Should I stay, or should I go?

[pinkpanther]

For some time now I have been pondering whether to keep my current Yeti (2014) 140 BHP 4x4 Tour de France. 

 

It has covered around 77k miles and in that time has required a couple of relatively minor warranty repairs (replacement of rear seat-belt buckles, due to fraying and a replacement Sat-Nav / DAB roof aerial, due to it becoming discoloured).  The car also required a replacement passenger door locking mechanism, which was picked up during the PDi.

 

The first set of tyres lasted until around ~46k miles and these were switched to Michelin Cross climates, which have proved excellent in all conditions. 

 

The first 2 (long-life) services were carried at by the supplying main dealer (@ ~18k and 36k miles) but with the expiry of the warranty (initially on mileage and latterly on age) I then elected to service the car outside the dealer network, I stuck with the manufacturers recommendations for servicing and my chosen VAG specialist (Autohaus Dolby) has done an excellent job of keeping the car in good shape (brake fluid and Haldex fluid etc, in addition to yearly servicing).  A water pump / cam belt change is penciled in for the cars 5th birthday.

 

Other than the relatively minor issues (mentioned above) I have several zinc inclusions (on the lower doors), which I have decided not to pursue, given it is now maintained / serviced outside the dealer network. A previous (2012) white Yeti had a door re-sprayed, as a consequence of zinc inclusions, but it was a bit of a rigmarole getting this approved and I suspect my non-main dealer maintained (and remapped) car will lead to me facing difficulties getting this approved by VAG, as a warranty job. I have a touch-up pen and plan to take appropriate action, once these blisters finally burst!

 

I agreed to have the EA189 update applied, which is a source of constant regret on my part! The car was running well prior to this and my experiences (and subsequent actions) are well documented here: EA189 update

 

The car has developed the odd creak here and there, but has passed the first 2 MOT's with no advisories and continues to perform well. I had it stage 1 re-mapped by Shark, although I see they have now gone out of business. The brakes are original and I'd estimate the front's are ~60% worn, whereas the rears are only 30% worn.

 

I've test driven numerous alternatives (3008. Karoq, Kodiak, Qashqai, CRV etc), but each time I get back in my old Yeti I'm struck by just how "right" this car is and cannot make a convincing case for switching. I had hoped to like the Karoq, but the lack of a reasonably priced manual 4x4 put me off. I don't strictly need 4x4, but appreciate the sure-footedness this affords, along with the independent rear suspension set-up and ability to "get the power down" cleanly.  The Kodiak was a little too big and the larger (2.0 petrol) is only available with DSG. The 1.4 TSi was OK, but I suspect it might struggle when fully laded.

 

I also test drove both the 1.4 TSi (150 BHP) Yeti 4x4, 170 BHP TDi and the newer (ad-blue) equipped 150 BHP iteration of the 4x4 Yeti. I'm not a lover of DSG and would only contemplate a traditional (torque converter) auto, sadly not available with any VAG product.  The BMW 8 speed Automatic (ZF) is a revelation and may yet be on my radar - see below.

 

Given I value my current Yeti so highly I did give consideration to buying one of the run-out models (SE / SE-L drive) but was put off by both the complexity of the Ad-blue implementation (I'd no doubt spill it all over the boot carpet!) and also the 150 BHP TDi engine. I had hoped this would be a significant advance on my older 140 BHP TDi, but it seemed just as coarse, and not significantly quicker, despite it's additional 10 BHP. A close friend has an Ad-blue equipped SEAT, which almost permanently has the engine management light illuminated, due to issues relating to the Ad-blue dosing system. I'm sure this may be reliable when fitted to a car designed with it in mind, but the Yeti implementation appears to be more of a cobbled together attempt to satisfy current emissions standards, with an ageing chassis.

 

I was certainly impressed by the 1.4 (150 BHP) TSi Yeti, but this is only available in L&K trim. I'm not keen on the interior colour combo and would not be keen to own anything out of warranty, which is fitted with a VAG panoramic roof, given the recent threads on here regarding both leaks, and the not inconsiderable cost of rectification.

 

This leaves me either sourcing a late as possible 170 TDi, or sticking with my current car. I'd more than likely have any replacement 170 TDi remapped, so it's EA189 status is relatively unimportant. I understand the 170 BHP Yeti has larger front brakes and also a bigger inter-cooler, which should see it reaching ~200 BHP, once stage 1 mapped??

 

My other alternative is to stick with what I've got and continue to run it until such time as something major fails. The current value of my car is relatively low (probably £6-7k), given the model is now obsolete and it is (relatively) high mileage.  Should I keep this car I plan to replace the Michelin Cross Climates with another set of 4 (more than likely the new + variants) and also change both the cam belt and water pump. I had also considered upgrading the front brakes to 312 mm and believe i need new caliper carriers, in addition to the bigger discs? Failing this I thought I might replace the exiting discs / pads with something a little more premium (? EBC pads / discs - EBC disc / pad options for 2014 4x4 Yeti).

 

I did look at what else is available for the price of a replacement Yeti (~£20K) and am drawn to a BMW 335D X-Drive.  This offers both 4x4 and pretty astonishing levels of performance (308 BHP, 465 lb/ft and 0-60 < 5 seconds - 335D X-Drive specs). I test drove a somewhat more modest 2.0D version and found this offered a considerable step-up in terms of both interior quality, and fit and finish, compared to my Yeti. The X-drive seemed just as effective as my current (Haldex V) Yeti and the 8 speed ZF Automatic was a revelation, in terms of  both responsiveness and smooth operation. Something along these lines appeals (gotta love the colour of the seats!!): 335 D X-Drive Autotrader Advert

 

Apologies for this somewhat long-winded post, but getting my thoughts down in this fashion helps me to develop a clearer picture of my next move.

 

Grateful for any hints / tips / advice.

[Llanigraham]

150 Ad-blue system: whilst it looks complicated it really isn't, once you have bought the correct filling bottle. Following my problems at work and an operation my right hand isn't that "handy" anymore but I can manage to fill it without making a mess. And I've found you only need to fill it every 5k miles approx, so not that often.

The 150 is surprising fuel frugal. Keeping speed to around 60 I can average the mid 50's on a long run, and it certainly picks-up better than the previous 140. I certainly don't regret getting one.

[kenfowler3966]

Adblu is not a issue. I have now refilled my tank 3 times. You cant spill it on the carpet as you have to lift it out of the way, so any small spills end up on the painted metalwork or top of the plastic tank and are easily removed.

I a m very hapy with my 150, and it isjust as refined as a prior 110 and a Geenline, with ample power. Indeed it is the most powerful car I have ever owned or been provided as a company car n 43 years driving. And with its 4x4 and dsg the most practical car too.

[pinkpanther]

Hi both, Many thanks for the reassurance regarding ad-blue - will keep this option in mind.

[pinkpanther]

I should also mention my DPF oil ash currently stands at 0.08 l (46%) so hopefully plenty of life left yet.

[weasley]

Have you considered a Volvo XC?  They use ‘proper’ autos.  The new 60 might be out of your price range but the previous one is still a nice car.

[kenfowler3966]

If you stick with your current car or buy a 170ps, these are Euro 5. Eventually these are going to come under some access restrictions in places.

If you don't want adblu or similar, I suppose that means a petrol engine, or even hybrid or full electric. Personally I think full electric and hybrid are still in early development and overpriced. Don't want to replace battery pack at 5 years old or so at huge cost, or event potentially write car off as economically not viable at that age.

Still think Euro 6 diesel is best compromise as no more nox than a petrol car, and far less co2, whilst costing a lot less in fuel to run?

 

With adblu I am hoping the DPF , EGR etc will last a lot longer as not running so much fuel through to try and clean exhaust; opposite of what the fix does?

 

Any euro 6 diesels out there which don't use adblu or similar exhaust treatment?

[Sad555]

BATH is already planning a £9 city center pollution  charge on diesel cars older than euro 6 and petrol older that 2006 and £ 100 on trucks ,within this zone is the Sainsburys petrol station which would mean drivers of the older vehicles would have to make longer journeys to get fuel.

[weasley]

12 minutes ago, kenfowler3966 said:

Still think Euro 6 diesel is best compromise as no more nox than a petrol car, and far less co2, whilst costing a lot less in fuel to run?

 

With adblu I am hoping the DPF , EGR etc will last a lot longer as not running so much fuel through to try and clean exhaust; opposite of what the fix does?

 

Any euro 6 diesels out there which don't use adblu or similar exhaust treatment?

 

Taking each above point in turn:

 

- not sure I agree that Euro 6 diesels emit "no more NOx" than a petrol?

- I'm not sure how AdBlue will extend the life of the EGR and DPF?  The DPF will still need to be regenerated regularly.  There's an argument that with SCR in place you can run the engine hotter, which naturally reduces PM and HC emissions leading to much higher NOx, but the SCR can deal with this in the exhaust.  The Euro 6 targets are so tight though that you can't play the either/or game any more, you need them all.

- I'm not aware of any (see above).

[xman]

6 minutes ago, weasley said:

- I'm not sure how AdBlue will extend the life of the EGR and DPF?  

 

That's because it wont. 

[kenfowler3966]

The fix resultsd in more soot being produced which has reduced the life of the EGR and DPF in some cases. This was an attempt to remove the nox in cars without adblu? Hence an adblu car should meet the required standard without cheating, and is not damaging the egr and DPF so much as in cars with the fix applied.

 

Euro 6 diesel nox is limited to 0.08, only very slightly more than petrol at 0.06 (I had read this before as both at 0.08. but must have misread the 6 for an 8, easily done.)

This is hugely better than Euro 3 diesel at 0.5, and before that unmeasured!

[xman]

3 minutes ago, kenfowler3966 said:

The fix resultsd in more soot being produced which has reduced the life of the EGR and DPF in some cases. This was an attempt to remove the nox in cars without adblu? Hence an adblu car should meet the required standard without cheating, and is not damaging the egr and DPF so much as in cars with the fix applied.

 

 

So back to 2017. So how does Adblue improve on those?

 

As for comparing emissions to Euro3 ??? My Alhambra had that covered in the last century 1998.

 

The thing about NOx is hardly anyone complies with the regulation limits in real world driving, hence the complicated phasing in of Euro 6d, RDE and beyond. Most reports I've seen say petrol engines on average are much lower than diesels even with Adblue which is currently under investigation for further cheating.

[pinkpanther]

Many thanks for all the replies - food for thought indeed.

 

Whilst the above posts are reassuring, from an Ad-blue perspective,  I remain wary of the added complexity this involves and I have pretty much discounted this option. 

 

I'd previously owned a Lexus and  was mightily impressed with both customer service (from both the supplying dealer and Lexus themselves) and the build quality of the cars. I was intrigued by hybrid, but was left somewhat cold by both a CT200 (Prius drivetrain) and IS300h (2.5 4 cylinder with a battery). The bigger hybrids (RX and GS450h) make no particular effort regarding outright economy, but are mightily impressive in terms of straight-line performance. The  NX300h is an intriguing option, but is still rather costly and not yet old enough to fall within my price range.

 

A couple of friends drive both XC60 (older model) and the newer XC90 - certainly impressed with these and will take a closer look at an older XC60 (a new XC90 is well outside my price range and I'm not a big fan of the older (2.5 D5 XC90).

 

I did also test drive a Nissan Leaf, but the charging infrastructure / range just isn't there (currently).

 

I'm currently leaning towards either keeping my current car and carrying out all necessary maintenance (tyres / cam belt / water pump / brakes etc) or opting for a 335D X-Drive Estate.

 

Update to follow.............................

 

 

[ejstubbs]

23 hours ago, pinkpanther said:

Whilst the above posts are reassuring, from an Ad-blue perspective,  I remain wary of the added complexity this involves and I have pretty much discounted this option. 

 

I'm currently leaning towards either keeping my current car and carrying out all necessary maintenance (tyres / cam belt / water pump / brakes etc) or opting for a 335D X-Drive Estate.

 

That BMW is a fair bit pokier than a Yeti!

 

As far as I can tell the 335D is a Euro 6 engine which, going by Weasley's post, will use AdBlue, which you seem to have an aversion to.

 

I do think you may be over-thinking the AdBlue question.  Yes, the location of the filler in the Yeti boot is not completely ideal, being a retro-fitted design rather than designed in from the outset.  But it's straightforward to minimise any risk of spillage by using a bottle or hose with the spill-proof filler nozzle: that screws on to the top of the tank filler and doesn't release the fluid until you push down (gently) on the bottle/the nozzle at the end of the hose.  I bought the Skoda top-up bottle with the spill-proof filler, complete with 1.9l of AdBlue from my friendly local dealer, and decant in to it from 10l drums of generic Adblue bought from whoever is doing it cheapest at the time I'm starting to run low.  At 5,000km per top-up it's an infrequent job for me.  If you do high mileage then it will, obviously, be needed more often - but still nowhere near as frequently as filling the fuel tank.  And you get plenty of warning of a top-up being needed.  You're vanishingly unlikely to find yourself desperately searching for a source of AdBlue at midnight in the p!ssing rain in the wilds of the Scottish Highlands, unless you wilfully ignore what the car's telling you.

 

I can kind of understand the 'added complexity' argument but I reckon SCR technology is pretty mature these days, to the point where (admittedly partly due to regulation) it's nigh-on ubiquitous for modern automotive diesels.  Yes, it's reasonable to be wary of the cutting-edge of new technology but I don't reckon AdBlue falls in to that camp these days.  When you think of all the technology in our cars these days compared to what it was like within living memory, it's clear that there comes a point in the life of most technologies that are actually worth having (rather than just gimmicks) when they mature in terms of reliability and cost-effectiveness to the point where they become the norm.  I'm happier driving a car with stuff like modern, intelligent fuel injection, ABS, and all the occupant protection technology and such that we have these days, compared to carburettors, manual chokes, crossply tyres, fixed seat belts and impact hazards all over the cabin.  (That said, I do miss a little bit being able to understand what the flippin' thing is doing and maybe fix it myself.  Not enough to make me a poster boy for cognitive dissonance, though.)

 

The final motivation for me to switch to a Euro 6 engined Yeti was, as kenfowler3966 alluded to, the introduction of Low Emissions Zones which are likely to penalise/prohibit older engines first.  Having made the move I am more than happy with my 150 4x4 DSG* Yeti.

 

* The DSG was a new step for me, and is a revelation in itself.  Again, when I bought my first Yeti it was scary new technology and I chose to avoid.  This time around - only just over seven years later - I didn't have a qualm.  When you think of how much stuff in modern cars is done by electronics these days, and then think back to the days of Joe Lucas** Prince of Darkness when even adequate road lighting seemed like an undreamed-of luxury, you begin to realise just how much the industry has learned about deploying sophisticated technology in a way that is basically reliable and largely trouble-free.  (Which is not to say that they don't sometimes stuff it up, though.)

** Inventor of the first intermittent windscreen wiper, the self-dimming headlight, and original patent holder for the short circuit.

Edited 23 October, 2018 by ejstubbs

[pinkpanther]

6 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

 

That BMW is a fair bit pokier than a Yeti!

 

As far as I can tell the 335D is a Euro 6 engine which, going by Weasley's post, will use AdBlue, which you seem to have an aversion to.

 

I do think you may be over-thinking the AdBlue question.  Yes, the location of the filler in the Yeti boot is not completely ideal, being a retro-fitted design rather than designed in from the outset.  But it's straightforward to minimise any risk of spillage by using a bottle or hose with the spill-proof filler nozzle: that screws on to the top of the tank filler and doesn't release the fluid until you push down (gently) on the bottle/the nozzle at the end of the hose.  I bought the Skoda top-up bottle with the spill-proof filler, complete with 1.9l of AdBlue from my friendly local dealer, and decant in to it from 10l drums of generic Adblue bought from whoever is doing it cheapest at the time I'm starting to run low.  At 5,000km per top-up it's an infrequent job for me.  If you do high mileage then it will, obviously, be needed more often - but still nowhere near as frequently as filling the fuel tank.  And you get plenty of warning of a top-up being needed.  You're vanishingly unlikely to find yourself desperately searching for a source of AdBlue at midnight in the p!ssing rain in the wilds of the Scottish Highlands, unless you wilfully ignore what the car's telling you.

 

I can kind of understand the 'added complexity' argument but I reckon SCR technology is pretty mature these days, to the point where (admittedly partly due to regulation) it's nigh-on ubiquitous for modern automotive diesels.  Yes, it's reasonable to be wary of the cutting-edge of new technology but I don't reckon AdBlue falls in to that camp these days.  When you think of all the technology in our cars these days compared to what it was like within living memory, it's clear that there comes a point in the life of most technologies that are actually worth having (rather than just gimmicks) when they mature in terms of reliability and cost-effectiveness to the point where they become the norm.  I'm happier driving a car with stuff like modern, intelligent fuel injection, ABS, and all the occupant protection technology and such that we have these days, compared to carburettors, manual chokes, crossply tyres, fixed seat belts and impact hazards all over the cabin.  (That said, I do miss a little bit being able to understand what the flippin' thing is doing and maybe fix it myself.  Not enough to make me a poster boy for cognitive dissonance, though.)

 

The final motivation for me to switch to a Euro 6 engined Yeti was, as kenfowler3966 alluded to, the introduction of Low Emissions Zones which are likely to penalise/prohibit older engines first.  Having made the move I am more than happy with my 150 4x4 DSG* Yeti.

 

* The DSG was a new step for me, and is a revelation in itself.  Again, when I bought my first Yeti it was scary new technology and I chose to avoid.  This time around - only just over seven years later - I didn't have a qualm.  When you think of how much stuff in modern cars is done by electronics these days, and then think back to the days of Joe Lucas** Prince of Darkness when even adequate road lighting seemed like an undreamed-of luxury, you begin to realise just how much the industry has learned about deploying sophisticated technology in a way that is basically reliable and largely trouble-free.  (Which is not to say that they don't sometimes stuff it up, though.)

** Inventor of the first intermittent windscreen wiper, the self-dimming headlight, and original patent holder for the short circuit.

Grateful for you input regarding Ad-Blue / Euro 6 Yeti's.

 

My current car has covered ~76k miles in 4 and a bit years, so guessing I'm a high mileage user?

 

A close family member previously had an Ad-blue equipped Peugeot (2008) and the size of the SCR tank on this ensured top ups were a relatively infrequent occurrence . My understand of the Yeti implementation is it's a much smaller tank and full-ups are required 4000 - 5000 miles. My boot is generally full and I can envisage this happening every few months,

 

Cars designed with Ad-Blue in mind tend to have the following arrangement for re-filling whereas the last (second hand) Euro 6 Yeti I looked at in my local main dealer had a considerably stained boot carpet and required me to delve into the depths of the side of the boot to attach a refilling hose.

 

My judgement is also somewhat coloured by several threads on here relating to issues with the Yeti Ad-Blue system and also a close friends experience with a SEAT Alhambra. This has a failed SCR tank heater, which is now an MOT fail (MIL light is on) and the costs of rectification are eye watering.

 

Given the shear volume of TDi's on the road I suspect it will be a long while before major conurbations follow the London congestion charge type of approach and ban later (Euro 5) diesels. I am however all for getting the older (on DPF equipped) diesels off the road.

 

I do wonder what the emissions are of my re-mapped Euro 5 Yeti?

 

[silver1011]

A colleague at work has just successfully rejected his VW Transporter due to an unfixable intermittent fault with the AdBlue system.

[Ootohere]

Re Alhambra TDI's with SCR (AdBlue), 

are there actually ones now over 3 years old that are out of manufacturers warranty so the owner would be paying for the faulty system?

[pinkpanther]

45 minutes ago, Offski said:

Re Alhambra TDI's with SCR (AdBlue), 

are there actually ones now over 3 years old that are out of manufacturers warranty so the owner would be paying for the faulty system?

My friend has a 5 year old one with a faulty SCR system. They've not had the EA189 emissions update, so little chance of the manufacturer (VAG) covering the cost of repairs.

[ejstubbs]

If it was an engine with SCR it wouldn't have needed the EA189 emissions update.

 

[Sad555]

pretty hot these BMW

[pinkpanther]

12 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

If it was an engine with SCR it wouldn't have needed the EA189 emissions update.

 

Not sure about that - it's definitely the same (140 BHP) as that in my Yeti and comes up on the SEAT EA189 online checker as requiring the update.

[pinkpanther]

7 hours ago, Sad555 said:

pretty hot these BMW

leaking EGR cooler apparently.

 

My Yeti's already had a recall for it's EGR cooler, so presumably is less likely to spontaneously combust!

[Sad555]

If your talking about the FIX ......DONT DO IT

[pinkpanther]

2 hours ago, Sad555 said:

If your talking about the FIX ......DONT DO IT

Been there, done it and lived to regret it

 

Now remapped and much happier as a result



[Sad555]

Glad the remap worked for you,I thought that once it had the FIX it was f##ked for ever