Skoda petrol consumption poor

[Morgana]

Just taken my Roomster to the garage. They cannot find a fault on the system... but my petrol consumption has doubled!  

 

Nothing showing on the dash. No warning symbols or anything. 

 

I went on a trip £120 miles and filled up with petrol before I went. When I came home, I had used half a tank. Previous identical trip (and towing a small caravan at that!) hardly used any at all, maybe one bar from full on previous occasions. This time I went (not towing the caravan either!) half the tank gone. 

 

Wondering if it's stuck in Sports mode or something? Has anyone come across this before? 4WD stuck on?  

 

Thanks for any replies.  

Edited 17 September, 2018 by Morgana

[xman]

A doubling in consumption would either see very poor engine running or smell of petrol (leak) assuming drive pattern/style hasn't changed significantly.

 

Are you sure the tank was actually filled fully? Sometimes a station fuel nozzles click off early due to foam or splash back when filling. The fuel gauge shows full even though its several litres short.

 

Refill your tank carefully (stop at the first click) and check the figures by hand. Don't rely on the fuel gauge, they are unreliable in mid range accuracy. Ideally, do the exercise again next time you fill.

 

Check your tank for leaks. Iirc there was a recent thread where a small hole was drilled in a Roomster tank to steal fuel, and bunged.

 

 

[SurreyJohn]

I think if you got £120 worth of petrol in a roomster, then the dispensing pump was faulty, or fuel is leaking, that's about double what it should hold

 

If it is in sports mode, will hold the gears and not use top gear, but unlikely to double consumption

 

Likely to be a leak,  could be anywhere from a tank-pipe connector to the injector,   to eliminate the obvious get a roll of something like wallpaper lining paper, roll it out below the car,  start it up, give it couple of bursts on accelerator, then stop and analyse for any signs of drips (or spray from knick in a pipe).   Note petrol will vapourise if the spray is very fine.  Going to be a bit of a sleuthing process to identify the part

[xman]

She meant 120 miles.....

[Morgana]

Thanks for your speedy reply, SurreyJohn. Sorry for the typo, I went 120 miles and filled the tank almost full before setting off.  

[xman]

What is almost full?

 

Also check no one else has been driving without your knowledge...

Edited 17 September, 2018 by xman

[Morgana]

Thanks for the advice, Xman. 

 

No-one driving without my knowledge! 

 

The car had about a quarter of a tank, I put in another £40-worth, which took the fuel gauge nearly up to the top. Even after the trip, on previous occasions, identical journey, there has been around 3/4 of a tank left... and down below half this time. Used to be very good on fuel. 

 

I have been suspecting the fuel consumption has been high for a while, as I always seem to be getting low, and more quickly than I should have... but having done an awful lot of short journeys (running up and down to two elderly parents as a carer), I thought it was just that. Not so, it seems. It is using more than double. The garage has checked for leaks, checked brakes, checked a few other things as well, and with no result. :(

 

Edited 17 September, 2018 by Morgana

[Robjon]

On neither of my Roomsters did the fuel gauge give an accurate indication of the amount of fuel in the tank.  The fuel gauge on my Yeti is even worse.  When the low fuel light illuminates, I can reverse the car up my steep drive and on the following day find the fuel gauge indicating one-quarter full.  Fuel gauges tend to be little more than guides and the only way to check fuel consumption accurately is by using the brim-to-brim method and to ignore the fuel gauge completely. 

 

Incidentally, 4WD was never an option on a Roomster

Edited 17 September, 2018 by Robjon

[xman]

You need real figures, not "almost full”.

 

I think you'll find if you fill the tank until the petrol nozzle clicks off (often called brimming the tank), your car will go 50 or even 100 miles before the fuel gauge starts to move off full.  And then it starts dropping like a brick. So you are not knowing exactly how much fuel its using (in miles per gallon), just guessing. Accurate measurement involves careful technique.

 

Short trips, less than a mile or two use much more fuel if the engine is constantly cold and not allowed to warm up.  If you've done an awful lot (whatever than means), that may be the answer. Idling long periods also hits your perceived economy with petrol engines

Edited 17 September, 2018 by xman

[Ootohere]

Maybe best the car did go into a garage. when was it Serviced, Plugs, Air Filter, Tyre Pressures set etc?

 

With a full tank or until the petrol pump shuts off how many miles can be driven then how many litres it takes to fill again is what matters.

Only figures that matter to show how many miles you get from the litres of fuel used. 

Edited 17 September, 2018 by Offski

[Robjon]

Morgana's Roomster is a Tiptronic, which I believe to be a slushbox - so not especially economical anyway.  Manufacturer's stated fuel consumption is 27.2mpg for urban use (extra urban 45.6mpg) so lots of short journeys will have a considerable effect on fuel consumption.

[Ootohere]

I spotted what it was.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/248381-automatic-roomster

 

[Morgana]

Hi and thanks for all the replies!   So i'm currently doing what Xman suggests, and have been and  filled my car up to the click.. Ummm, £45 ouch!  I put £40 in last Saturday!

 

Anyway, it's filled to the full up click. I will drive it around for a bit (Is a 14-mile journey enough?) and then will go back and fill it up again to the click, and see how much fuel goes in back up to the full mark - is that the right way to do this? 

 

I don't think my fuel gauge is that accurate either - however, I know I'm using a lot more petrol than I normally would, and not going anywhere different. It's not cold weather, the tyre pressures and all that have been checked. I know the price of petrol is ridiculous ATM, but I've noticed I'm putting a lot more in the tank, and running low a lot sooner, and have been for quite a while. The long journey on Sat tipped me off on this, but I already suspected it.  

 

I will update you on the topic when I have the true mpg figures. It should be doing at least 45mpg (on a longish run, unladen, two people) as that's what it was doing before this latest problem. I reckon it's doing around 25-30mpg at the most right now. 

Edited 17 September, 2018 by Morgana

[Ootohere]

No a 14 mile journey is not enough.  But 25-30 miles for 4.546 litres sounds right from a cold starts, 2 x 14 miles or less miles.

My diesel car can do 45-near 60 mpg.  but if used for a few days doing just a few miles hardly 25 miles for a gallon.

 

The car is not at an efficient oil temp until near that 14 miles, then the MPG will improve over a journey.

If that 14 miles is the length of journeys then expect a high fuel consumption.

After about 100 miles of however you use the car or more fill it up.

 

Or leave it for a few hundred miles.

 

Petrol price has nothing to do with MPG or miles per litre.  What was the amount of litres you got for £45?

 

Hopefully Air Filter checked, and spark plugs and even the coils.

When was the air filter checked or changed or spark plugs?

Edited 17 September, 2018 by Offski

[xman]

You need to drive at least a couple of hundred miles really. That reduces the possibility of error, slight difference in fill click off point etc.

 

You did make sure you zeroed the trip meter? To keep an accurate log of miles, many a time I forget about journeys I've done and think I've used too much fuel....

[Morgana]

Hi and thank you both for your advice. So a long trip it is then!  

 

The fuel I filled up with was Shell, at £1.289 per litre. 35.06 litres to the click.  I have set the trip to zero. 

 

Offski, I had a full winter service done at the end of last November, when I assume everything you mention was changed or checked. The garage I took it to yesterday also took it for a run and checked the gear changes, etc, and the running gear. Also checked the engine. Said it was obvious that it had been serviced recently!  Well, not that recently, actually! 

 

So it doesn't actually matter when I next go and fill it up, as long as I do a fair few miles in it before going back to fill up again? 

 

ETA... I'm starting to suspect Tesco fuel... been putting a lot of that in lately. I wonder if it will do better on Shell?

Edited 18 September, 2018 by Morgana

[Morgana]

And just realised that the fuel I put in yesterday is more expensive than it says at the entrance on the board. Which was £1.279... the receipt says  £1.289.  Hmmmm

 

[Ootohere]

Assuming stuff is done, checked or replaced is a big error, you paid for a Winter Service, you should have an invoice showing parts replaced.

Oil & Oil Filter. Sump Plug,  Pollen / Cabin Filter, Air Filter, Spark Plugs, Washer Fluid if topped up supplied etc etc.

 

If,

No invoice, no Work sheet with Health Check and ticked off items and no Test Drive and report then why would you assume.

http://skoda.co.uk/finance-and-offers/service-and-maintenance/simply-fixed

Things might not get looked at like the Air Cleaner box opened, and spark plugs might well never get changed.

 

So not even 1 pence a litre difference, 34 pence more is hardly the problem.

 

If you pay for a main Dealer Service or someplace else and get charged the same if just Oil & Filter is changed as you do if parts are supplied and the 20% VAT charged is the same, ie Fixed Price on a service you are being ripped off, so is the Tax Man, so us.

 

Tesco fuel is fuel from Greenergy that supplies others fuel and that is not an issue.

You could put in the 'Tesco Momentum 99' &  that would have cost 5 pence more a litre so £1.75 extra on your fill up and seen how that went.

That would have been cheaper than 95 unleaded at Shell, BP,Texaco, Esso etc.   & Greenergy supplies the ESSO fuel.

http://greenergy.com/uk/independent

Sainsbury or Morrison or ASDA Unleaded will not cause your car issues, 

& Sainsbury Super Unleaded 97 ron will be about 5 pence a litre more than their 95 ron and worth a try.

 

Shell 'FuelSave' 95 Unleaded is nothing special, just another unleaded fuel.

Brought into the UK with Greenergy & Royal Dutch Shell to their co-owned storage and there are no 'expensive detergents' in it, 

just the same as other fuel producers have in and that they do not add a premium for.

Edited 18 September, 2018 by Offski

[Morgana]

1 hour ago, Offski said:

 

 

So not even 1 pence a litre difference, 34 pence more is hardly the problem.

 

If you pay for a main Dealer Service or someplace else and get charged the same if just Oil & Filter is changed as you do if parts are supplied and the 20% VAT charged is the same, ie Fixed Price on a service you are being ripped off, so is the Tax Man, so us.

 

 

The point of noting the difference in price is because its advertised at a lesser price than they are actually charging. So being ripped off (even if it is only 1 pence a litre) and it must surely be illegal to do that. 

I note what you say about the service. I took it to my local garage. He did a full winter service as far as I know.  I can't find the receipt/list right now but I know he also replaced a front suspension coil as it was broken. 

[Ootohere]

?

What the sign at the fiiling station and price on the pump is not what is on your receipt?

Never seen a price of £1.279  or £1.289 

Just the likes of 127.7  or 128.9    per litre.

 

I was not talking being ripped off for the petrol,  just maybe the Servicing if a Technician decides if stuff is checked or replaced and £279 gets charged.

 

Tesco Filling station i use most.

Winter Fuel will be getting delivered starting in about a month.

Coming from the same depot as the other filling stations fuels come from.

I look at the sign as i drive in see the price, then check that on the pump, never seen any difference ever.

Same everyplace at whoever, that is what receipts are for.

 

 

Edited 18 September, 2018 by Offski

[SurreyJohn]

In this situation, doing the next fill or 2 with top spec fuel (something like Shell 99, or BP premium) should help.

 

If there is dirt or specs of grot in the system might take a while to shift them, but it should help in the longer run (although short term might be worse if it is cleaning years of accumulated deposits). 

 

I used to work for BP and the addititives are blended in at the fuel loading rack (the raw fuel (officially grade EN228) is piped from a refinery or ship terminal, to where the road tankers for multiple companies are loaded, each company specifies additives that are only added to their fuel at loading rack, into the trucks).    Depending on where you live in the country will determine which refinery it came from (although some loading points like Hemel Hempsted have a pipe from both Stanlow (Merseyside) and Coryton (Thames), although as refinery there was shut, it gets imported EN228

 

One thing that has changed is fuel is now often E5 (5% bio ethanol) and this may increase to E10 (10% bioethanol) soon.   The Biofuels are more prone to problems from condensation which may be relevant if you normally leave your fuel tank nearly empty.  You will need to check the small writing on the pump to see if it is EN228, E0, E5 E10 etc as all will be marketed as unleaded

 

For the record most diesel pumps dispense a version of EN590 gasoil (but again read the small print on the pump if you want to know what you are getting)

 

 

 

 

Edited 18 September, 2018 by SurreyJohn

[Ootohere]

^^^ Do you believe that Shell V-Power Nitro+ is superior to Tesco Momentum 99 that has the same base fuel and then the additive package but might be 10 pence a litre more.

 

Or the also rather more expensive BP Super Umleaded 97 octane has a superior detergent packages?

 

The Winter Fuel will be less Hygroscopic, both Petrol & Diesel.

I love the Winter Super Unleaded in the UK, the 97 minimum or 99 Minimum sold in the UK can exceed that and sometimes be as high as the Continental Europes 100 ron.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel

 

Edited 18 September, 2018 by Offski

[xman]

SurreyJohn, are you sure the "super" fuels have larger detergent additive than standard?

It was reported a few years back that Sainsbury's fuel contract is now with BP (used to be Greenergy). So having worked for BP, do you know if their super unleaded is the same as BP ultimate? It has the same 97 octane rating.

 

Regarding ethanol, (alcohol), I think it's now law for regular EN228 to have 5% minimum, super or premium higher octane fuels do not have this requirement. Tesco Momentum 99 is 5% from the published regular analysis from Greenergy. However I read an independent chemist on a certain forum regularly checks and finds BP ultimate (and by implication Sainsbury's super unleaded) to have no ethanol, is this true?

 

From next month we will see ethanol content marked on fuel pumps under a new law, E0, E5, E10 so that will answer my question.

 

Ethanol loves to absorb water (hygroscopic), so stale fuel in the tank can be full of it.

Edited 18 September, 2018 by xman

[xman]

11 minutes ago, Offski said:

^^^ Do you believe that Shell V-Power Nitro+ is superior to Tesco Momentum 99 that has the same base fuel and then the additive package but might be 10 pence a litre more.

 

 

 

Ski, shell premium fuels have a proportion of GTL (gas to liquid synthesized fuel) so is the exception in not the same base fuel. I don't know what proportion, but I read GTL is only made at one refinery somewhere in Europe.

[Ootohere]

Borewash issues IMO were made worse in those TSI that suffered that with the Royal Dutch Shell product.

We know which engines i am talking about, the only ones i care about.

 

Only had Crap Tesco Momentum 99 into the tank once on a Remapped stage 2 Car going to Santa Pod.

I was staying in Preston went to Blackpool, filled up and the  sh!t happened.

Scorchio day, roads mobbed holiday weekend and car in limp mode with misfires from 95 ron, no doubt about that.

So switchable APR was switched.

Luckily in the boot there were cans of Hiperflo 250 102 octane, 

so i got some in, did more miles, got more in and things improved then cleared fault code and changed to the Stage 2 again.

 

Continental 100 / 100+ Super Unleaded is lovely stuff.

 

http://greenergy.com/press/news   Just read up on the Royal Dutch Shell & Greenergy shared / co-owned facilities and storage depots.

 

From 2012.

UK still buying winter gasoline as European refiners switch to summer _ S&P Global Platts.mhtml

Edited 18 September, 2018 by Offski