Hi all, this is a general topic about speeding. 

Tomorrow I'm attending a speed awareness course as for the first time in my life I was caught speeding, 35 in a 30. 

 

I'm totally against speeding and always try to keep my speed well down

 

I fully accept I was speeding.

 

However, I do sometimes think that for a driver in unfamiliar territory it's almost impossible to be driving a legal speed right at the start of a lower speed zone e.g. from nat speed limit into a 30

 

One minute you're doing 55 in a 60 then suddenly you see the 30 sign in the distance maybe only a 100 yards away. 

 

To slow from 55 to 30 in 100 yards is not easy, eco friendly nor safe even, if the road surface is a bit slippery for example 

 

Take that scenario to also include reduced visibility and therefore later noticing of the 30 sign. 

Yes, in that 60 and driving to conditions, you might responsibly be doing this time only 40, but you, as that responsible driver, could still be driving illegally fast when entering the 30, but really not through your fault. 

 

I'm not aware of satnavs giving a speed limit countdowns but if they did I'd be the first to use one.

 

I also don't know how far into the limit zone the cameras are located. If in the middle then I do hold my hands up and say ok I was speeding as I did have time to slow. 

 

But sometimes I've seen mobile detector vans literally next to the limit sign, giving almost no time to knock speed off in the space between where the sign is first seen, and the actual sign.

 

A limit countdown would be much safer, fairer and eco friendly as cars would just coast down to the limit as opposed to being suddenly braked.

 

Anyone got thoughts on this?

 

 

Edited 16 July, 20187 yr by davembk
Grammar

It’s all about the money money money ,if you were carrying /using drugs or stealing  goods from shops neglegable fines or bound over ,SPEEDING =hundreds of pounds fines + points + higher insurance  ,motorist are cash cows,yes they are breaking the law but the fines are out of proportion, I think.

Edited 16 July, 20187 yr by Sad555

Speed Awareness course gets you no fine & maybe no insurance increase in England, no idea about Wales.

Cheaper option than in Scotland then if just above the speed limit and caught & prosecuted or you accept the offence.

Yes I agree it is. 

 

How can I a responsible extremely safely aware person who loathes everything about speeding, sit there tomorrow, humbled, contrite and regretful over one lapse in a lifetime, into the mildest of red zones ever, while the career speed violators who actively study the bits of road where they can become all but airborne, can get away with blighting every one else's lives

 

That is not fair. 

Offski,

 

No problem with the course at all. 

 

Just the contrived traps set on our roads to catch habitual Non speeders. The one who have jobs, and who can be the cash cows the government needs 

Edited 16 July, 20187 yr by davembk
Grammar

1 minute ago, Offski said:

Speed Awareness course gets you no fine & maybe no insurance increase in England,

Unless you go fast enough to fall into 6 points territory when taking the "naughty boys" Speed Awareness course still gets you 3 points - as I found out in 2003.

Does the Government get the Speed Awareness money other than taxing or is it just the Companies running them, ex Police Chiefs etc?

 

davmbk, 

confused by the bit about people with jobs, do school attenders, unemployed and retired not also get penalised?

?

Does accepting the offer of attending a 'Speed Awareness Course' actually still get you 3 points?

 According to what shows with a Google that is not the case.

 

So Police Forces get an income and that will allow the Government to give less to the police while getting money from speeders.

Hard working individuals.   Ones with things on their minds and too busy to watch the speed limit, No lazy layabouts obviously.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35170779 

Edited 16 July, 20187 yr by Offski

The fines are now linked to people’s income so fines are now £200,£300,£400 £500 +.in lasts months local paper ranged from £200-800 and none were over 80 mph but I know of couple of people who have attended the awareness course in the last couple of months.

Edited 16 July, 20187 yr by Sad555

I did a Speed Awareness Course four years ago. It was really good.

i had to pay £80 for the course in lieu of a fixed penalty or court summons.

No points were put on my driving licence.

Fines on Speeders in Scotland could always be very high according to income or means.

 

Again England & Wales on the Sentencing and Fines is different from in Scotland.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38724301 

 

PS, 

had the convictions, fines and bans.  

Speed awareness now, keep my eyes open and fingers crossed.

Edited 16 July, 20187 yr by Offski

1 hour ago, Offski said:

Does the Government get the Speed Awareness money other than taxing or is it just the Companies running them, ex Police Chiefs etc?

 

davmbk, 

confused by the bit about people with jobs, do school attenders, unemployed and retired not also get penalised?

 

 

Ok, jobs....meaning a genetic description of people who are so axe to grindstone 9 to 5 that they just passively become the cash cows that the gov wants them to be. I.e. anyone who does not have the time nor energy to be anything else

 

1 hour ago, kevberlin said:

I did a Speed Awareness Course four years ago. It was really good.

i had to pay £80 for the course in lieu of a fixed penalty or court summons.

No points were put on my driving licence.

Yes, 

 

I know it will be good but it will be preaching to the converted. 

 

I've been paranoid all my driving life about not speeding, and about being responsible. 

 

But even those sort of people, or especially those sort of people who are not actively looking for camera free bits of road where they can deliberately speed, are the ones who are caught, for the reasons in my first post. 

 

And the potential killer drivers never get caught. Not that any course would do them any good. 

 

 

Dave. like my missus you dont routinely speed, but you both did the crime, you both got away with no fine and no points - win win 

 

(the fact that she got done again that week and got 3 points is incidental)

 

Speed traps are a fact of life, I got her a database so she is warned where they are.

 

Get a free app like CamerAlert and you will have more chance of not getting caught again.

Edited 16 July, 20187 yr by camelspyyder

Thanks camelspyder,

 

If it gives me that crucial extra 200 yards to just let the car coast down to the limit instead of having to brake in time, on spotting the sign then that's good. 

 

Just imagine a 50 down to 30 in heavy rain. 

 

You're doing a modest 40 in the 50, driving responsibly to the conditions. 

 

Then you see the 30 sign say, because of the rain, only 75 yards ahead. That doesn't mean visibility is only 75 yards otherwise you shouldn't be doing 40. However the task of driving involves more important actions than looking out for speed signs and hence 75 yards is a very likely distance. 

 

In order to slow to 30 in that 75 yards you need to brake quite hard. In rain, that's not a good thing, skid risk etc, but to be legal that's what you have to do. In reality you'll just touch brakes and probably still be doing 35 on passing the 30 sign and hence be breaking the law. In driving safely, what other option is there? 

 

Had there been countdown signs then it would have been a much safer not to say more intelligent way to alert drivers to speed limits

 

If satnavs had countdown warnings that would help too

 

It would help responsible drivers be even safer. 

Edited 16 July, 20187 yr by davembk
Spelling

Have a search on Twitter for your local 'safety camera partnership'. The one around here posts links to its database which lists where all their fixed sites are. They also generally post where their mobile cameras will be as well, usually where there is a major event on. 

 

Years ago I remember seeing signs on country 60 & 50 mph roads stating lower speed limit (usually 40 or 30mph) in 300 Yards, then another stating 200, then 100 yards, normally accompanied with the appropriate number of rumble strips on the road, 3 for 300 yards, two for 200 yards, and so on. 

 

I haven't seen them in years, probably about the time speed cameras started to be introduced. 

 

TomTom satnavs allow you to set a predetermined distance to a speed camera. 

 

When my daily commute was Glasgow to Edinburgh, I used Speed Camera and Traffic by Sygic, which was pretty useful. 

Edited 16 July, 20187 yr by Guest
Further info added

Could this be where all the speeding fine money goes

 

Edited 17 July, 20187 yr by Sad555

Also noticed that somebody involved in robberies and driving away at 160 MPH received a 9 year prison sentence and a 4yr driving ban which will obviously end a year before their release,so no fine or speed awareness course.

Edited 17 July, 20187 yr by Sad555

This is about villages getting new 40 mph buffer zones before the 30 mph limit in the village, but there have been many other villages in Angus that have had these for years now.

There was a thread with pictures of ones years back when i got a fine when 2 officers caught me with a speed gun in Wellbank as i rounded a bend into the 30 mph limit.

Funnily i was looking up the brae at them safe in the knowledge i was below the speed limit.   I believed the speed shown was one they got on the skip lorry that was up the road before me going into the Land Fill site, but which they said was my speed....  Got to love these guys when they had to issue enough tickets per shift.

http://eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/new-speed-limit-buffer-zones-on-edge-of-dundee-welcomed 

Dundee speed cameras generate nearly £900,000 in one year - The Scotsman.mhtml

Edited 17 July, 20187 yr by Offski

We have a fixed camera at the bottom of the hill as you EXIT the 30mph limit in the village, so you could have been doing 40.50 .60 thro the village (no cameras)it’s about 300m before entering the 50mph zone and guess what because motorists WERE slowing down and then letting their speed build up to the 50 limit THEY use mobile (agents)speed cameras in between the two limits.

Edited 17 July, 20187 yr by Sad555

60mph = 26.67m/s. This means you have just under 4s to react and brake if you actually "only see the 30mph limit when 100m away". Allow 1s for reaction time and you have 3s and 73 to brake in. You require to lose 13.5m/s in this distance/time, which gives a linear braking rate of 4.5m/s^2, or slightly under 0.5g. Yes, that's firm braking but far from unsafe.

 

Perhaps the OP should consider improving their hazard perception?

12 hours ago, davembk said:

Yes, 

 

I know it will be good but it will be preaching to the converted. 

 

I've been paranoid all my driving life about not speeding, and about being responsible. 

 

But even those sort of people, or especially those sort of people who are not actively looking for camera free bits of road where they can deliberately speed, are the ones who are caught, for the reasons in my first post. 

 

And the potential killer drivers never get caught. Not that any course would do them any good. 

 

 

I understand your view. I used to seek to drive to speed limits and was always looking for signage and so forth.

The course simply gave me the added incentive, you might say, to follow speed limits and ignore the perceived attempts of other drivers to make me go faster than the specific limit. It also allowed me to understand why we have so many 30mph limits and the significant difference for victims of being hit by a vehicle at 30 rather than 40mph.

The fact is that all drivers are potential killers and so many do get caught

Courses may not change the behaviour of all drivers but it will change some.

 

.

 

 

14 hours ago, Offski said:

?

Does accepting the offer of attending a 'Speed Awareness Course' actually still get you 3 points?

 According to what shows with a Google that is not the case.

There are (or at least were in 2003 when I was offered the "bad boy" course by Thames Valley Police) two grades of speed awareness course:

 

- the normal one for people caught only going slightly over the limit which is alternative to any points and you only pay for the course.

 

- the "bad boy" one for people caught doing more over the limit (but not enough to be considered for a ban) where taking the speed awareness course will reduce the points from 6 to 3 so you pay for the course AND pay a fine. This course is/was in two parts - a theory section in the classroom followed by a driving session with an instructor.

Like Offski I got done for speeding up here in scotland (Officers just around a slight bend of course),the road signs etc at that time must have been to the absolute minimum legal requirement LOL - I honestly thought I was already out of the 30 limit for the village we had just driven through.I was gutted - like the OP I am not a habitual speeder but occasionally do get caught out by illogical speed limits/speed limit changes or sometimes being distracted by traffic etc (especially on unfamiliar roads).

No possibility of a speed awareness course up here - so it was take licence into the Sherriffs Office and be stamped as a bad boy,it was only a SP30 fine which did not seem to bother the insurance company.

Personally I think if one has a previous clean licence (I had a clean licence from 1971 until 2015) then the first offence should be a written warning (if classified as a minor speeding offence).

^^^ 

You are lucky. 

I was loaded each time i had a speeding offence on each insurance policy, except the last one i had where one insurer only charged to change one policy and not 3.

 

IMO it is against Natural Justice that while 'the law / court', penalise you with a fine and points, Insurance charges a person with one vehicle extra for the offence, 

and say another has a Motorbike, Van & several cars they can be penalised on each and every vehicles policy or change to the policy.

Especially if you think about it, you are only ever driving one vehicle at a time.

 

PS

I reported the Speed Camera Partnership that was speeding between Gleneagles junction and Dunning junction before the Average Speed Camaras were on. Actually tailgating me when i was in the inside lane at 70 mph and then overtaking when the outside lane cleared and heading off at the speed of the other cars doing over 70mph.

 

When i talked to the person in charge she seemed to know nothing about the Speed Limit of other of their Vans going between park ups.

They had no tracker or Tacho.

When the Inspector in charge called me the excuse was it was a delivery driver or mechanic roadtesting the van.

I asked if on the other roads that were not the A9 was it also delivery drivers going between the points where they were advertised for being at that week and exceeding the NSL for their type of vehicle.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/324438-overtaking-police-cars-on-uk-motorways/?page=2 

 

Edited 17 July, 20187 yr by Offski