1.5 dsg 4x4

[RoystonVasey]

Just been over to the dealer to sign my finance paperwork ahead of picking up my karoq in a week or two. He told me that they are phasing out the current dsg on the 1.5, bringing in a new dsg and making the 1.5 4x4. Later this year is all the detail he could give. Interesting though. I'd have been tempted to blow the budget on that!

[Ootohere]

Sounds great and exactly what Skoda, SEAT, VW & AUDI need.  1.5TSI / DSG / AWD with GPF and acceptable emissions and economy.

 

 All they need to do is build them, certify them and the customers will order and buy them.

So time will tell just where Skoda & their customers comes in VW Groups priority.... Late 2018 / 2019 or before the end 2020 by when Skoda is to get so many new models.

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/volkswagen-faces-production-halt-amid-wltp-certification-delays 

[FordFocusDriver]

That's excellent news, I'd buy a 1.5 TSI 4x4 (I'd have it with a manual gearbox, but I'll take an automatic of that's what's on offer), I just hope they don't limit it to the top level trim.

Incidentally, I emailed Skoda UK about this just a few weeks ago and was told "there are no plans for this vehicle specification to be offered in the UK in the immediate future" so I hope it's true - maybe it was my email that sparked the change of mind? ;)

[TheRobinK]

Could have been 

 

Of course, we probably need the buggers to give us their definition of "immediate future" ...

[eribaMotters]

I'm a cynic. I don't believe it until I can sit in one.

 

Colin

[VAGCF]

Hope they keep producing a 1.5 petrol 2WD though as that's what I want, if and when they bring out the 4x4.

 

It's good that I won't be changing the Yeti until later next year as by then changes and new models may have come out which may be more attractive to me.

[nickfrog]

What would be the benefit of 4wd for a low powered road car on the correct tyre ?

Edited 8 June, 2018 by nickfrog

[Ootohere]

Part time AWD has its uses depending on Location location location & users requirements.

A Karoq is not exactly a lightweight vehicle so for those towing even just  off a wet field, launching on a slipway or just looking to get up and down snowy / slippy roads it might well be the difference between sitting spinning 1 or 2 wheels with no traction or spinning 3 or 4, or actually the right tyres fitted and traction and forward action.

 

Horses for courses, or SUV's that are SUV's and not just look like crossovers.

[Agerbundsen]

23 hours ago, nickfrog said:

What would be the benefit of 4wd for a low powered road car on the correct tyre ?

I won't get into the semantics about full time or part time 4WD. The Haldex system works all the time. About 10% of the power goes to the rear axle, simply due to oil friction in the drive.

 

The transfer of some power to the rear happens much more frequently than you would imagine without experiencing it. Rapid acceleration - even on a dry road - transfers enough power to the rear that all four drives forward. Cornering on wet roads ditto. Much less understeer and a more agile behavior on the road.

 

....but you are absolutely correct in that the right tyres are paramount for good performance under all conditions. FWD with good winter rubber is much better than 4x4 with summer tyres.

[nickfrog]

We have never lost traction wet or dry so that would be lost on us on the road. Although we only use it as a family car as I have other weaponry for track days thankfully. And that's still resolutely not 4wd either!

[eribaMotters]

I am surprised you have never lost traction. I think it would be more likely you are unaware of when it might have happened. I drive a bit like a vicar and yet once my Yeti went sideways on a country road where a lorry had spilt gravel. At the time I had a caravan on the back so not fun. Second time I sensed something as the temperature dropped, and the sleet started to fall, and that was with winter tyres on.

 

Colin

[Guest]

This happened earlier today;

 

Hailstorm halts M9 motorway traffic - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-44426025

 

Even though it was supposed to be summer, I would still regularly encounter icy roads on my 0400 commute to work. 

 

I'm not sure my 2wd Honda Civic would have been able to cope with some of the driving conditions that I've experienced over the last few years. 

 

As for the semantics of the technology, I really don't care if the system is AWD, all Wheel drive, 4x4, haldex or whatever, as long as it keeps me on the road, as opposed to a ditch, I'm a happy bunny. Which, so far, my Octy Scout has been able to do. 

 

[nickfrog]

1 hour ago, eribaMotters said:

I am surprised you have never lost traction. I think it would be more likely you are unaware of when it might have happened. I drive a bit like a vicar and yet once my Yeti went sideways on a country road where a lorry had spilt gravel. At the time I had a caravan on the back so not fun. Second time I sensed something as the temperature dropped, and the sleet started to fall, and that was with winter tyres on.

 

Colin

 

Sorry Colin. I meant to say we never lost traction in Karoq over the first 3k miles - in the TDI150 Tiguan probably a handful of times in the very wet out of a tight roundabout, mostly intentionally (we didn't actually lose traction, just the TC light flashed). Really doesn't justify 4wd for road use, just a bit of basic throttle modulation.

 

Stability control on the other hand never came on. What you're describing sounds more like a loss of lateral grip where 4wd would have had zero effect of course. 

Edited 9 June, 2018 by nickfrog

[nickfrog]

59 minutes ago, Fin69 said:

I'm not sure my 2wd Honda Civic would have been able to cope with some of the driving conditions that I've experienced over the last few years. 

 

 

On the right tyre it would have been fine - 4wd only adds traction, not lat grip - when turning in or braking you're off the throttle so 4wd doesn't make a difference.

[Ootohere]

Good when there are choices for people to get what they want or need.

Good that you can buy choices of tyres because the VW Group / Skoda certainly do not fit 'the right tyres' for the cars delivered new to the UK for everyone's use, location and usage dependent.

Be that 2 or 4 wheel drive.   

[pinkpanther]

My dealer told me there would be a petrol 4x4 'by the end of this year' Hoping it's manual though, as definitely not a fan of DSG!

 

[pinkpanther]

16 hours ago, nickfrog said:

 

Sorry Colin. I meant to say we never lost traction in Karoq over the first 3k miles - in the TDI150 Tiguan probably a handful of times in the very wet out of a tight roundabout, mostly intentionally (we didn't actually lose traction, just the TC light flashed). Really doesn't justify 4wd for road use, just a bit of basic throttle modulation.

 

Stability control on the other hand never came on. What you're describing sounds more like a loss of lateral grip where 4wd would have had zero effect of course. 

My desire for 4x4 relates more to both improved traction and a more sophisticated rear suspension (independent, rather than a solid torsion beam). It also helps in muddy fields, but I suspect tyres are the key factor here

 

I've driven / owned both 2WD and 4WD iterations of several Skoda's  (both the mark I and mk II Octavia, mk II superb and Yeti) and in every case the 4WD variant is a generally more capable, comfortable and accomplished in general on road driving. The small (circa 10%) fuel penalty seems a small price to pay.

 

Consumer choice is however the main driver here, so most variants offered for sale will undoubtedly remain 2WD.

[JanJan]

Its nice for customers to have the option of a petrol engine with 4x4. But in reality 4x4 by itself is a niche thing if you ask me. You don't need 4x4 on a motorway, in the city. Sure, if you live in the country side, with really muddy/clay roads and your daily commute involves getting out of a muddy field... Even in proper winter, unless you are driving in the countryside on a daily basis where nobody is maintaining the roads, its not that needed really. As for the mentioned hail and such conditions - well, 4x4 doesn't really give you much safety, its mostly all about the tyres you have. The average customer of an SUV (no matter if its a skoda, vw tiguan, nissan quasqai etc etc) is driving on solid roads, going for groceries, taking children to the school and going on a family vacation in weekend. If you actually need an offroader (e.g. you are a hunter, your work is related to forestry etc etc) for everyday use, you usually look elsewhere.

 

 

I'm more interested in the "bringing a new dsg" part. What's that's suppose to mean? Are they making a new one? Moving to existing wet clutch ones for 1.5 maybe?

Edited 11 June, 2018 by JanJan

[Ootohere]

There is a alternative that might or might not be built in the Czech Republic and car brokers can maybe supply for about £23,000.

 

The Hyundai Kona Premium GT T-GDI  petrol Auto DCT AWD 1.6 177ps.

5 year warranty.

http://hyundai-motor.cz/english.php 

Edited 11 June, 2018 by Offski

[Ootohere]

JanJan which part of the UK do you live in, and do you travel around the country.

 

There are cities with hills and areas that when there are adverse conditions roads are not treated and people can not get their vehicles in or out of their driveway / parking place or street.

There are places in the UK that are Cities, Towns or Villages that have several weeks a year where there is no Blacktop road showing.

Obviously the Post Van, ASDA / Tesco and other home delivery vehicles get around, just often not those on Low Profile ECO / Summer / All Season Tyres, 

sometimes driving Crossover / SUV's.

Also Obviously that Fiesta / Ka / Picanto / Panda etc just keeps rolling along happily, not all the gear, just narrower tyres, less weight and a driver with a bit of an idea.

[JanJan]

47 minutes ago, Offski said:

JanJan which part of the UK do you live in, and do you travel around the country.

 

There are cities with hills and areas that when there are adverse conditions roads are not treated and people can not get their vehicles in or out of their driveway / parking place or street.

There are places in the UK that are Cities, Towns or Villages that have several weeks a year where there is no Blacktop road showing.

Obviously the Post Van, ASDA / Tesco and other home delivery vehicles get around, just often not those on Low Profile ECO / Summer / All Season Tyres, 

sometimes driving Crossover / SUV's.

Also Obviously that Fiesta / Ka / Picanto / Panda etc just keeps rolling along happily, not all the gear, just narrower tyres, less weight and a driver with a bit of an idea.

I'm actually not from UK, and I live in a country where winter tyres are mandatory from 1st of December till 1st of March. If you search on the internet, the consensus seems to be that 4x4 with summer tyres will perform only slightly better than a 2 wheel drive car in winter conditions, while A 2 wheel drive car with proper winter tyres (or at least all season tyres) will significantly outperform a 4x4 with summer tyres. Proper tyres are very important, even a 4x4 with improper types will perform poorly in poor weather conditions. I bet if you put some semi-slick tyres on a 4x4, it will be just terrible off-road in a field or in some mud even in a summer and warm conditions.

 

As regards to poor road conditions in the country side, where the the road is always wet and muddy (maybe there is clay there, so the water just doesn't go anywhere) and cars going through are just digging tranches with their wheels, I agree, a 4x4 might be needed for every day life.

[Ootohere]

No need really to search the internet i quite often have to tow out vehicles from difficult locations like on or at the side of main roads that had the wrong tyres or wrong driver.  Consensus and Confucius says,  there is no accounting for 'stupid' & 'clueless'.

Its sometimes the case that those that live long enough and drive long enough get to know just what they need or do not need for what they do or where they go.

As to Winter tyre mandatory from December to March, that is good were needed, in parts of the UK that could as well be from August to April, 

or even May and still some will get caught out.

[Agerbundsen]

One must distinguish between the "need" and the "benefit".

Most locations and most drivers NEED proper tyres and a proper education/experience of how to drive under adverse conditions.

On 6/10/2018 at 13:08, pinkpanther said:

I've driven / owned both 2WD and 4WD iterations of several Skoda's  (both the mark I and mk II Octavia, mk II superb and Yeti) and in every case the 4WD variant is a generally more capable, comfortable and accomplished in general on road driving. The small (circa 10%) fuel penalty seems a small price to pay.

 

I fully agree with the above statement, and really appreciate the BENEFIT of the Haldex system on the Karoq and on my previous Yeti's. It is not a NEED, and most people around here get around just fine with FWD - or even RWD.

[agedbriar]

2 hours ago, JanJan said:

I'm actually not from UK, and I live in a country where winter tyres are mandatory from 1st of December till 1st of March. If you search on the internet, the consensus seems to be that 4x4 with summer tyres will perform only slightly better than a 2 wheel drive car in winter conditions, while A 2 wheel drive car with proper winter tyres (or at least all season tyres) will significantly outperform a 4x4 with summer tyres. Proper tyres are very important, even a 4x4 with improper types will perform poorly in poor weather conditions. I bet if you put some semi-slick tyres on a 4x4, it will be just terrible off-road in a field or in some mud even in a summer and warm conditions.

 

As regards to poor road conditions in the country side, where the the road is always wet and muddy (maybe there is clay there, so the water just doesn't go anywhere) and cars going through are just digging tranches with their wheels, I agree, a 4x4 might be needed for every day life.

 

There is people who regularily use winter tyres, yet still need the additional traction that a 4x4 provides on snow. Hilly Slovenia has quite a number of them. Me for one.

Edited 11 June, 2018 by agedbriar

[nickfrog]

On 11/06/2018 at 08:34, JanJan said:

Its nice for customers to have the option of a petrol engine with 4x4. But in reality 4x4 by itself is a niche thing if you ask me. You don't need 4x4 on a motorway, in the city. Sure, if you live in the country side, with really muddy/clay roads and your daily commute involves getting out of a muddy field... Even in proper winter, unless you are driving in the countryside on a daily basis where nobody is maintaining the roads, its not that needed really. As for the mentioned hail and such conditions - well, 4x4 doesn't really give you much safety, its mostly all about the tyres you have. The average customer of an SUV (no matter if its a skoda, vw tiguan, nissan quasqai etc etc) is driving on solid roads, going for groceries, taking children to the school and going on a family vacation in weekend. If you actually need an offroader (e.g. you are a hunter, your work is related to forestry etc etc) for everyday use, you usually look elsewhere.

 

 

I'm more interested in the "bringing a new dsg" part. What's that's suppose to mean? Are they making a new one? Moving to existing wet clutch ones for 1.5 maybe?

 

I agree. It's essentially about the contact patch not the transmission. No amount of skill or wheels driven is going to create friction particularly under braking, which lets face it is where the safety critical aspect is. And 4wd won't help at all. If anything it will increase the amount of kinetic energy through added mass. Same for lateral grip. This is not to say that 4wd doesn't have it's uses on the road but most of the perceived benefit is placebo or a palliative for the right compound IME.

Edited 15 June, 2018 by nickfrog