262.5bhp & 410.2 NM stock and 305.2 and 467.6 NM after.

 

As mine is DSG they canny run full throttle so Ben @ AMD reckons once the DSG box has been mapped and run full throttle, reality will be around 315-320bhp.

 

So overall, happy boy here. 

 

Scorpion cat cat back next week and then downpipe and stage 2 later in the year.

262bhp stock? 

 

I wonder how much of that is genuine and how much is optimistic dyno calibration? 

 

Edit - a quick look Google around suggests AMDs dyno has a bit of a reputation for being on the generous side, or 'customer happy' as I saw one person describe it 

 

Decent enough gains regardless and a nice looking torque curve, an extra 45bhp (or predicted 60bhp) isn't to be sniffed at, whether it started from 245 or 262...

 

Edited 3 January, 20197 yr by Kenai

1 hour ago, Kenai said:

262bhp stock? 

 

I wonder how much of that is genuine and how much is optimistic dyno calibration? 

Had roughly same output at Surrey Rolling Road (Farnborough) with 263bhp being pushed out of my Pre-FL 230. Was running stock with an APR c/f induction kit, and BP Ultimate fuel. Probably less than 260, but definitely more than the 'suggested' output from Skoda, given decent fuel quality, air pressure and all that jazz.

3 hours ago, Kenai said:

262bhp stock? 

 

I wonder how much of that is genuine and how much is optimistic dyno calibration? 

 

Edit - a quick look Google around suggests AMDs dyno has a bit of a reputation for being on the generous side, or 'customer happy' as I saw one person describe it 

 

Decent enough gains regardless and a nice looking torque curve, an extra 45bhp (or predicted 60bhp) isn't to be sniffed at, whether it started from 245 or 262...

 

Hmmmm my 245 ran 252.9bhp stock software, Revo sports filter & 99 Ron momentum fuel at JKM Portsmouth know as the heartbreak rollers cos they're damn accurate. AMD could be running 10 high & yeah @Ads230 could be right about SSR maybe running high too maybe, not as much as 10 though.

 

Hope @Chris245 you take note to change up between 5 & 5-1/2k revs, chasing that red line just slows you down matey, nice mods all the same

I take all dunno figures with a pinch of salt, all subjective on the day and totally different what what you’ll ‘actually’ achieve in real world on the road....all just a guideline.

 

The car drives so much better and is so eager to get up and go. In gear and midrange acceleration is massively improved.

 

Also fuel economy seems to be up based on the onboard computer, easily achieving over 44mpg on the run back.

 

@themanwithnoaim, yes noted ref changing up around 5,500rmp, you can feel the power tailing off after this.

To really understand the best shift point you need to know the gear ratios, as the maximum acceleration is derived from having the maximum available wheel torque.

 

What you want to aim for is the point at which the wheel torque in the gear you're changing to (which will hopefully be on an upward trend) is equal to the wheel torque in your current gear (which will likely be on a downward trend). This won't necessarily be the same rpm in every gear as different ratios give different torque multiplication. 

 

As an example without specific numbers but the shift from 1st to 2nd is likely to be better done at very high rpm because the massive difference in ratios mean its unlikely that 2nd gear will provide equal or better wheel torque at any comparative shift rpm. 

 

Engineering Explained on YouTube made a good video explaining the principles but using an S2000 as an example. 

 

If we have the ratios of the DQ380 and the final drive it's relatively simple to make a spreadsheet/graph of torque that'd identify the best rpms at each gear based on the dyno plot but as yet I can't find any info on these. 

13 hours ago, Kenai said:

To really understand the best shift point you need to know the gear ratios, as the maximum acceleration is derived from having the maximum available wheel torque.

 

What you want to aim for is the point at which the wheel torque in the gear you're changing to (which will hopefully be on an upward trend) is equal to the wheel torque in your current gear (which will likely be on a downward trend). This won't necessarily be the same rpm in every gear as different ratios give different torque multiplication. 

 

As an example without specific numbers but the shift from 1st to 2nd is likely to be better done at very high rpm because the massive difference in ratios mean its unlikely that 2nd gear will provide equal or better wheel torque at any comparative shift rpm. 

 

Engineering Explained on YouTube made a good video explaining the principles but using an S2000 as an example. 

 

If we have the ratios of the DQ380 and the final drive it's relatively simple to make a spreadsheet/graph of torque that'd identify the best rpms at each gear based on the dyno plot but as yet I can't find any info on these. 

 

If you have a car with the DQ380 transmission it's not to difficult to work out the ratios. 

 

For each gear; get the vehicle speed for a few diifferent RPM values say 2k, 3k and 4k.

 

Then you just need the rolling circumference of the wheel and the final drive and you can work out the ratios. 

 

Here is the equation I used when I made a gear display for my old Fiesta:

#define WHEEL_DIAMETER  (float)23.66    //Working in inches
#define FINAL_DRIVE     (float)4.07     //This is the ratio of the differential.
#define RPM_CONST       (float)336.13   //63360 inches per mile / (60 minutes per hour x Pi)

  
float fGearRatio = ((float)ui32RPM/((float)ui32VehSpd * FINAL_DRIVE * RPM_CONST)) * WHEEL_DIAMETER;

 

Edited 4 January, 20197 yr by ian_feel_keepin_it_reel

DQ381 on the vRS245

14 hours ago, themanwithnoaim said:

Hmmmm my 245 ran 252.9bhp stock software, Revo sports filter & 99 Ron momentum fuel at JKM Portsmouth know as the heartbreak rollers cos they're damn accurate. 

 

Any rollers with that reputation in Scotland?

 

Reason I ask is my graph is in WHP according to the mapper, but nobody ever believes the figures he reckons he got out my car, he does have a reputation for getting the most from vehicles though, everyone I know with Evos heads there. I doubt the figures myself, too. It would just be nice to know exactly how much I've got, I'm not bothered what they come out as, as it's fun to drive regardless.

 

 

Edited 4 January, 20197 yr by Saints92

18 hours ago, Chris245 said:

262.5bhp & 410.2 NM stock and 305.2 and 467.6 NM after.

 

As mine is DSG they canny run full throttle so Ben @ AMD reckons once the DSG box has been mapped and run full throttle, reality will be around 315-320bhp.

 

So overall, happy boy here. 

 

Scorpion cat cat back next week and then downpipe and stage 2 later in the year.

Hi Chris well done on a good choice for the remap. Everyone has ignored the FACTS that your 245 isn't standard as you have the Ramair intake and elbow which will increase the amount of air going into the engine. This explains the extra 14bhp and extra 10NM you achieved compared to my run on the same rollers plus it was slightly warmer last March which can affect rolling road figures. Even though my car was completely standard when it had the stage 1 map there at AmD it produced very similar figures to your car at 302bhp at 5,500rpm and 467NM at 2,700rpm. Also as someone already stated best to change up at around 5,500rpm as power tails off between there and the 7,000rpm redline. Not surprised your economy has improved still getting 44-46mpg even at stage 2. ENJOY.

1 hour ago, shyVRS245 said:

Hi Chris well done on a good choice for the remap. Everyone has ignored the FACTS that your 245 isn't standard as you have the Ramair intake and elbow which will increase the amount of air going into the engine. This explains the extra 14bhp and extra 10NM you achieved compared to my run on the same rollers plus it was slightly warmer last March which can affect rolling road figures. Even though my car was completely standard when it had the stage 1 map there at AmD it produced very similar figures to your car at 302bhp at 5,500rpm and 467NM at 2,700rpm. Also as someone already stated best to change up at around 5,500rpm as power tails off between there and the 7,000rpm redline. Not surprised your economy has improved still getting 44-46mpg even at stage 2. ENJOY.

 

This is very true so slightly misleading when it says stock car as its not quite. I was expecting somewhere between 300-320bhp as per what Ben @ AmD has said and as above, as the DGS is not mapped he cannot use full throttle as it wants to kick down so his estimate is 315-320 as it stands today....but that's just on one dyno and on the day, could be different tomorrow and to me they are only ever a guide figure, its all about how it is on the road.

14 minutes ago, Chris245 said:

 

This is very true so slightly misleading when it says stock car as its not quite. I was expecting somewhere between 300-320bhp as per what Ben @ AmD has said and as above, as the DGS is not mapped he cannot use full throttle as it wants to kick down so his estimate is 315-320 as it stands today....but that's just on one dyno and on the day, could be different tomorrow and to me they are only ever a guide figure, its all about how it is on the road.

Also demonstrates that the 2 Ramair components give more of a benefit to a standard car than stage 1 as you only gained 3bhp over my stock car and same 467NM of torque which shows standard induction system is pretty good. NOAIM also realised this when he replaced his standard induction system with an aftermarket item and actually saw his power drop from 290 to 287bhp using a DTUK tuning box. He also used the same rolling road both times in Portsmouth for accuracy purposes. When you go stage 2 you can expect between 330-340bhp.

2 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Also demonstrates that the 2 Ramair components give more of a benefit to a standard car than stage 1 as you only gained 3bhp over my stock car and same 467NM of torque which shows standard induction system is pretty good. NOAIM also realised this when he replaced his standard induction system with an aftermarket item and actually saw his power drop from 290 to 287bhp using a DTUK tuning box. He also used the same rolling road both times in Portsmouth for accuracy purposes. When you go stage 2 you can expect between 330-340bhp.

 

Yeah its all subjective. Any form of improved intake will help a bit but not much. I only ever expect, maybe at best a few bhp increase as really they don't make that much difference performance wise, but do look and sound decent.

On the Evo's the best mod for intake was just to drill the standard air box and add a panel filter, cones were totally pointless as the engine bays got so so hot your best off with the standard box.

5 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

NOAIM also realised this when he replaced his standard induction system with an aftermarket item and actually saw his power drop from 290 to 287bhp using a DTUK tuning box. He also used the same rolling road both times in Portsmouth for accuracy purposes.

Twas also running V Power 2nd time around compared to Tesco's Momentum on the 1st run.

 

I'm not actually sure I buy into the V Power is best argument, there just might be too many cleaning agents to get the full power, anyways the Revo Air intake is off now & an R600 installed complete with turbo muffler delete & revised DTUK software with Bluetooth connectivity.

 

So hoping for a bit more, @Chris245 you can try a run at JKM with all in October/November we normally go. Are popping down to the meet Tuesday night ?

18 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

Twas also running V Power 2nd time around compared to Tesco's Momentum on the 1st run.

 

I'm not actually sure I buy into the V Power is best argument, there just might be too many cleaning agents to get the full power, anyways the Revo Air intake is off now & an R600 installed complete with turbo muffler delete & revised DTUK software with Bluetooth connectivity.

 

So hoping for a bit more, @Chris245 you can try a run at JKM with all in October/November we normally go. Are popping down to the meet Tuesday night ?

 

I always run Tesco 99 as Tesco is just around the corner from me......plus its only £1.21 p/ltr at the moment!! 

 

Always happy to do a day out down at JKM or something. If Oct/Nov I'll have stage 2 by then so will be totally different. As said before, always subjective these results. @themanwithnoaim  Might try and get down on Tues, what time does it all kick off?? I might not be allowed as I'm in Amsterdam overnight on Wednesday and the wife might take um-bridge 

5 minutes ago, Chris245 said:

 

I always run Tesco 99 as Tesco is just around the corner from me......plus its only £1.21 p/ltr at the moment!! 

 

Always happy to do a day out down at JKM or something. If Oct/Nov I'll have stage 2 by then so will be totally different. As said before, always subjective these results. @themanwithnoaim  Might try and get down on Tues, what time does it all kick off?? I might not be allowed as I'm in Amsterdam overnight on Wednesday and the wife might take um-bridge 

7 till 9ish, can't see it being late as it ain't gonna be a warm one

38 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

 

I'm not actually sure I buy into the V Power is best argument, there just might be too many cleaning agents to get the full power, anyways the Revo Air intake is off now & an R600 installed complete with turbo muffler delete & revised DTUK software with Bluetooth connectivity.

 

 

There was a 5th gear test somewhere I watched/ read that tried the higher Ron rated fuels ..... they Dyno ran them on the same car draining the fuel systems in between).  Vpower came in top with (iirc 5bhp increase over standard fuel), T99 came in 2nd and I think BP Ultimate or Esso equivalent was 3rd.

18 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

7 till 9ish, can't see it being late as it ain't gonna be a warm one

@themanwithnoaim, gonna struggle as kids bedtime is 7pm and not usually done till 7.30, then a good 40min run down to Meon, just don't think time will allow to be honest, but shame.

21 minutes ago, Chris245 said:

@themanwithnoaim, gonna struggle as kids bedtime is 7pm and not usually done till 7.30, then a good 40min run down to Meon, just don't think time will allow to be honest, but shame.

No worries, as requested I'll keep tagging you in on the meet threads, usually the 1st Tuesday of the month but, I moved it back this month as I wouldn't have been sober enough to drink New Year's day even, in the evening!!!!

Is using 99Ron actually recommended then, for non mapped engines?

9 minutes ago, BlockABoots said:

Is using 99Ron actually recommended then, for non mapped engines?

NO the minmum recommended is regular 95 octane but using 99 will give an extra 6 or 7bhp and probably 20-30NM of torque which you may not notice. The more expensive fuel only really benefits mapped cars as you can see demonstrated on the figures from Chris245's car.

Actually it was and is recommended by VW, but 98 ron which is not sold in the UK so 97 min or 99 it will be.

But then Skoda are not bothering about any lower emissions.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel

 

Was going to say, since owning my vRS for the last 4 months ive only ever put standard fuel in it

I would think too if they up the torque limiters In The box you’ll see that dip in torque rise gently then drop gently. Had my diesel superb 190bhp 4x4 mapped at big fish tuning up here in the north east the other day and the torque curve was fairly flat for about 2k revs until they mapped the dsg then it went up and peaked instead of plateauing.