Cruise Control question

[Fitzwilliam]

Is the last photo of the ballast weights ? are they supposed to be over to one side or have some been removed ?

[Ootohere]

That is how Right Hand Drive cars come from the Factory.   You want to feel the weight of these 3 beauts.

 

Every manufacturer is saving weight, less water based paint, thinner glass, less insulation etc and VW have Skoda sandbag a car to have the C02 g/km the same as the estate and higher than the Sister car from VW. & a higher VED by 1 band.

 

They designed, produced and manufactured weights.  Like they had to before with mis-handling Audi TT's.

 

The difference is these are not required, do not improve handling and certainly not braking.

Hanging weights at the very rear most part of a car is an odd one.   Nobody has ever thought, lets make my Fabia Monte Carlo diesel handle better i will put extra weight on off 

a Mk2 Fabia vRS. 

The Polo GTI 1.4 TSI got the battery in the boot and no Spare Tyre as standard.

Edited 1 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[Fitzwilliam]

I wonder if removing them would invalidate your insurance ?  How much do they weigh ? I suppose having them to the near side would balance the weight to some degree with just the driver onboard but with a passenger it would be unbalanced particularly under heavy braking. I wonder if LHD versions have the weights on the other side.

[Ootohere]

25KG.

Modifying your car from standard requires you to declare to your Insurer the mods.  Somehow you are supposed to know what you buy as you buy it.

 

You just bought a used car and you can not see behind the bumper, neither could someone buying a new one, so who would know what is there or not.

Skoda never listed that parts.

A Crash Investigator or Insurance Loss Adjuster should be looking seeing.  Then saying when they were there and who was responsible for removing.

They will need to know obviously the car left the factory with them fitted....

 

I have always wondered if a Dealership could supply 3 brand new sets of weights and how much they would be, including postage.

 

The hatch and estate can not tow because Skoda never gave it official Towing weights.

The Polo, Ibiza and A1 can have tow bars for towing though.

 

An Insurance Assessor might have wanted to see this one with the bumper removed.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/460745-my-beautiful-vrs-has-been-hit-by-a-hospital-bus

 

Edited 1 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[Fitzwilliam]

Looking at the photo of the back end of the shunted car it looks like the weights reduced the damage to the near side of the bumper. Prior to having my Citigo I had a Rapid 1.2tsi Sport saloon and I had a towbar fitted the bulk of which replaced the crash bar, the Rapids crash bar was very lightweight and hollow, the tow bar actually strengthened the rear end and was a hell of a lot heavier, have to admit I never noticed any difference in the cars handling after the fitment.

Never towed with it, got it so I could use a tow ball mounted cycle carrier.

Edited 1 February, 2019 by Fitzwilliam

[AMD87]

1 hour ago, Skoffski said:

Nobody has ever thought, lets make my Fabia Monte Carlo diesel handle better i will put extra weight on off 

a Mk2 Fabia vRS. 

Cause they are heavy enough as it is at 1180kg  H&R rear anti roll bar sorts it out though. 

[UrbanPanzer]

7 hours ago, Fitzwilliam said:

I wonder if removing them would invalidate your insurance ?  How much do they weigh ? I suppose having them to the near side would balance the weight to some degree with just the driver onboard but with a passenger it would be unbalanced particularly under heavy braking. I wonder if LHD versions have the weights on the other side.

 

Thats why they are offset...but it is also likely the vehicle may be "right hand side" heavy when put together and unladen, so the weights square it up...... when there is a passenger, it does not matter as much as the whole vehicle has more weight on the rear evenly distributed.

 

It's interesting reading that "we" think they serve no purpose, manufacturers don't design something for nothing, the reason the Polo does not have them is because the battery is in the boot, so it does not need them. I would suggest that under heavy braking the rear end gets "light", so adding the weights also helps counteract this as the Fabia does sit "bum" high already which will be compounded under heavy braking.

 

Offcourse we will hear it makes no difference when removed, but I doubt very much that

 

A) people drive them to the extremes of the test driver during design / manufacture and

B ) you have no way of measuring it, "feel" is not enough as there is to many variables, and

C) if the vehicle has also been "lowered" and additional suspension mods fitted, it will again differ from a "standard" car, whether "better OR worse" is always open to opinions.

Edited 2 February, 2019 by UrbanPanzer

[Ootohere]

Funnily in the past 9 years there are people that have given the Fabia, Ibiza, A1 & Polo pretty extreme drives, and Fabia with or without weights.

Maybe as extreme as any Skoda Test Drivers during their R&D.

Some might even have had cars co-ck a wheel.

I know i have cocked a wheel occasionally. and braked hard.

I know what is dangerous, and that is the way some muppet engineered a Fabia Mk2 vRS hatch to go light at the front end.

F& fit as OEM 205/40 R 17 rather than 215/40 R 17 that the sister cars got.

 

http://topgear.com/car-news/fabia-vrs-extreme-drive

 

 

 

The Polo GTI had to have the Official Kerb Weight revised after launch but kept the lower Co2 g/km figure from 2010-2014.They gave the 5 door as being 25kg heavier than the 3 door, 

thry have that Type Approved to tow.

The Battery is not at the very rearmost corner. 

The Ibiza was heavier than the Fabia hatch and estate and had the same C02 g/km 2009,2011 then was discontinued and relaunched 2013 with a lower C02 g/km 

and was no lighter, still on 215/40 R 17's.  No rear weights.

The Audi A1 1.4 TFSI 195ps came in 3 or 5 door and with no rear weights and battery in th front.

 

What happened was VW Engineering by not allowing the cheapest and lightest of the 5 cars to have Officially lower emissions, fuel consumption, 0-62 mph or a higher top speed.

 

Lowering Springs were a dealer fit option.   VW could have just allowed Skoda to fit appropriate springs to the cars weight and length.

The Estate needed higher poundage springs anyway. It is 9 3/4" longer and heavier, and even with the Hatch Sandbagged is not lighter when you put one on a weigh bridge.

 

It takes a special kind of engineer to think or agree with bosses that a new Warm Hatch or Hot hatch should have weight added to improve handling or to make it safe rather than fit the correct dampers , springs and anti-roll bar for a few Euro. 

Or a Skoda Engineer that does what they are told by a VW Boss.

 

 

 

Skoda should have developed the car properly rather than big up records that the car set when it could have been better still.

 

Dunlop Sport Maxx.  As much as i loved them i did wreck a few and then when owners complained enough about 'Pulling to the left' Skoda approved warranty fitting the Pirelli Zero Nero with the stronger sidewalls even thought the Sport Maxx are XL marked.

 

 

 

Edited 2 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[Ootohere]

Those with Left Hand drive cars might be able to comment on the Ballast Weights and if removed or not.

 

In the UK with Roads with the cambers they have the driver is sitting on the offside at what ever weight they are.

I am twice the weight that Official Figures gave with a 60 kg driver.

The exhaust is on the Nearside on a Right hand drive car and a Left Hand drive car where the driver sits at that side.

 

A good test of acceleration and straight line or on track is do timing with the 19kg spare wheel / tool kit removed, 

and maybe with the weights and spare wheel removed.

 

When i had weights off i had 2 spare wheels in the boot anyway on 'Adventure Trips' to the great driving roads, and a trolley jack and spare High Octane Fuel.

Sometimes a passenger or 2.

 

Vorsprung durch technik.

Edited 2 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[UrbanPanzer]

The point is they are there for a reason, whether "we" like it or not, and who's idea it was and the thoughts behind it,  I fully expected a reply "saying" loads have removed them with no issues, but that does not make it right or wrong or whatever, there is simply as you have stated in your reply to many variables involved.

 

Comparing to other cars which don't have them, is really comparing apples with oranges, they maybe built on the same chassis and by the same "manufacturer", but they are all different in many other ways.

 

2 hours ago, Skoffski said:

What happened was VW Engineering by not allowing the cheapest and lightest of the 5 cars to have Officially lower emissions, fuel consumption, 0-62 mph or a higher top speed

 

I find this hard to believe and would need to see evidence of it, otherwise it's just hearsay / rumour, probably created by those asking "why is mine worse than or better than that when it's basically the same car"...............the Fabia was over £1500 cheaper new than the Polo and cheaper also than the seat, thats a lot of saving over time ref fuel consumption so I doubt adding weight was a way to combat this, thats my opinon anyway.

 

Most people are badge "snobs" as well and will buy the Polo because of the brand / badge and avoid the Skoda also because of the badge.

 

Skoda, VW or Seat or anyone else have to design the car to be "average" across the board, expected use and performance, just because they have powerful engines and an RS badge, they don't build them to be a track car because they would both be more expensive and they would sell even less of them as comfort, ride and everything else suffers, so you have to find a happy medium V a price bracket your aiming for in the market, in the same way an engine tune covers a broad range of use around the world, adding the weights "may" have been an easy solution / quick fix for a handling issue, but it was done to "improve" something.

Edited 2 February, 2019 by UrbanPanzer

[Ootohere]

So there was a Budget model Fabia vRS Hatch, and an estate.   The Estate longer and heavier and the 'money saving solution' was make the lighter Hatch supposedly 5 kg heavier than the estate, have buyers pay a VED band higher than necessary, and if the Co2 g/km in the real world as showed under EU testing have higher fuel consumption than the VW, Ibiza or A1. 

That is Bean Counter or VW Boss kidology rather than actually fitting the light hatchback with the correct suspension for its Unladen and Revenue Weight.

 

In Gods we might trust, in VW we question why things are done.  They have been at it for decades and finally they were found out.

2015/16 with 'Implausible / Irregular C02 g/km figures on Euro 6 petrols and diesels. some they revised the figures of and some they bought back or removed from sale.   That was VW's, Audi & SEAT vehicles.

 

Maybe now we can ignore warranties as SKODA did.  There were factory approved springs, then ones that owners fit.  There were were not factory approved anti rollbar or airbag suspension. But plenty fit these.  No factory approved stage 1 or stage 2 or red top coil upgrades. No bigger brakes. But SEAT did offer a factory upgrade on 2013,ibiza.   So what you do is insure a modified car and forget warranties. Declare the mods. Head lights, wheel spacers  etc. 

 

Edited 2 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[Furbytom]

On 01/02/2019 at 08:43, Skoffski said:

The recommended petrol is 98 ron even though they run on 95 ron because they must do.

 

The 1.4TSI twinchargers were developed to be 140, 150 & 160 PS before taken to 180ps.

 

You will see your self that the Octane does affect the RPM when the Twincharger is at its efficient engine temp.

Obviously the increased BHP or Torque happens at different points on the rev range.  Producing more power efficiently can affect how you an maintain speed while using less fuel.

 

Look at the Threads with Dyno Maps.

A good one is from @Furbytom & his CTHE standard on the Dyno.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/357839-fabia-vrs-estate-rolling-road-run

There are others in other threads. There are Dynos with the Blue Spark box on a CTHE, @VrsForever had one fitted and it gave very good results. Denso Plugs with a 0.6 gap.

 

The TMC Tuning Box or the Bluespark are good.

The 3 cable TMC not the 2 cable.

 

As too weather dependent, the Twinchargers love cooler air, and light moist rain, drizzle. That is when you get the best MPG on runs long enough to make up for the first higher consumption until the oil is up to temp.

Cooler roads have less grip / traction / friction if you are not on winter tyres.  Less energy used cooling oil if the oil is already at the efficient temperature.

 

The longer roof and supposed 5 kg lighter does not make the really heavier estate quicker, but the stronger rear springs 

and the front not going light makes a difference.

(Strange the heavier Polo & Ibiza with the 215/40 R 17 tyres and same engine and gearbox were said to be more efficient and quicker and were given a lower Co2 g/km, and when the Ibiza got the CTHE in 2013 Seat dropped its VED band.

 

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel

 

 

 

 

 

Pirelli Zero Nero next to Dunlop Sportmaxx both 205/40 R 17 and gave different reading on the speedo and on a V-Box and GPS.

& 0-62 or 0-100 mph.

 

@Skoffski are you able to read/reply to PMs?

[Fitzwilliam]

The video of the drag race between the VRS saloon and estate was interesting although when the presenter suggested the estate was faster as it was 5kg lighter it was laughable, more likely the guy driving the saloon was maybe a few stone heavier and perhaps it had a lot more fuel in the tank, the difference in aerodynamics would surely make very little difference until you reached pretty high speed, perhaps over 80mph. Tbh the difference wasn’t great.

Just as an aside my recently acquired VRS has now covered about 350 miles, in that time it appears to have used about 150mls of oil, so around 0.45 litres per 1000 miles, is this good, average or poor for a CAVE engine that’s done 55000 miles ?

Having said that where’s the best place to get reasonably priced C3 oil ?

Edited 12 February, 2019 by Fitzwilliam

[Ootohere]

The Difference is the front of the hatch goes light under acceleration, the Traction Control cuts power because of wheel spin.

Switch off the TC and the difference would be less or the hatch quicker if the same weight of driver , same tyres etc.

Remove the rear weights from the hatch and almost certainly quicker.

 

I highly recommend ASDA oil.

4 litres to VW 502 00/ 5w 40 FS.  Perfect, and just keep topping up with this if you are not going to drain the 5w 30 FS LL that is in and change the oil sooner than 10,000 miles since the last oil and filter change.

Or Comma, 5w 40 FS, Fuch, Mobile, Quantum or whatever.   Just stay away from 5w 30 FS LL and as well to avoid Castrol since VW recommend them. 

 

(For TDI's that require VW504/507 i use the ASDA Oil.)

Edited 13 February, 2019 by Skoffski