Tried and failed!

[roaddetective]

Got to work on my rear brakes today. No problem changing the brake lines for the final 2 Goodridge brake hoses.  I then wanted to fit new disks and pads. I read on here that the torx bolts to get the whole caliper off were a bit of a sod to undo, as they were rather tight. That was an understatement. Been changing brake pads and disks all my life as a home mechanic and never had a problem before. You just can't get the car high enough to get good space and leverage with the breaker bar and torx bit. Tried small bar and hammer on it, those bolts will not move. Bloody annoying to have to take the car to the garage and pay for labour, just for them to do a simple job because I don't have a ramp. Oh well, such is life!!   

[Guest]

You're referring to the caliper carrier bolts?

[roaddetective]

19 minutes ago, MicMac said:

You're referring to the caliper carrier bolts?

 Correct MicMac. Tight as hell, unless you are underneath the vehicle with my breaker bar. Still tight then mind, but with leverage should be a whole lot easier. Cars are getting harder and harder to work on yourself!

[Guest]

If you're just removing the caliper for servicing why disturb the carrier?

[roaddetective]

14 minutes ago, MicMac said:

If you're just removing the caliper for servicing why disturb the carrier?

You need to get the carrier off to fit new brake disks.

[Guest]

Never needed to in my experience but YMMV.

[roaddetective]

2 minutes ago, MicMac said:

Never needed to in my experience but YMMV.

That would be great if you don't need to take the carrier off to change rear brake disks. I though there was not enough space with the carrier in place. Are you sure that is the case, because if so, will have another go at it another day.

[roaddetective]

Just watched a you tube tutorial and he took the carrier off, so I think it will be off to the local indie garage for this one.

[Ju1ian1001]

Even on a two post lift the caliper carrier bolts are a pain, not enough room there really. 

[roaddetective]

1 minute ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

Even on a two post lift the caliper carrier bolts are a pain, not enough room there really. 

I will let the garage struggle with it. Never had this problem in the past with other vehicles. Why fit bolts that are so hard to get loose?

[Guest]

I've read many comments on how problematic the splined carrier bolts can be.

 

I replaced the brakes all round earlier this year and didn't touch them.

 

Remove the 2 caliper sliding pin bolts, remove the caliper and pads, the disc retaining screw and the disc will come off at an angle.

[Ju1ian1001]

1 minute ago, roaddetective said:

I will let the garage struggle with it. Never had this problem in the past with other vehicles. Why fit bolts that are so hard to get loose?

Stupid design, but the the calipers being where they are is supposed to be more effective, they should of used a normal bolt head, at least that way you could use a spanner with an extender on it.

 

[Ju1ian1001]

2 minutes ago, MicMac said:

I've read many comments on how problematic the splined carrier bolts can be.

 

I replaced the brakes all round earlier this year and didn't touch them.

 

Remove the 2 caliper sliding pin bolts, remove the caliper and pads, the disc retaining screw and the disc will come off at an angle.

only on the ones with the smaller discs on the back. the higher powered models have a larger disc size so the carrier has to come off. I know fro experience the carrier has to come of on mine, as we do alot of rear VAG group vehicles.

[xman]

19 minutes ago, roaddetective said:

I will let the garage struggle with it. Never had this problem in the past with other vehicles. Why fit bolts that are so hard to get loose?

 

I suspect a garage will heat the bolts ?or hub? before hanging on a breaker bar.

 

Also I seem to remember someone recommended to use a short key to optimise access and leverage.

 

Are they stretch (one use) bolts?

Edited 21 October, 2018 by xman

[Ju1ian1001]

2 minutes ago, xman said:

 

I suspect a garage will heat the bolts up before hanging on a breaker bar.

 

Also I seem to remember someone recommended to use a short key to optimise access and leverage.

Yep short torx bit socket, luckly mine is also 1/2 inch drive as well, my breaker bar at work 36 inches (my first snap on tool bought 20 years ago and still going strong) in length so they do come undone, normally with a loud crack noise as they go, haven't any rounded any bolts yet. The key is the torx bit must be a nug fit in the bolt, if it's loose the bolt will round off.

[roaddetective]

15 minutes ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

only on the ones with the smaller discs on the back. the higher powered models have a larger disc size so the carrier has to come off. I know fro experience the carrier has to come of on mine, as we do alot of rear VAG group vehicles.

I assume mine, being 272mm are the larger disks that will not come off without removing the carrier first?

 

[Ju1ian1001]

9 minutes ago, roaddetective said:

I assume mine, being 272mm are the larger disks that will not come off without removing the carrier first?

 

yep correct

 

[VRsdgm]

Get the correct spline bit, you’ll round them off with a torx bit for sure.  Even with the spline bit you have to tap it in firmly to get proper purchase due to corrosion.  The carrier bolts should be replaced too, part number N90948802.  On the VRS you have to remove the carrier to change the discs, it’s not even a close call to get the discs off with them still on.

[roaddetective]

13 minutes ago, VRsdgm said:

Get the correct spline bit, you’ll round them off with a torx bit for sure.  Even with the spline bit you have to tap it in firmly to get proper purchase due to corrosion.  The carrier bolts should be replaced too, part number N90948802.  On the VRS you have to remove the carrier to change the discs, it’s not even a close call to get the discs off with them still on.

Thanks for the info VRsdgm. Have to order some bolts before I get it into the garage for them to do it. They might not be aware new bolts are needed. Gone are the days you took a bolt out and put the same one in again. Just by a stroke of luck, I am training some of the guys at TPS in Staverton this week, so will get them while I am there. 

[Stu vRS]

Not enjoying reading this when I've got the rear brakes to do this week!

 

By the way its an M14 triple square, not torx.

[VRsdgm]

These are the spline bits I used, you need the shorter bits rather than long ones, or at least I did.  It’s too tight to get access on two of the bolts with the longer bits.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Laser-3799-Spline-Bit-30mm/dp/B0038717EK

[roaddetective]

15 minutes ago, Stu vRS said:

Not enjoying reading this when I've got the rear brakes to do this week!

 

By the way its an M14 triple square, not torx.

The bit I bought on the internet for the bolts looks the same as my star bit set, only larger. It certainly had to be tapped into the bolt and was a tight fit. It has CR-V14 on the side. If you are also going to try to replace your disks, good luck to that mate. If it is only the pads, easy job. I will leave it to the local garage now and pay them.

[gav_is_con]

I mave have had the same problem, I may have even posted here for some help. I used a second jack to crack the issue literally. Jacked the 1/2" ratchet with the spline/torx thingy on the end. 

Even if was not this particular issue, the principles are the same. 

[Stu vRS]

33 minutes ago, gav_is_con said:

I mave have had the same problem, I may have even posted here for some help. I used a second jack to crack the issue literally. Jacked the 1/2" ratchet with the spline/torx thingy on the end. 

Even if was not this particular issue, the principles are the same. 

 

That's what I was thinking of doing, mini 1/2 breaker and jack underneath, failing that the air impact wrench is coming out!

 

Surely it can't be as bad as everyone is making out (tempting fate here) 

[trundlenut]

I wrapped a long loading strap around the end of a wrench, then from about 20' away from the car using a gate post for leverage managed to crack the calliper bolts off.