Unfortunately I'm now doing a lot of cold starts and short journeys in my VRS (petrol, TSI).

 

I wondered if there is a recommendation for an oil for this situation?

 

The water is barely at temperature by the time I get to work, so I guess the oil will still be pretty cold.

 

Cheers

Edited 25 January, 20197 yr by ajm83

4 hours ago, ajm83 said:

Unfortunately I'm now doing a lot of cold starts and short journeys in my VRS (petrol, TSI).

 

I wondered if there is a recommendation for an oil for this situation?

 

The water is barely at temperature by the time I get to work, so I guess the oil will still be pretty cold.

 

Cheers

My car does short journeys (3 miles to work, 3 miles home, 10-15 minutes each way) so i switch from 5/30 to 5/40 grade oil. the 5/30 is long life oil so is ideal fro vehicle's doing about 20,000 miles a year, where as our's don't even do 10,000 a year so no need for long life.

 

The 5-30 bit is the viscosity of the oil when hot and cold, the oil being at thickest when cold and thinist when hot, both 5/30 and 5/40- are perfect for our weather conditions, but for short journey TSI engines the 5/40 is best as using the long life oil will gum the piston rings up and cause damage (known fault on the 1.8 and 2.0 TSi) it must meet the VW 502 requirements though.

 

If you car starts using (burning) lots of oil then damage may have occured and the only remedy is a rebuild or new engine

Edited 25 January, 20197 yr by Ju1ian1001

Long Life oil and lots of short lived TSI's.

 

So if doing Fixed Servicing with a TSI and IMO you should then Long Life Oil is not required.  So you are as well not using the crap.  IMO.

 

So 5w 40 FS to VW 502.   

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes

 

...................................... 

Only concerns cars from VW since about a year back.

So OT.

TDI owners have no choice they need VW504 / 507,   

and now VW Group are coming with VW508/509.  We will see how well that goes in the next few years.  0w 20 FS LL.......  Good for them to get through the WLTP, lets see longevity of engines.

Edited 25 January, 20197 yr by Skoffski

Firstly you should always stick to oil that is VAG certified for your engine and service regime. That is the minimum you should demand from your oil.

 

Other than that, finding the certified oil with the highest viscosity index (stability of viscosity at differing temperatures) and with minimal additives (additives tend to attract moisture) may help a little. Oil companies should have data sheets available containing this information.

That oil is VW502  or VW504 / 507 then.

 

So 5w 40 FS to VW502 is perfect.   

 Issue with VW is they do not give a damn if Euro 5 TSI's were oil burners, they never changed their Recommendations. The fact German Manufactured Engines are about the least 

reliable engines out of manufacturers warranty needs considering.

 

Brands are of little importance.

French Manufacturers recommend Total.

Japanese what ever.      Castol / Quantum is nothing special, if it was maybe the Japanese Engine Builders or the South Korean would recommend that brand.

 

Short trips with the engine not achieving NOT, I'd use 5w30 as you don't want to have to wait for the 40 weight to heat up and get runny.  

 

I'd use the 504/507 spec LL oil but on fixed service intervals.  The price difference isn't big enough to worry about these days and it's a better oil.

5 hours ago, brad1.8T said:

Short trips with the engine not achieving NOT, I'd use 5w30 as you don't want to have to wait for the 40 weight to heat up and get runny.  

 

I'd use the 504/507 spec LL oil but on fixed service intervals.  The price difference isn't big enough to worry about these days and it's a better oil.

As said 5/30 on short journeys in the british climite is no good for TSI, it gums up the rings and causes cylinder wall damage, 5/40 does not and hence is better for short journey/fixed interval.

@brad1.8T   Price difference over using VW502 rather then VW504/507 or VW508/509 has nothing to do with it.

 

I would pay happily twice as much for non Long Life oil for a TSI i own.   If you want to look at viscosity of oils, the 5w 30 & now 0w 20 FS LL is pretty rubbish when the Engine & Oil temps are high IMO.

VW have gone VW508 / 509 to get the results in WLTP,  not for the benefit of owners with 'keepers' but then as to fuel consumption maybe there is a saving.

Personally i would rather buy 100 extra litres of petrol over 5 years than paying £5,000 to replace a TSI engine.

My recommendation would be not to worry at all about which of 502 or 504 grade oil you use, but simply change it more often (maybe more often than annually).  The problem is with it not getting hot, condensation will tend to build up. Emulsion doesn't work as well as oil as a lubricant.

Do you do any longer runs? That would help to boil off any water in the sump.

Simply change the oil often, if you change it really often, you dont need to change the oil filter each time, they can go at least 10k/1yr.

 

Dump the oil with any built up contaminants, mainly fuel dilution , water and blowby products, pour in fresh oil, your engine will be grateful and clean.

Thanks for the advice everyone. 

 

35 minutes ago, Wino said:

Do you do any longer runs? That would help to boil off any water in the sump.

 

Yes I do try and do a long run and some harder driving on occasion. 

 

6 minutes ago, xman said:

Simply change the oil often, if you change it really often, you dont need to change the oil filter each time, they can go at least 10k/1yr.

 

Would one of those dipstick oil extractor things be suitable?  Don't have space to work under the car at the moment. 

Edited 29 January, 20197 yr by ajm83

Yes.

The aim is simply to keep the proportion of contaminants and unwanted chemicals in the oil low. Doesn't matter if you only extract 90%, you will have reduced the contamination by that amount.

 

There is no magic oil that will go the time/distance irregardless of your driving profile which in your case is classed as severe.

 

 

Edited 29 January, 20197 yr by xman

A suction pump to extract oil is perfect.

But IMO then removing the sump plug to drain the last of the oil and fitting a new sump plug is simply clever as well.

But if going for a 'quicky'  then just The Pump will do.,

I've ordered 5L of Helix Ultra in 5w40.  Seems like a good oil from the reviews, but I figured even if it's not the very best, it will be better than what's in there (whatever that is - all I know is that it's jet black).

My boss is lending me his old race car's oil vac which he reckons will do the job, so the whole thing should come in under £25.

 

Thanks again everyone for the help.

 

BTW ECP has a 55% off deal on their website at the moment. SALE55 is the code.

6 hours ago, xman said:

Simply change the oil often, if you change it really often, you dont need to change the oil filter each time, they can go at least 10k/1yr.

 

Dump the oil with any built up contaminants, mainly fuel dilution , water and blowby products, pour in fresh oil, your engine will be grateful and clean.

I do agree changing the oil more is a very good thing, but not changing the filter every time is a big NO NO for me, i was taught many moons ago at college when learning to be a technicain (mechanic in my day (22 years ago)) the you change the filter each time you change the oil regardless of millage or time, and for £10-£20 pounds for good quality filter you can't go wrong.

 

I'd rather spend £30-£45 for decent oil and £10-£20 for a filter each oil change the scrimp on something and having to splash out £1000's on a new or rebuilt/recon engine.

Oil filters catch debris and not contamination.

 

Please yourself, its good enough for Honda to change filters every 2nd Oil change and it doesn't seem to harm our two 1.2tsi which now have 230,000 miles between them. Oil every 8500 miles, filters every 17,000 miles, will let you know when they disintegrate, but you may be waiting a long time.

 

Not many people, if any in this forum have had engine failure due to blocked oil filters. And modern filter are made from synthetic materials and not the paper junk of many years ago.

 

Those that bought 1.4 Cave/Cthe or EA888 Gen1/2 engines were always going to end with a heap of scrap as the engine designs were carp.

 

Edited 29 January, 20197 yr by xman

I think i'd be more likely to **** the engine up by not fitting the replacement filter properly than by the filter clogging up

16 minutes ago, xman said:

Oil filters catch debris and not contamination.

 

Please yourself, its good enough for Honda to change filters every 2nd Oil change and it doesn't seem to harm our 1.2tsi which now have 230,000 miles between them. Oil every 8500 miles, filters every 17,000 miles, will let you know when they disintegrate, but you may be waiting a long time.

 

Not many people, if any in this forum have had engine failure due to blocked oil filters. And modern filter are made from synthetic materials and not the paper junk of many years ago.

 

Those that bought 1.4 Cave/cthe or 1.8 Gen1/2 engines were always going to end with a heap of scrap as the engine design was carp.

 

Problem is it's normally the debris that do the damage, as you yourself said filters catch the debris, when the block a pressure release valve opens which bypasses the filter allowing oil circulation, that when the debris and carbon build up in the oil does the damage.

 

Since i change my oil and filter yearly/ every 5000 miles it's living an ideal life. 

 

we all know the gen 1/2 TSI design is flawed, but they can be a very very good engine if maintained to a high standard which mine is.

 

This year mine will be getting oil and oil filter changed, air filter changed (also done every year with me as they cost pennys) and will probably change the spark plugs and coil packs as well depending on cost.

2 minutes ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

Problem is it's normally the debris that do the damage, as you yourself said filters catch the debris, when the block a pressure release valve opens which bypasses the filter allowing oil circulation, that when the debris and carbon build up in the oil does the damage.

  

 

I've been working on vehicles for 45 years and yet to experience this on vehicles dating from the early 60's, my father did tell me that it happened to his Hillman before I was born.

 

Its one thing to be taught something, its another to spend a whole lifetime presumably increasing knowledge and experience without ever questioning some of the things we were "taught" by people who were themselves "taught" and never questioned it.

 

Here in France something taught is believed with a religious fervour for life and never questioned, the teacher is always right, there is only one right answer to a question even if its wrong.

 

I did block the tiny gauze oil strainer on my Honda SS50 moped by using too much gold hylomar on the engine cases but have yet to experience a blocked oil filter and I have serviced scores of vehicles that had been neglected for years, I have however more than once sprung a leak from incorrectly fitted filters.

2 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I've been working on vehicles for 45 years and yet to experience this on vehicles dating from the early 60's, my father did tell me that it happened to his Hillman before I was born.

 

Its one thing to be taught something, its another to spend a whole lifetime presumably increasing knowledge and experience without ever questioning some of the things we were "taught" by people who were themselves "taught" and never questioned it.

 

Here in France something taught is believed with a religious fervour for life and never questioned, the teacher is always right, there is only one right answer to a question even if its wrong.

 

I did block the tiny gauze oil strainer on my Honda SS50 moped by using too much gold hylomar on the engine cases but have yet to experience a blocked oil filter and I have serviced scores of vehicles that had been neglected for years, I have however more than once sprung a leak from incorrectly fitted filters.

I have had one "blocked" filter issue in my 22 years in the trade, it was on a citroen/peugeot HDI engine and the first time i had changed the oil filter on one, i simply put the filter in wrong, the filter element has a nipple on which fit's into a notch in the filter housings base plate, if not fitted correctly it blocks the oil feed into the filter and the engine does not get any oil pressure, only ever done that once, they also love to loose oil if you don't fit the sealing ring correctly, done that a fair few times and what a mess it makes.

Totally agree with changing the oil more often. I worked in the fuel and oil additives industry a few years ago and during my training, I specifically asked if engine oils could cope with many cold starts and short runs. The answer was that the issue hadn’t been addressed yet.

If you can I would try to give your car a good run, once a week or so, to get it fully warmed up. In addition to additional oil changes

Mark