Have I just seen a pretty good VRs substitute? The new Suzuki Swift Sport....WOW!

[GeneralPurpose]

As the title says, had a good look at the Suzuki Swift Sport 1.4 Turbo. What an amazing car. Yes, a bit pricey but it is a lot of car and  you do get a lot of kit, and a 7.9 sec 0-60 dash! Plus, there is "0%" finance on them at the mo with thousands of pounds knocked off the price, it's launched just this weekend and it's for a very limited time that you can save all that dosh. Ok, so the Vrs was a bit faster on the dash, but was it as refined?  I drove the Swift Sport and I have to say it was truly a great experience, quiet and refined at normal speeds and very smooth. The ride was great over rough roads but still firm on corners. Driving position was great with everything adjustable. Instrumentation was about as good as it gets with so much tech that it would take me an A4 page of text to tell you about it, but it was useful stuff. Not sure how Suzuki has done it but the interior space is huge both in the front and back. Boot is only Fiesta size at 265ltrs but still ok for most. Fit and finish of the car was beyond reproach, and engine...well, that engine was something else. The power delivery was way more exciting that many other so called sport motors. A big step up in power at 2500rpm!  Top speed which is largely irrelavent to me is 130mph and 140ps from the engine! The gearbox was very nice to use with a short throw gearlever. They do an auto 6spd but it's not yet over here. Not sure if it's being imported at the moment the dealer said. The car rides on 17" alloys which looked incredible. Suzuki make much of the lightness of the car, but also it's structural strength and stiffness. I could not fault that side of things...torsional stiffness was unaffected by driving over undulating roads and driving slowly over rough badly undulating ground, no creaking or rattles, just everything very solid and confidence inspiring. Don't know what fuel economy will work out to as only drove it 10 miles but it was registering 48mpg on the dash. You Vrs boys might like to take a look. Suzuki has really raised it's game much further over the already amazing Swift of before. It's a quality bit of kit. I did spend some time underneath it (me being me!) and it's well engineered and solid. Have any of you guys had one out for a spin yet? If so, please tell us about it!

 

    

Edited 1 July, 2018 by Estate Man

[Tim1631]

Horrendous 

[lawnmowerman]

25 minutes ago, Tim1631 said:

Horrendous 

 

One man's meat...........

 

Bill 

[skomaz]

I took delivery of it's little brother the other week - a 1.0 Boosterjet SZ5 SHVS Hyrbid and have to say it's a great little car!

[Leprejohn]

Where did you see the 0% finance deal? I'm looking at 5.9% for mine?

[GeneralPurpose]

0% only available for this launch weekend as far as I know at participating dealers. But I've been told other brilliant deals are on the way with good money off! I would add that when I compared it to the last of the Vrs twin charger engined cars it felt more refined with better midrange power (more torque than the twin charger)). And it's a bit bigger inside and out. I've just noticed some great YouTube videos from carwow, cartrader, autoexpress etc etc and they really rate the car. Just thinking I may buy one to run alongside the Fabia. It's a grown ups car with loads of fun, toys and power. Just wanting to know what other informed folks think about the car, particularly if you've driven one! It's inevitably going to be much more reliable than the Vrs twin chargers. Suzuki engines don't break.

Edited 1 July, 2018 by Estate Man

[GeneralPurpose]

7 hours ago, skomaz said:

I took delivery of it's little brother the other week - a 1.0 Boosterjet SZ5 SHVS Hyrbid and have to say it's a great little car!

Yes, I someone with that exact model. It's brilliant!

[teraja]

Is it 4x4? That's something Suzuki does great and IMO the only reason for even considering getting a Suzuki...

 

I've driven a lot with the new Vitara and while it's an ok car to drive (with the 1.4 Boosterjet engine), I've only ever seen as much cheap plastics inside a Dacia (in case Dacia's not in GB, that's the cheap Romanian built subsidiary of Renault).

 

I think the design of the Swift Sport is just bad and sort of a failure. It just can't take it seriously as a "sporty small hatch" - to me it's just another car with a "GTI-pack" checked when ordering. I think the last generation Swift was way better looking car.

 

Sorry for my negativity I'm just being honest.

[Defenderben]

I have to agree with above, the old model Swift was better looking.

 

I have sat in a couple of Suzuki's and also agree on the cheap plastics, having said this, that was old model again so they may have improved the plastics on new models.

[Ootohere]

Even before a Turbo fitted the Suzuki Swift Sport with 134 ps or so was recognised rightly as a 'Warm Hatch'  that could hold its own with Hot Hatches, 

cars with all the gear, soft plastics and crap handling and no better at getting from point A to B on UK roads with 60 mph NSL's.

 

The new Swift Sport is not just Show without enough go for UK Roads.

Like the Dacia's in the UK are pretty perfect for UK roads that can be no better than Eastern or Central European ones.

 

The Renault Clio RS Trophy gives a Warm / Hot Hatch for much cheapness and 2 pedals for those that need or want that.

Even the VW Polo GTI looks good value and is, be it a slightly used 1.8 TSI or a 2.0TSI, 

actually costing less than a 1.4 TSI GTI was new 7 years ago.

A Suzuki Swift Sport if paying the RRP is pretty expensive, but then if buying as a keeper might be a real bargain.

(I still have a 1999 & 2003 Jimny and am looking forward to being able to get a New Jimny when available.)

Even a Suzuki Ignis with not much power is a fun drive IMO, and can be pinned into corners.  Just a same that you can not get 2 pedals as AWD.

[GeneralPurpose]

I think you've just hit the nail on the head Offski. Suzies are fun to drive, all of them! I've had quite a lot to do with Suzuki's over the years, mostly on the motorcycle side of things, which is a separate entity to the car division. But the same ethos goes through the entire company of making everything solidly built and fun to drive and ride. They know a thing or two about designing and building engines and quality control is about as good as it gets. 

 

 

4 hours ago, teraja said:

Is it 4x4? That's something Suzuki does great and IMO the only reason for even considering getting a Suzuki...

 

I've driven a lot with the new Vitara and while it's an ok car to drive (with the 1.4 Boosterjet engine), I've only ever seen as much cheap plastics inside a Dacia (in case Dacia's not in GB, that's the cheap Romanian built subsidiary of Renault).

 

I think the design of the Swift Sport is just bad and sort of a failure. It just can't take it seriously as a "sporty small hatch" - to me it's just another car with a "GTI-pack" checked when ordering. I think the last generation Swift was way better looking car.

 

Sorry for my negativity I'm just being honest.

 

No the sport is not 4X4 but the Swift is available as a 4X4 and it's pretty good. Don't be sorry about any negativity...it's your view and I respect that! Although I'd say the 1.4 turbo sport is not just wearing a GTI add on pack. It's a bit more than that. Interestingly, if comparing it to the new 2018 totally new Dacia Duster, it is quite a compliment. My sister has just junked here Fabia Estate for the new Dacia 4X4. Frankly, that too is an amazing car at £16,400 with all the kit. She lives in the country and goes off road quite a lot these days because of where she lives and the land she owns, it's necessary. She actually bought this latest version (below in the photo and in the video and same colour). it has soft plastics in key areas. sat nav as standard and a punchy 1.6 litre petrol engine with 120ps or thereabouts she said. It's quiet, smooth and refined. I've driven it just the once when going out to lunch, on road and was impressed. Couldn't look under the bonnet as no time but nicely finished inside and out. Take a look at the off road video...it's frankly totally unexpected and is the reason it's so popular with the offroad brigade. I'd add that the Dacia Duster is one of the most reliable motors on the road with good dealer support in Essex.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Defenderben said:

I have to agree with above, the old model Swift was better looking.

 

I have sat in a couple of Suzuki's and also agree on the cheap plastics, having said this, that was old model again so they may have improved the plastics on new models.

 

Try sitting in the new ones. Much better than they used to be. This latest Swift (all versions) is the 6th generation and is lighter by 10% and more powerful by 19% upwards depending on model. They put a lot into the build quality to make them tougher and lighter. Really well screwed together, and yes some hard plastics still but overall not much different to a Fabia in terms of quality I guess. The new ones are 40mm wider with longer wheelbase. Quite a few driving schools use them in and around my town and that's always a good sign, means they are tough little buggers!

Edited 2 July, 2018 by Estate Man

[teraja]

1 hour ago, Estate Man said:

No the sport is not 4X4 but the Swift is available as a 4X4 and it's pretty good. Don't be sorry about any negativity...it's your view and I respect that! Although I'd say the 1.4 turbo sport is not just wearing a GTI add on pack. It's a bit more than that. Interestingly, if comparing it to the new 2018 totally new Dacia Duster, it is quite a compliment. My sister has just junked here Fabia Estate for the new Dacia 4X4. Frankly, that too is an amazing car at £16,400 with all the kit. She lives in the country and goes off road quite a lot these days because of where she lives and the land she owns, it's necessary. She actually bought this latest version (below in the photo and in the video and same colour). it has soft plastics in key areas. sat nav as standard and a punchy 1.6 litre petrol engine with 120ps or thereabouts she said. It's quiet, smooth and refined. I've driven it just the once when going out to lunch, on road and was impressed. Couldn't look under the bonnet as no time but nicely finished inside and out. Take a look at the off road video...it's frankly totally unexpected and is the reason it's so popular with the offroad brigade. I'd add that the Dacia Duster is one of the most reliable motors on the road with good dealer support in Essex.

Yes, the new Duster is a lot more modern a car than the previous model and I have to admit I haven't tested it yet. And yes, the motors on them are highly reliable and considering the price they are clever cars indeed.

 

I have 100's of kilometers in the Sandero and Sandero Stepway (same size as Fabia) and they seemed to be right from the 1990's in every other way than motors, which are modern engines. For example the base model here in Finland doesn't even have A/C, front power windows, central locking, armrests in door panels etc. And with the first generation Duster there wasn't even wheels and tires included in the base price... But as said, they do take you from A to B and they are the cheapest cars you can get here  (Sandero Base 10500 euros incl. tax). Then again, the base Fabia 14000 euros so price difference is huge.

 

Back to Suzukis, you're right that they are fun to drive, at least the 4X4 ones. A friend of mine had a white 4X4 Swift of the previous model. She had it lowered a bit and windows tinted and added powder pink 17" wheels - the car was really fun to drive and extremely cool looking.

 

Offski mentioned Jimnys, I've had my kilometers with them while vacationing in the Greek Isles where they have had them as rentals for ages. Fun cars and perfect to drive up and down the hills and mountains of for example Crete.

[skomaz]

I've had my SZ5 for about 3 weeks now and have put just over 600 miles on the clock, so it's just about run in at 1,100 miles even though its just 12 months old (it was sat in a showroom for much of that).

 

I can understand the comments re the looks as I personally can't quite reconcile myself to the Sport.  The front bumper and grill is not quite right for me - but then neither is the standard car with the horizontal 'toaster' grille - the 'sport' grille on the standard cars nose looks much better than both IMHO (and is what I have).  The looks are certainly a grower and it is better in some colours than others.

 

I can also understand some of the comments re the plastics inside and that was a concern to me initially but, in all honesty, how many times when driving do you sit there 'prodding' the dashboard to check whether it is a soft touch?  The harder plastics, whilst not as high quality to touch are certainly robust and the whole thing is extremely well screwed together.  There is no rattling of any sort from it and no droning either, even on Sheffield's hugely potholed roads that send shudders through most cars.

 

Space-wise the car is excellent - the Swift is replacing an 8th Gen Civic and, whilst slightly narrower, feels equally as spacious in the front and back, partly due to it's relatively low scuttle and good legroom.  I've had 5 in it without complaint.

 

I terms of the technology - it all just works!  The radar cruise is brilliant (although it took some initial trusting on my part) and the lane departure warning is unobtrusive but worthy.  About the only thing that I have noticed thus far is the dual sensor brake control, which appears to err on the side of caution and can flag a warning when not needed (eg when weaving among parked cars in an urban environment with speed  bumps etc.) but I'd rather it were that way than any other.  The LED headlights and auto-high-beam are great and work well and the infotainment / sat-nav / radio is good, made by Bosch and has a good sound quality and is easy to use.

 

With regard to ride it really does ride well and this backs up my understanding that the suspension set-up was developed on and for UK roads.  It isn't harsh, potholes simply being dismissed with a dull thud, but is controlled with good rebound and damping.  The handling also seems a good compromise - it is very agile and the overwhelming impression is one of lightness and nimbleness (much like my Mk 1 MX5).  There is some initial body lean but after that it clings on well and gives good feedback.

 

The engine is an absolute gem - it's only a 3 pot but there is little discernible turbo lag and power and torque comes in well, with the ISG hybrid element plumping the torque up at low revs nicely.  It's also so well integrated you only really know it's there by looking at the dash display.  It is also much more punchy and quicker than the reported figures and everyone who has been in it has been impressed with the performance from 998cc.  Mid range pull for overtaking is great for such a small engine and, if needed, it can apparently be mapped to around 135bhp.  Current MPG over 600 miles of mostly stop start town stuff with a longer 40 mile or so trips is hovering around an indicated 53mpg - 54mpg.

 

The controls are also very even and, whilst light, are well weighted and matched.  I got back in the Civic yesterday for a drive around the block and the Swift really is light years ahead!

 

So overall I think the package I have is superb - a feeling echoed by everyone that has been in it!  if the Sport can better things further then it'll be a cracking drive, although I agree maybe not to everyone's taste if they are looking for squishy plastics and a number / heavier drive.

Edited 2 July, 2018 by skomaz

[GeneralPurpose]

45 minutes ago, teraja said:

Yes, the new Duster is a lot more modern a car than the previous model and I have to admit I haven't tested it yet. And yes, the motors on them are highly reliable and considering the price they are clever cars indeed.

 

I have 100's of kilometers in the Sandero and Sandero Stepway (same size as Fabia) and they seemed to be right from the 1990's in every other way than motors, which are modern engines. For example the base model here in Finland doesn't even have A/C, front power windows, central locking, armrests in door panels etc. And with the first generation Duster there wasn't even wheels and tires included in the base price... But as said, they do take you from A to B and they are the cheapest cars you can get here  (Sandero Base 10500 euros incl. tax). Then again, the base Fabia 14000 euros so price difference is huge.

 

Back to Suzukis, you're right that they are fun to drive, at least the 4X4 ones. A friend of mine had a white 4X4 Swift of the previous model. She had it lowered a bit and windows tinted and added powder pink 17" wheels - the car was really fun to drive and extremely cool looking.

 

Offski mentioned Jimnys, I've had my kilometers with them while vacationing in the Greek Isles where they have had them as rentals for ages. Fun cars and perfect to drive up and down the hills and mountains of for example Crete.

 

Thanks for the comments teraja, much appreciated. 

[GeneralPurpose]

skomaz, very useful insight into the Swift generally. Thank you. I've known a local driving instructor who has been using Swifts for about 10 years now. She has not had a single problem with any of them. And she is covering 20K miles per year on average. And yes, she finds it really fun to drive. Just like I did. I like the look of your Swift in red by the way and your comments concurr reference lack of creaking etc with what others who have the new Swift have told me. Again, thanks!

[Gerrycan]

Suzuki were going to use the VW range of small turbo engines in their cars but negotiations fell over with a lot of ill feeling being expressed by Suzuki although I am not sure what the exact reasons were.

Anyway Suzuki went ahead and developed their own engine range with the 'boosterjet' title so the similarities to the VW engines in terms of configurations and power outputs are probably not surprising.

With the extreme lightness of the car and an efficient engine it would be interesting to see what sort of economy returns could be achieved in the right hands. Might be able to break the 99mpg record set by the Peugeot 308 1.2tsi (3 cylinder). The Suzuki is over 200kg lighter.

I don't mind that Suzuki are using a bit more plastic in the interior than their competitors as they are achieving real weight savings.

[Ootohere]

WV Bought into Suzuki to get the Suzuki knowledge on small capacity engines, turbos, electric superchargers that Suzuki & Fiat had.

Light hubrid technology that Suzuki, Fiat, GM have in production and VW struggled with a they were building Diesels with Electric Superchargers in Hungary for Audi.   Suzuki build in Hungary, and Hungary build lots of electronics for many manufacturers not just VW Group.

 

Suzuki got back the last of their shares the night before the VW Emissions scandal broke in September 2015.

Not so sure Suzuki were going to use VW Engines, they knew they were cheating,  VW took the huff at Suzuki and Fiat doing the deal.

 

Did Toyota lend Suzuki the money to do the after hours trade that put up the value of Suzuki & Toyota as VW's bombed?

Suzuki & Toyota and others use the same gearboxes for some applications. 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34275917 

Edited 2 July, 2018 by Offski

[Gerrycan]

29 minutes ago, Offski said:

WV Bought into Suzuki to get the Suzuki knowledge on small capacity engines, turbos, electric superchargers that Suzuki & Fiat had.

 

Not according to my Googling.

Suzuki initially welcomed the VW deal (2009) because they were to have access to VW small car engine and turbo technology. That access was never forthcoming and Suzuki interpreted it (probably correctly) as a ploy to access Suzuki's stranglehold on the Indian market.

The ill-fated liaison  fell through in 2011 and it took Suzuki 6 years to put the boosterjet engines into production so there is little evidence that Suzuki were ahead in any relevant technology.

 

[Ootohere]

Maybe forget boosterjet engines they were available if they wanted sooner, as were 'light hybrids',

Suzuki & Yamaha (Ford) had 2, 3 & 4 cylinder engines, and Fiat had 2 Cylinder small turbos. Twinairs.

 

600cc Turbo engines from Suzuki as Chaterham used instead of a Ford engine.

It took VW long enough to get back to 3 Cylinder Petrols with Turbos, and after messing up 4 cylinders with Duel Chargers. (Super / Turbo.)

 

 

As to 'Initially.'

 VW tries buying into many others R&D and knowledge and patents.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-14877009 

 

 

VW & JLR were doing a deal last year for Skoda / JLR's in India.  Tata / JLR are not stupid though.

 

CEO of VW USA 2007-2010 was Stefan Jacoby, VW man & boy (part of the family), and Mitsubishi, 

 then off to Geely in 2010 to head Volvo, then off to GM to be at the head.

 

Ford had bought Volvo in the past, VW wanted Volvo, never got it, got some Supercharger knowledge though. 

Vorsprung Durch Technik,  Technology costs money, and new technology costs lots, get someone elses!

 

Daihatsu were decades ahead of VW Group with small capacity turbo engines as well.

Small Turbo Charged engines have been built; 'long time mister'.

Small capacity engine quick cars were built by Skoda in the CZ, Motorsport Heritage & Success even pre VW.

 

Twin Cylinder petrol engines will commonly be in EV's as range extenders and in Hybrids in the future.

 

Volkswagen loses GTI battle with Suzuki - Fieldfisher.mhtml

Edited 2 July, 2018 by Offski

[skomaz]

6 hours ago, Estate Man said:

skomaz, very useful insight into the Swift generally. Thank you.

 

I like the look of your Swift in red by the way and your comments concurr reference lack of creaking etc with what others who have the new Swift have told me. Again, thanks!

 

Your welcome - and thanks for the comment - the photo doesn't really do the colour justice as it's more of a ruby red than an orange red - it's the Burning Red pearlescent metallic.

[Gerrycan]

9 hours ago, Offski said:

Maybe forget boosterjet engines they were available if they wanted 

@Offski Why forget the major factor in this thread? And the engines were not 'available' if they wanted because Suzuki patently did not have the technology at that time and far as I know did not enter any licensing arrangement with any other company.

Suzuki did buy some diesels from Fiat during the souring VW relationship (2009-2011) but not  the twin-air technology you refer to.

 

I'm under no illusion that VW are not any less predatory or opportunistic than any other major corporation and their 2009 purchase of Suzuki shares was purely for their own benefit, or that they preyed on Suzuki's then need for low boost turbo tech.

 

Consequently Suzuki are rather late to the game of offering competitive low boost engines, but I commend them for their achievement and their class leading weight reduction efforts.

 

Incidentally the twin air engine you refer to is not particularly good or efficient.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/green-motoring/2011-02/500-twinair-economy/

Pity you don't hold other manufacturers as accountable as you do in your now boringly constant barrage against the VW group

[Ootohere]

Suzuki was in a relationship with Fiat on developing engines before any licencing and purchasing over the diesels, Suzuki really having little interests in Diesels having used others before using Fiats. 

So PSA Peugeot-Citroen, Mazda, Renault....

I had Suzuki Vitaras & Grand Vitaras.

 

Simple point is Suzuki & others were doing small light 600 cc cars for a long time and small capacity turbos in light cars like 600 cc turbos and apart from a Lupo, & Fox / Polo type of car then VW Group were not into Water Cooled small engines with any reliability.

Only the Up!MiiCitigo was on offer with 1.0 litre N/A's then Turbos in some world regions and now those are rolled out across models.

Actually they still are not really proving reliability as a given, and the 1.2 TSI's are dropped, the 1.4 TSI' & 1.4 TDI's are dropped and it is now about 1.0 N/A & TSI's.

So now it will be petrols with GPF's and we will wait and see how good they are and if VW might put 5 year warranties on them if they have faith in their products.

 

Twin Air engines were not that efficient, but then to charge Battery Packs they might be the answer.

Lightness being important.  Vorsprung Durch Technik / eventually.   

Volvo / Geely got Super Chargers right, VW never bothered to.

VW / Audi put the effort into doing them with Diesels & built the engine plants in Hungary to build them.

 

Edited 3 July, 2018 by Offski

[OzFabia]

I quite like the Swift Sport, although it feels a bit too pricey in Oz at the moment. They're apparently quicker than claimed too. 0-100kph in 7.39 manual; 7.01 automatic.

 

http://performancedrive.com.au/2018-suzuki-swift-sport-review-manual-auto-video-3122/

 

[GeneralPurpose]

Interesting Oz, it felt very fast indeed and it has much more torque than the Vrs at certain points in the rev range.

Edited 3 July, 2018 by Estate Man

[GeneralPurpose]

Due to my links with Suzuki in the motorcycle world, I can tell you they were designing Turbo charged small engines a long time ago and very successfully. The tech was shared with it's car engineers too.  As it happened they didn't really take off in the motorcycle world, but not because they were not good. We just weren't readly for them.  However, there is about to be a big revolution in the motorcycle world with small turbo charged engines. Turbo technology is so good it almost makes superchargers redundant these days.  When working as an engine design and development engineer I worked on many small supercharged engines for bikes and cars and some turbo engines. But at the time I was doing so, turbo tech was not as good as it is now. Small single cylinder and twin cylinder bike engines are appearing in preproduction electric cars as donkeys. BMW is reputedley going to be using a twin cylinder scooter engine of 400cc capacity to enable the car to recharge and even run while doing so using the 400cc engine. They are extremely economical on fuel when used in this way.