Engine mounts / Dogone / Engine movement / Clonk sound

[duplisak]

Hello 

 

I am owner of Skoda Fabia MK3 10 TSI ( style ).

 

My Fabia went back to the garage when it had 2000km. I issued a complaint about knock sound when shifting ( letting the clutch and changing gear from 1. to 2nd and 3rd ). A metalic sound that did not sound healty. 

 

They reported back they changed the clutch, release bearing. They told me the reverse gear was loud and it could be the transmiiton too.

 

After the "repair" the noise is still there ( something to do with the 1.0 3 cylinder engines across all manufactures ), VW, SEAT... Just a shame VW could afford this kind of heavy metal clonk sounds from the engine. It is said that it is a characteristic of and engine. If this is the case VW should fire all engineers and send them to an ear specialist since a NEW car should now make sounds like that. If Renault , Citroen 1.0 engines do not make sound like that, why should "german" cars. Hope these VW, Skoda, Seat 1.0 cars get recalled for this serious issue. People seems to just ignore this kind of things.

 

Now back to the part with the engine mounts. After the cluthc replacmenet I noticed a certaing shaking with the engine ( when starting the engine, when shifting, when lightly adding gas to the throtlle). There is a certaing knock underneath the engine and carpet in the engine. I have tried a 2nd fabia when starting engine and driving and it feels with no vibration. Also the gear change is far better.

 

They have replaced the transmition mount and the upper mount. Now they have said it must be the dogone mount since my Fabia drives worse / different than the one they have at the dealer). 

 

I drove a Rapid 1.0 TSI that has the same engine. It drives smooth. No vibrations, no jerkines when adding gas / accelrating.

 

Maybe could it be a engine misfire and my Fabia need recalibration of throtlle of somehow.

 

My fabia just jumps when adding light throtlle. It feels like the whole engine bounces back and forth. Also a loud bank when fully accelrating. It seems like the engine hits in somehere. Could be the bushes. At the garage they have taken down the dog bone mount and for me it is made of thick gelatine. Not black rubber, but gelatine. I think it has to be softer to compensate for the 3 cylinder movement. But it is too soft and the engine is too big. A compayn powerflex is making dogbone inserts to reduce this engine movement, increase shifting and lower wheel hop.. But they do not make them for Mk3 yet.

 

I am runnig out of patience since I am certain that they do not know what are they doing in the garage.

[krigl]

I susspect, that mk2 and mk3 inserts are the same. Go to oemepc.com and search for part no of mk2 and part no of mk3 dogbone mount, if it is the same number. 

[duplisak]

Can not seem to find the right part. no skoda parts here. Just VW

[wiganken1]

If you bought the car from new and it only has 2000km on it I suspect it is less than 6 months old and you can reject the car (in writing) as being of "unsatisfactory quality" and "unfit-for-purpose". Make them give you a new car to replace it. A new car should not suffer this amount of trouble.

[duplisak]

Now it has 10.000km

 

It is 5 months old. Should I demand a new car?

[rum4mo]

I think that my wife's August 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 110PS may well have a similar issue wrt the knocking on/off load with no throttle pedal position change or gear change, and yes it also does that when letting the clutch out, sounds like that you have had 2 different issues, the well known noises when operating the clutch and the one my wife's Polo started having about 8 months ago, which is a quiet but annoying and unnecessary noise probably from the power train moving on its compliant mountings. Though no one else on the Fabia MK3, Ibiza 6J and Polo 6C forums are reporting this!

[RickW]

1 hour ago, duplisak said:

Now it has 10.000km

 

It is 5 months old. Should I demand a new car?

Reject the car in my opinion,but be prepared for a fight if you can stand it.

 

No way would I put up with that on a new car,it's not a characteristic ,it's a fault on your vehicle.

[ettlz]

3 hours ago, rum4mo said:

Though no one else on the Fabia MK3, Ibiza 6J and Polo 6C forums are reporting this!

 

I have somewhere. Trouble is most drivers don't care about smoothness or are insensitive to it anyway.

 

This 1.2 TSI 110 has one of the more backlashy/shifty drivetrains I've driven. Already had a gearbox side mount replaced for clonking, but the noises, vibrations, minor thuds switching between accelerating and decelerating, and general feeling something's moving around that ought not are back.

 

Personally I suspect the dogbone. Convincing a tech that this is a problem and it should be smoother is another issue.

 

@rum4mo: I tried the following as an experiment.

1. Put the handbrake on, stick it in reverse, then bring the clutch up momentarily to bite as if moving off.

2. Put it in first, and bring the clutch up briefly as if moving off again. Is there a slight thump felt throughout the car?

3. Repeat (in first). If it's smooth this time, I reckon the engine/gearbox lump has shifted and the mounts haven't damped it nicely.

Edited 13 June, 2018 by ettlz

[rum4mo]

I am away with my own car for a couple of days, but I did try part of that without hearing anything.

I wonder if it is even the top gearbox mounting? Either way I was hoping that eventually there would be a “parts” revision and I’d just buy newer version and fit it to avoid the painful toing and froing  from the dealer!

I’ve already fitted a “bridging clap” to the fuel supply line and the small coolant return pipe to stop the fuel line knocking/chaffing against the A/C discharge pipe, that works okay, and the other day removed the air inlet plastic part that rattled against the front panel, stuck Velcro round the top and sides and refitted that - that also quietened things down at idle!

[wiganken1]

I believe you have to register with the website but Honest John and his legal team answer questions like "Can I reject the car" and "How to go about it" for free. See https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/

I have no connection with HJ but I have read many of his answers to car owners. Hope this helps

[duplisak]

On 13. 6. 2018 at 09:34, wiganken1 said:

If you bought the car from new and it only has 2000km on it I suspect it is less than 6 months old and you can reject the car (in writing) as being of "unsatisfactory quality" and "unfit-for-purpose". Make them give you a new car to replace it. A new car should not suffer this amount of trouble.

Can not do that here in my country. They keep avoiding it. My car is due to 45 days for repair time.

 

The issue has gone to the factory and they are now looking into it. I am sure they will just say: it's normal...

 

So that will be that. No law is on our side when replacing a fishy car with a new one. Trust me I have been at the dealer more than 10 times. They keep avidin my issue. Should I get a lawyer. I just want to get my money back and keep away from Skoda for the rest of my life.

[duplisak]

On 13. 6. 2018 at 10:05, rum4mo said:

I think that my wife's August 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 110PS may well have a similar issue wrt the knocking on/off load with no throttle pedal position change or gear change, and yes it also does that when letting the clutch out, sounds like that you have had 2 different issues, the well known noises when operating the clutch and the one my wife's Polo started having about 8 months ago, which is a quiet but annoying and unnecessary noise probably from the power train moving on its compliant mountings. Though no one else on the Fabia MK3, Ibiza 6J and Polo 6C forums are reporting this!

Just a shame no one is reporting this. This should be a major issues and VW, Skoda . Seat should fix this. German engineering, yeah right. A tractor is making clonking sound when shifting not a brand new car.

 

I know it's always: a characteristic of a car. What a load of rubish. All of us who have issues like these should report it let them fix it. 

 

I have payed 14.000 eur for a clonky brand new car. The dealership just ignores this

 

It's Skoda Slovenija ( Verovskova ) BTW. The sales manager, the repair manager are just a laugh. Simply trick bussinesman who do not care about the happines of the customers. Just money, money. 

 

It is time to jump ship to another brand. But first getting my money back

[duplisak]

On 13. 6. 2018 at 13:07, ettlz said:

 

I have somewhere. Trouble is most drivers don't care about smoothness or are insensitive to it anyway.

 

This 1.2 TSI 110 has one of the more backlashy/shifty drivetrains I've driven. Already had a gearbox side mount replaced for clonking, but the noises, vibrations, minor thuds switching between accelerating and decelerating, and general feeling something's moving around that ought not are back.

 

Personally I suspect the dogbone. Convincing a tech that this is a problem and it should be smoother is another issue.

 

@rum4mo: I tried the following as an experiment.

1. Put the handbrake on, stick it in reverse, then bring the clutch up momentarily to bite as if moving off.

2. Put it in first, and bring the clutch up briefly as if moving off again. Is there a slight thump felt throughout the car?

3. Repeat (in first). If it's smooth this time, I reckon the engine/gearbox lump has shifted and the mounts haven't damped it nicely.

 

They have replaced all 3 motor mounts. I have not seen the old mounts so I can not say for sure they replaced them. But one thing is for sure. It clonks like hell. It's a horiblle sound. I am sure it's the drive train. The whole engine moves when slightly accelrating or getting off the gas.

 

Engine feels jumpy. So I am 100% sure it something to do with the weak engine mounts.

 

As far as clonk sounds go It is something wrong with the drivetrain or CV joint. I clonks when letting the clutch out in 1,2,3 and 4 gear. No other 1.0 engine ( renault, Citroen ) does that. How come. This is where VW engineers blew it. And I hope they recall all the models and fix this. Otherwise a lot of people will have to pay after 2 years after the warranty when parts really get worn out and broken.

 

 

[duplisak]

On 13. 6. 2018 at 18:45, rum4mo said:

I am away with my own car for a couple of days, but I did try part of that without hearing anything.

I wonder if it is even the top gearbox mounting? Either way I was hoping that eventually there would be a “parts” revision and I’d just buy newer version and fit it to avoid the painful toing and froing  from the dealer!

I’ve already fitted a “bridging clap” to the fuel supply line and the small coolant return pipe to stop the fuel line knocking/chaffing against the A/C discharge pipe, that works okay, and the other day removed the air inlet plastic part that rattled against the front panel, stuck Velcro round the top and sides and refitted that - that also quietened things down at idle!

 

Can you explain how did you do that. Maybe some pictures where did you aply this fix. And where did you get these parts

[rum4mo]

I should have written "bridging clamp" not "bridging clap" - anyway none of that has changed the noises that the car makes when going "ON" and "OFF" throttle or running over uneven surfaces - now normally that car makes less of these noises when it is cold and the weather is cooler, I just can't rely on it making these noises "properly" if or when I take it into my VW dealer.

[ettlz]

15 hours ago, rum4mo said:

I should have written "bridging clamp" not "bridging clap" - anyway none of that has changed the noises that the car makes when going "ON" and "OFF" throttle or running over uneven surfaces - now normally that car makes less of these noises when it is cold and the weather is cooler, I just can't rely on it making these noises "properly" if or when I take it into my VW dealer.

 

Does it feel jolty when going between on and off accelerator? (In itself hard to judge because of the awful gas pedal with soft spring and 5% dead zone.) I can feel it on mine even up to 20mph in 3rd gear, but  can't tell if it's a jolt in the drive, or the engine being thrown around. If I do the 'biting point test' (the one with the handbrake I described earlier) I don't see any jerks in the wheels.

Edited 24 June, 2018 by ettlz

[duplisak]

If feels jolty and jumpy. You can fe the whole engine jump back and forth

 

I will buy the powerflex thingy and I am sure it will sort things out.

 

But first let the skoda repair center deal with the problem. Beacuse we all know they will come to a conclusion "its a characteristic". What a load of ....

 

[ettlz]

34 minutes ago, duplisak said:

Beacuse we all know they will come to a conclusion "its a characteristic". What a load of ....

 

 

I go by the principle: 'If it's not documented in the manual, it's not a characteristic.'

 

Come on VAG, some of us have backgrounds in engineering and the physical sciences...

[rum4mo]

I'm not sure if I would call it "jolty" - though some others, maybe one or either of you guys have mentioned that the 1.2TSI 110PS (with 6 speed gearbox?) is the worst powertrain that they have ever had in a car, with transmission shunt etc - I only notice that sometimes mainly when moving a short distance then stopping then needing to move again, like in a queue.

The noises that I am mainly "attacking" right now are what is only a noise and with a slight "feeling" transmitted into the cabin, I might get the front up on ramps today to see what I can find.

[rum4mo]

Well I've had the August 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 110PS 6 speed manual gearbox up on ramps, front only, and found the following:- LHS (lower) TCA rear bush is split, so as that should be an MOT failure I'll attempt to get VW to replace that under warranty.  ARB drop links, the LHS one offers less resistance to rotating the link, that in itself is not an issue, but it might indicate that the end joint(s) are worn so maybe making a noise or close to making a noise, I don't think that I'd get anywhere complaining about that right now, I'll expect that I will buy some heavy duty links and fit them - or temporarily fit the links that I bought for my daughter's late 2009 Ibiza when I changed the springs and dampers etc - I only bought these new drop links in case I had to chop off the old ones which I did not need to do. Only other issue is the gear shift cables, I'm not convinced that they are not contributing to noises as noises seem worse when the car has heated up - and these cables disappear under the exhaust heat shield, I might mention that to VW to see what they think. Enough for now maybe.

[duplisak]

1 hour ago, rum4mo said:

Well I've had the August 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 110PS 6 speed manual gearbox up on ramps, front only, and found the following:- LHS (lower) TCA rear bush is split, so as that should be an MOT failure I'll attempt to get VW to replace that under warranty.  ARB drop links, the LHS one offers less resistance to rotating the link, that in itself is not an issue, but it might indicate that the end joint(s) are worn so maybe making a noise or close to making a noise, I don't think that I'd get anywhere complaining about that right now, I'll expect that I will buy some heavy duty links and fit them - or temporarily fit the links that I bought for my daughter's late 2009 Ibiza when I changed the springs and dampers etc - I only bought these new drop links in case I had to chop off the old ones which I did not need to do. Only other issue is the gear shift cables, I'm not convinced that they are not contributing to noises as noises seem worse when the car has heated up - and these cables disappear under the exhaust heat shield, I might mention that to VW to see what they think. Enough for now maybe.

 

Thank you. I think you are on to something here. It seems VW is ignoring things like this. For me this is alarming.

 

My Fabia is 4 months old and it is making knocking noises. Just dissapointed all the way. Never again VW, Skoda, Seat.

[rum4mo]

On ‎13‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 07:32, duplisak said:

Can not seem to find the right part. no skoda parts here. Just VW

 

I can't think of why that will be a problem as Audi/VW/SEAT/Skoda do share parts and they will, in this case be the say part number, so no problem, it will only be "Skoda Fabia MK3 specific parts" that will be Skoda parts, anyway quite a lot of these parts have been carried over from earlier models and the first versions of Fabia were Skoda sourced parts and these parts ended up being used on VW Polo and SEAT Ibiza.

 

My wife's Polo is now booked into the VW dealer for 10:00 next Monday, so I will find out what happens to it then, I did report the split RHS (lower) TCA rear mounting bush as being split and needing replacing - also clunking noises when on the move at fixed speeds, ie not accelerating on slightly uneven surfaces and when crossing ramped sections of road. Now how much of that will get correctly passed onto the Tech working on this car I can't say as the "customer to service tech interpreter" - the service receptionist, did not seem to have learned too many car types of words! Oh bother bother!

[duplisak]

On 13. 6. 2018 at 08:03, krigl said:

I susspect, that mk2 and mk3 inserts are the same. Go to oemepc.com and search for part no of mk2 and part no of mk3 dogbone mount, if it is the same number. 

 

Found it. But it does not show where the bottom engine mount is

 

http://www.oemepc.com/skoda/part_single/catalog/sk/markt/CZ/modell/FAB/year/2016/drive_standart/797/hg_ug/199/subcategory/199025/part_id/2538516/lang/e

[rum4mo]

I found it in another VW Group parts listing under a topic "assembly carrier" .

 

Edit:- which is also in your listing one section above "mounting parts" that you gave the link to.

Edited 25 June, 2018 by rum4mo

[duplisak]

22 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

I found it in another VW Group parts listing under a topic "assembly carrier" .

 

Edit:- which is also in your listing one section above "mounting parts" that you gave the link to.

 

I will add this since all my 3 engine mounts have been raplaced.

 

https://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-series/product-details/Lower+Engine+Mount+Large+Bush/2065.html

 

I read a lot of reviews it stops the wheel hop and the engine rocking. Still the clonk remains. Got to do with something hitting the firewall or some other bushes are loose.