Skoda petrol consumption poor

[xman]

I think I read that GTL is significantly different properties to normal petrol, maybe lubricity and other things, and Shell put in certain additives to address that.

 

Maybe it's inherent super detergent properties is what you think gives your favourite engines problems.

[Ootohere]

Or just with VW Group recommended 'Long Life oils' !

[xman]

20 minutes ago, Offski said:

Or just with VW Group recommended 'Long Life oils' !

Or both...

[SurreyJohn]

3 hours ago, xman said:

SurreyJohn, are you sure the "super" fuels have larger detergent additive than standard?

It was reported a few years back that Sainsbury's fuel contract is now with BP (used to be Greenergy). So having worked for BP, do you know if their super unleaded is the same as BP ultimate? It has the same 97 octane rating.

 

Regarding ethanol, (alcohol), I think it's now law for regular EN228 to have 5% minimum, super or premium higher octane fuels do not have this requirement. Tesco Momentum 99 is 5% from the published regular analysis from Greenergy. However I read an independent chemist on a certain forum regularly checks and finds BP ultimate (and by implication Sainsbury's super unleaded) to have no ethanol, is this true?

 

From next month we will see ethanol content marked on fuel pumps under a new law, E0, E5, E10 so that will answer my question.

 

Ethanol loves to absorb water (hygroscopic), so stale fuel in the tank can be full of it.

 

The 95 ron is a minimum, it can be higher

In practice if it is much higher some cheap 91 (or lower) octane fuel will be comingled with it, these lower grades are not normally sold in UK.   Obviously this reduces the average cost of the wholesale fuel so it tends to be blended to as close to (but not below) 95 ron minimum

 

With the superfuels, different brands seem to sell 97, or 98 or even 99 ron minimum.    Exactly what gets added tends to be company specific, and the weird marketing names for the fuel are just names, they do not determine a minimum level of detergent etc.    Different batches will vary slightly depending on crude slate used (the proportions of crude oil from different fields, as oil from each field has different properties). 

 

Some parts of the specs are ranges, others are minimum or maximum, some of the test methods also have an error factor, as an example if it was min 2 and test method is only accurate to 0.11 then 2.1 would not be a fail

 

Diesel fuel goes waxy below a temperature known as cold filter plugging point (CFPP), from memory there are 6 European winter CFPP specs (depending on country), there is an additive called pour point depressant (PPD) which is a chemical that can be added to diesel in winter, obviously somewhere like Portugal doesn't need -20c diesel, but northern Finland needs below -40c

 

Here is a link to fuel specs for those interested

https://www.transportpolicy.net/standard/eu-fuels-diesel-and-gasoline/

 

 

[Morgana]

Very interesting info on the different fuels, guys! 

 

Sorry, Ski, I got the decimal point in the wrong place. That should have read 127.9/128.9 The price on the big sign at the garage forecourt said 127.9, and so did the pump. The receipt said I had paid 128.9 per litre. How many people check the price per litre on a receipt when they have read it on the sign and the pump? 

[Ootohere]

I would not spend £5 on fuel to go back over 35 pence, but i would call the Filling Station and have the manager call me back with the Owners details, and be asking if they know and how and why,

then i would be calling the Trading Standards and Emailing, because many a Mickle maks a muckle and they can sell thousands of litres a day.

So as well as customers being cheated who knows who else is.

 

Costs me nothing, and if a National Fuel Retailer or Supermarket group i will be looking for an apology, 

but first i would want to check my facts & eyesight before looking a right t!t.

 

http://petrolprices.com

 

[xman]

Hmmm, none of my questions answered then. The supermarket fuel debate goes on and on. The majors unwilling to reveal their secrets...or perhaps the secret that the secret ingredients don't exist...or are all the same

[KenONeill]

@Morgana - So divide amount paid by volume dispensed to get the actual price per litre. You're correct that if the price per litre shown on the pump (not on the big sign) is not the price paid, that is illegal (under weights and measure legislation, so that's the council department to contact).

 

Also, a mate of mine who keeps detailed records is absolutely certain he uses 10% more Tesco than BP, Esso, Jet, Shell.

[Ootohere]

We are told, anti foam better quality and all that crap.  They are just engines and you want the Octane or Cetane and fuel that does not mess up cats or DPS etc.

 

Some car manufacturers blame supermarket fuel yet half the fuel sold in the country might be from supermarkets.

[Ootohere]

All major road haulage or transport companies keep records of fuels for vehicles they purchase fuel for.

 

10% more petrol or is that Diesel used to go the same miles if bought from a Tesco or Esso, or NISA, or Costco pump would be a lot.

That would be commonly known by everyone else that monitors fuel, uses Fuely etc.

 

Buyers of large quantities of road fuel have spread sheets and Accountancy Departments.

Self Employed Taxi & airport Transport and couriers etc surely know their fuel use and where purchased.

 

Simple enough for Fuel Producers and Retailers just to publish test results they have from having testing done, 

be those good or bad.

388380a097b04fe693a8c27db8bb4974 (1).pdf

6ca06d648b9541e78fa838fece4a1a23 (1).pdf

Edited 18 September, 2018 by Offski

[xman]

I have queried pump dispenser accuracy twice.

 

At a tesco where the meter reading was blinking and jumping up every few seconds. The attendant got a very large calibrated container out with a cone that could measure to the nearest cc. Dispensed 10 litres iirc and sure enough the container had 10.000litres, but she said she would shut down the pump and call service guy to look at it.

 

2nd time at a Shell garage, the non english speaking attendant hadn't a clue what I was on about, or didn't want to know. So phone council trading office responsible no one in but phoned me back a few days later. No its OK that station was checked two months ago and their sticker is still valid for a few months yet.

[Ootohere]

They have their own Forecourt Maintenance Contractors and checking delivery is important as they pay tax & duty as well as collecting it from the customer, 

they would not want to oversell and underselling can have big penalties.

 

Days of a sixpenny in a bottom of a 1/4 gill spirit measure behind a bar were over decades ago.

 

I worked on fuel pumps first when i was 14 going on 15 year old.

Pumping Derv to account holders, large quantity of fuel,  tank was not filled, the boss and the driver split the difference, i got free fuel for my mates bikes, tiger cubs, bantams and scooters.

Bought my first moped and car from the money earned on the pumps.  Redex 2 dashes for 10 pence at that time.

[Morgana]

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

@Morgana - So divide amount paid by volume dispensed to get the actual price per litre. You're correct that if the price per litre shown on the pump (not on the big sign) is not the price paid, that is illegal (under weights and measure legislation, so that's the council department to contact).

 

Also, a mate of mine who keeps detailed records is absolutely certain he uses 10% more Tesco than BP, Esso, Jet, Shell.

I'm also pretty sure I get more miles to the gallon when using non supermarket fuel.  Which is usually Shell around here. 
I will check all price signs, and pump prices and the receipt again next time I go. I intend going back to the Shell station after I've given it a good run. That might not be until the weekend though, as both my parents are in their late 80s - one in hospital at the moment) and precious little time to do anything! 

 

If the results of the petrol mpg test are that the car is using a lot of petrol and it's not just me thinking it, do you think some red-x might help with this problem, or the posh expensive fuel at the service station?  I have had this car for over two years now, so I know how much petrol I should be using for the miles I do, and that's why I noticed it's using a lot more.  That's why I asked the question.  

Edited 18 September, 2018 by Morgana

[KenONeill]

@Morgana - Well, my thoughts would actually revolve around a failed coolant temperature sensor telling the EMS the engine is always cold. You can't diagnose that from the gauge because a VAG CTS has 2 channels, and the EMS and gauge are on different channels! If you can smell petrol in the exhaust after a 10 minute drive, that would also be indicative.

[Ootohere]

Forget posh fuel, fuel additives.

 

If the Air Filter is dirty replace it, if the plugs have been in for years and the gap never checked replace them.

 

Then when sure the car is serviced in a basic manner then look at other stuff.

[Morgana]

16 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@Morgana - Well, my thoughts would actually revolve around a failed coolant temperature sensor telling the EMS the engine is always cold. You can't diagnose that from the gauge because a VAG CTS has 2 channels, and the EMS and gauge are on different channels! If you can smell petrol in the exhaust after a 10 minute drive, that would also be indicative.

thanks, Ken, I will check that out today. The sensor for a cold engine appears on the dash lights every time I start the car, a 'cold temp' blue icon. Even in the very hot summer, this has always been there, and it goes out shortly afterwards. But that might not be working properly. 

 

Funny you should mention smelling petrol though. It's just reminded me of something. After driving 64 miles last Sat, my friend said he could smell petrol... so that's a pointer, maybe. There was a car with a twin exhaust parked opposite, engine idling, we assumed it was that, but perhaps it was mine!

[Morgana]

16 hours ago, Offski said:

Forget posh fuel, fuel additives.

 

If the Air Filter is dirty replace it, if the plugs have been in for years and the gap never checked replace them.

 

Then when sure the car is serviced in a basic manner then look at other stuff.

Thanks, Offski. Will see to that next time I get chance to go to the garage.   After doing the fuel test...

[Ootohere]

Cold Blue temp light is fine, even in summer if the Ambient temp is 30*oC plus and inside the car is 40*oC plus the Coolant in the Radiator and system is not at 50*oC or near 90*oC

neither is the oil in the engine when you start the car from cold, so still not at an efficient operating temp.

 

[Robjon]

As above - the cold blue light is working exactly as it should.

 

I'm beginning to think your poor fuel consumption is due only to the combination of tiptronic gearbox (which saps engine power in the lower gears) and the number of cold starts / short journeys you are forced to make.  When things return to normal, your fuel consumption probably will, too.

 

Hope all goes well for your parents.

[RichardatWakefield]

Hi Morgana, my "2" trim Roomster has a rocker switch on the end of the wipers stalk.  Rocking it in one or other direction takes me round through a sequence of useful info displays, the one I use most often is the MPG with circle with diagonal line through, that is a continuous journey average miles per gallon.  

 

Using this setting:-        First quarter mile up hill and wait to join main road, can be 19---24mpg, creeps steadily up once I join the M62 (a mile away), first three miles all uphill, gets into mid or high 40's, on a steady accelerator pedal setting the speed creeps through 50's, after about 6 miles the oil temperature has caught up with the coolant, gearbox oil warming, tyres ditto, and car loosens up and will then increase through 60 to 70mph.  By which point the journey average MPG is heading up through the 50's.   And after an especially economical journey from Congleton back here via M6, M62 and bit of M60, journey average can climb to 72mpg.

 

If yours has similar display options , with info coming from the ECU (electronic control unit) or EMS (engine management system), you might find it useful.

 

Shorter journeys, using aircon, headlights, or as happened recently, a worn and rumbly LH front wheel bearing, all lead to poorer MPG.

 

There's also a moment-by-moment MPG setting, and a miles to needing to refuel (if I vent the filler neck I can get extra fuel in, system has suggested range from full in the high 800s/low 900s of miles. 

 

As others have said, my fuel tank display can stay "full" for up to 200 miles, then drops in a more linear fashion.

 

On my car, trip mileage re-set is press & hold knob at bottom right of instruments.

 

And I keep a little book to log fuel in, at what date, supplier, price and mileage, £££ spent, elapsed miles, MPG and fuel pence per mile, latter currently c 8.6p.

 

Conversion litres to gallons I use is divide litres by 4.5462, then divide elapsed miles (from previous tank-full) by your gallonage.    Calculator app in smartassfone.

 

Fuel price per mile is price to fill divided by number of miles covered.

 

And I use Millers Oils, and their excellent Diesel Eco Power Plus fuel additive, have done since 1988.

 

Hope that helps!

Edited 19 September, 2018 by RichardatWakefield
Improve reply to post.

[Morgana]

20 hours ago, Robjon said:

As above - the cold blue light is working exactly as it should.

 

I'm beginning to think your poor fuel consumption is due only to the combination of tiptronic gearbox (which saps engine power in the lower gears) and the number of cold starts / short journeys you are forced to make.  When things return to normal, your fuel consumption probably will, too.

 

Hope all goes well for your parents.

thank you for your thoughts, Robjon.  It could well be the cold starts and short journeys... however, I have been doing this for at least a year now, so I would have noticed before this point in time, I think. Could be just the hellish price of fuel, although where once I put in around £20 to top up, I now put in £30...

 

I don't have a tiptronic gearbox, it's an ordinary, everyday one.

 

thanks for your thoughts, Richard... I used to find that moment-by-moment fuel display very distracting!  So I switched it off. I set the trip miles to zero since I filled up to the click, and will note down the trips and whether short or long. 

 

I found the last service record. It was carried out on 5/12/17. They changed the engine oil did an inspection service, changed the spark plugs, changed the air filter, changed the fuel filter, according to the service proof record. There has also been an interim short service sometime in March/April, as they did that when they replaced the window motor. 

Edited 20 September, 2018 by Morgana
added a bit

[Ootohere]

& a few years back it was 140 pence a litre, then 100 pence and even 99, then, 110 & now 130 pence.

 

???

Is it a manual 1.6 petrol you have?

 

If you have an Auto you do have a Tiptronic gearbox. 

In your OP you wondered if it was 'stuck in sport'.

 

*Has that Air Filter been looked at yet.  Dirty air filters increase fuel consumption.*

As to the 'tiptronic' gearbox it did not have a Service Schedule / Guidelines for a ATF change, and maybe now some do change it.

Edited 20 September, 2018 by Offski

[Robjon]

Roomster 3 1.6 Auto gearboxes are Tiptronic.  Tiptronic gearboxes operate similarly to the old everyday torque converter gearboxes (sometimes referred to as "slushboxes").  Thus Tiptronics are less efficient than the DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox) fitted to later cars. 

 

Unlike the old torque converter gearboxes, Tiptronics "lock up" in top gear, which bypasses the power-sapping torque converter.  So if you spend a lot of time in top gear, your car will be reasonably economical.  But if you spend a lot of time in the lower gears (as in short, stop-start, urban use) your mpg will take a major nose-dive due to the effects of the torque converter.

 

I've simplified things a little for clarity, but I hope this helps.

[Ootohere]

I borrowed a Fabia 1.6 Tiptronic estate from a dealership when it was brand new and not run in, and they were wanting 3,000 miles on it as there was a buyer for this 'Demonstrator'.

I gave it about 300 miles of an easy life then gave it a Happy Time for about 6 weeks.

It was fun being given spirited driving and not a heavy drinker.  But used just a few miles a day for a few days i thought it was related to Oliver Reed.

The Dealership was across the road from Asda and that is where it got filled up as there was 2 pence a litre off with a Asda Credit card.

[Morgana]

22 hours ago, Robjon said:

Roomster 3 1.6 Auto gearboxes are Tiptronic.  Tiptronic gearboxes operate similarly to the old everyday torque converter gearboxes (sometimes referred to as "slushboxes").  Thus Tiptronics are less efficient than the DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox) fitted to later cars. 

 

Unlike the old torque converter gearboxes, Tiptronics "lock up" in top gear, which bypasses the power-sapping torque converter.  So if you spend a lot of time in top gear, your car will be reasonably economical.  But if you spend a lot of time in the lower gears (as in short, stop-start, urban use) your mpg will take a major nose-dive due to the effects of the torque converter.

 

I've simplified things a little for clarity, but I hope this helps.

Thank you for the simplification... Yes, I do think I have the tiptronic gear box.  It's six speed, has a sports mode (not that I ever use it!) and has a manual gear change mode. So maybe just the crap gearbox then. Always been fine up to now.