuff like lead was used for wheel balance weights, Michelin's advert claimed that cars with their tyres on had less lead in them!

We fit tyres at my work, if it requires more than 70 grams we deflate It, pop the bead and spin it on the wheel 180 degrees. You would be surprised how many times this makes it go below 70 grams. The most I have had to spin one was 3 times to check the weight at each 90 degrees and it finally came in on the last one. A guy at work span one 8 times once to get it below 70. The wheel was buckled but at least it didn't have 200 grams stuck on It!

I have run plenty 4x4 offroaders over the years, and used them on road as well, and keeping balance weights on can be a problem, hence i use Balance Beads and have done me well even with BF Goodrich (Michelin) tyres.   

You certainly know when you lose a balance weight when wheels / tyres were fitted with them.

As to 4x4s and tyres spinning on rims, that is why people use rim (bead) lockers, as we did with motor bikes as well, trials etc.

& Dyna balance beads are perfect for motorbike wheels / tyres.

http://dynabeads.co.uk 

Simpy clever to use them.

 

 

Edited 20 May, 20188 yr by Offski

I mount my own tyres onto the rims and always check the balance on a bubble balancer. Usually the wheels are balanced within 20 grams before balancing, but occasionally one is 40 grams out. I don't usually add weights to balance the wheels but I don't drive at more than 56mph. When I do fit a weight, they are of the stick on type. Clip on ones on steel wheels will take the paint off and therefore rust. Steel wheels do tend to rust anyway but I don't like the idea of scrapping the paint off myself.

 

Using a bubble balancer is called static balancing. Using a machine that spins the wheel is called dynamic balancing. If you added the same amount of weight opposite each other but one on the outer side of the rim and one on the inner side of the rim, then the wheel would still be statically balanced but not dynamically balanced. In this situation you will get shimmy when driving at speed, but not an up and down oscillation. That's why dynamically balancing your wheels is better than statically balancing them.

 

I also mend my own car tyre punctures by sticking top quality German made round (25mm diameter) feather edged bicycle inner tube patches. In almost 20 years of doing this, I've never had one of my repairs fail. I use isopropyl alcohol to clean where the patch is going to go, and a special tool called a stitcher (it's like a small roller) to get rid of any air bubbles. I don't think tyre garages are allowed to repair tubeless tyres with patches anymore, but I could be wrong. Maybe it's just too time consuming. Also, unless your workmanship is first class, the patch repair could fail.

Edited 22 February, 20206 yr by Carlston

Valuable tyres can get sent for hot vulcanised repairs and the turn around can be 2 days, quicker if you have someplace near you that does it.

 

http://candstyres.co.uk/tyre-vulcanising

 

Edited 22 February, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

11 hours ago, Carlston said:

I mount my own tyres onto the rims and always check the balance on a bubble balancer. Usually the wheels are balanced within 20 grams before balancing, but occasionally one is 40 grams out. I don't usually add weights to balance the wheels but I don't drive at more than 56mph. When I do fit a weight, they are of the stick on type. Clip on ones on steel wheels will take the paint off and therefore rust. Steel wheels do tend to rust anyway but I don't like the idea of scrapping the paint off myself.

 

Using a bubble balancer is called static balancing. Using a machine that spins the wheel is called dynamic balancing. If you added the same amount of weight opposite each other but one on the outer side of the rim and one on the inner side of the rim, then the wheel would still be statically balanced but not dynamically balanced. In this situation you will get shimmy when driving at speed, but not an up and down oscillation. That's why dynamically balancing your wheels is better than statically balancing them.

 

I also mend my own car tyre punctures by sticking top quality German made round (25mm diameter) feather edged bicycle inner tube patches. In almost 20 years of doing this, I've never had one of my repairs fail. I use isopropyl alcohol to clean where the patch is going to go, and a special tool called a stitcher (it's like a small roller) to get rid of any air bubbles. I don't think tyre garages are allowed to repair tubeless tyres with patches anymore, but I could be wrong. Maybe it's just too time consuming. Also, unless your workmanship is first class, the patch repair could fail.

i always say if you 've got tools and know how then why not diy.

some people think your trying to save a few quid  🤪, but for me thats not what it's all about , the cost of the tyre bar , tyre machine plus other bits is more than what it would cost to take to a tyre place.  if you do enough changes/repairs then i suppose you'll get your money back eventually but dont really care  🤑

theres a certain satisfaction in doing it yourself   😜

 

with punctures, once you have the tyre off, you might as well do it right. i use the mushroom type plugs with the wire stem.  buff down around puncture hole, drill through with a reamer drill then pull the wired plug through and smooth down with roller.

For me it was always the satisfaction and the learning, gaining of experience and more skills, at the very least when one os no longer capable of DIY or chooses not to you will have the savoir faire to decide who you can trust and who is either bullsh1tting or ripping you off.

 

Since moving to rural France where the services and businesses that are every where in the UK just dont exist full stop or if they do they will never even answer the phone or give a price I have realised just how valuable and essential being autonomous really is.

 

Anyone going in to a tyre place in these parts hoping for a puncture repair will get ripped off for 2 new overpriced tyres, fitting, balancing and disposal of their old ones and probably be off the road for a week because they will have removed both tyres from the rim before announcing that the news ones aren't in stock but will be there the perpetual next day.