1.2 HTP cam chain failure @ 54K.

[PSQ]

Hello all,

 

As per thread title the cam chain would appear to have failed on daughters 1.2htp Fabia at startup. Apparently it was not rattling prior to failure, and there was no crunching when it let go.

 

Firstly I'm not looking for any help from Skoda on this, it was a private purchase 11 months ago, car serviced by local non franchise garage at that point. I am looking for a pragmatic solution to get this car back on the road...

2nd: the bottom end is turning over fine, but there is no noise whatsoever from the top end, very little pressure from the exhaust on turnover, so probably no compression at all. With the 1.2 is there 'interference' between the valves and pistons when the timing chain fails or not? If so it's a replacement engine, which brings me on to...

3- the later cam belt 1.2 engines, do they retrofit into the 2010 shape fabia without too many problems?

 

TIA,

Joe.  

[xman]

Very unusual, must have not had oil changes for a long long long time as these engines are normally bomb proof

 

Dont assume automatically the chain has gone, inspect it first, some VAG cars (not that I am aware the HTP) have had camshafts break.

 

25 minutes ago, PSQ said:

 

3- the later cam belt 1.2 engines, do they retrofit into the 2010 shape fabia without too many problems?

 

TIA,

Joe.  

 

Not possible the cambelt engines are EA211 MQB layout, the inlet manifold and exhaust are on opposite sides to the EA111

 

Different ECU, wiring harnesses, cat/exhaust, sensors, radiator even battery layout washer reservoir etc etc is different, engine mounts are different in different places

 

Impossible physically

 

25 minutes ago, PSQ said:

 

2nd: the bottom end is turning over fine, but there is no noise whatsoever from the top end, very little pressure from the exhaust on turnover, so probably no compression at all. With the 1.2 is there 'interference' between the valves and pistons when the timing chain fails or not?

 

 

Is it the 12v twin cam 70ps, 12v twin cam 60ps or the older 6v single cam 60ps (with the ignition coils at the front of the engine) 

[PSQ]

Thanks Xman,

That was a nice concise reply.

 

According to the V5C it's a Fabia Sport HTP 12v, 1198cc, registered on 9th March 2010, engine number is CGP052032 if it helps. 

Parkers list the 1.2L 5 door Sport as 68 hp, but the V5 gives CO2 as 140g/km, which doesn't tie in with the 68hp version.

 

Sorry to sound like an utter newbie,  I'm fairly new to VAG stuff. In a former life I used to build hillclimb, race and tarmac rally CRX's and Civics and would swap engines and gearboxes for fun.

I'll have a look at the top end in the morning, and if it's toast I have a decent breakers not far away.

 

[Edited]

 

JP. 

Edited 27 January, 2019 by PSQ

[xman]

So 70ps/68bhp/51kw twin cam engine probably CPGA engine. IIRC, sometimes damage can be limited to punched through hydraulic tappets, which can be replaced.

 

https://www.skoda-parts.com/catalog/fabia-2/spare-parts/engine-2.html

 

http://www.oemepc.com/skoda/part_single/catalog/sk/markt/CZ/modell/FAB/year/2010/drive_standart/608/hg_ug/103/subcategory/103040/part_id/2563608/lang/e

 

http://www.oemepc.com/skoda/part_single/catalog/sk/markt/CZ/modell/FAB/year/2010/drive_standart/608/hg_ug/109/subcategory/109012/part_id/2546958/lang/e

 

[PSQ]

Thanks for that, I'll let you know how we get on.

[PSQ]

Update (for those that pass this way in the future):

 

Having watched a Youtube video of someone doing a timing chain on a CGPA 1.2 in a Polo (looked like a Royal PITA) I decided to pass the job on to my local garage (non franchise). They've taken the head off and confirmed that the cam chain has slipped on the intake cam sprocket, bending all 6 intake valves but hopefully not damaging the valve guides. I've taken the head to a tame engine builder and they've ordered 6 new valves (IRO £8 each), they'll skim the head and lap the new valves, supply a new 'superior' cam chain kit (£106), supply top end gasket set, supply new rockers on a sale or return basis (old ones look OK), etc; should have it back on Monday PM.

 

Out of interest, I called the local VW / Skoda garage and they said that "it's most unusual, we've only seen two timing chain failures on Polo's and Fabias in the last 10 years", but the engine builders said it was the 2nd VAG 1.2L timing chain failure they'd seen *this week*, so someones talking BS. 

 

Bruce the engine builder also said that we were lucky it failed at start up, as it has just nipped the valves enough to bend  the stems. "When they go on the motorway it can break the valves off, and they then destroy the pistons and cylinder head".

 

Next question: mechanic wonders if the timing chain can be replaced without taking off the sump, as the oil pump drive chain needs to come off before the timing chain can be taken off the lower sprocket. So I guess I'm asking if the oil pump drive chain comes off just by sliding off it's top (drive) sprocket with the sump in place? Should the oil pump chain be replaced at the same time? 

 

TIA. 

 

 

[lello7]

Is the car running as it should now:-)?

How much did they have to change:')

[fartfield]

I`ve just had the same with the wife`s 2014 Fabia. Dealer said they had only seen two in 10 years, machine shop says they see two or three every week.

[sepulchrave]

5 minutes ago, fartfield said:

I`ve just had the same with the wife`s 2014 Fabia. Dealer said they had only seen two in 10 years, machine shop says they see two or three every week.

 

One of them is lying.

[fartfield]

Maybe, but with 74000 on the clock and full service history you have to wonder which one.

[xman]

26 minutes ago, fartfield said:

I`ve just had the same with the wife`s 2014 Fabia. Dealer said they had only seen two in 10 years, machine shop says they see two or three every week.

 

But which engine are you/they talking about? 

 

IME

 

1.2 HTP 3 cylinder engines (no turbo) are very robust

 

1.2 tsi 4 cylinder engines (turbo) have known issue with camchains

 

 

[sepulchrave]

12 minutes ago, fartfield said:

Maybe, but with 74000 on the clock and full service history you have to wonder which one.

 

I'll give you a clue, it's the dealer.