Views on mk4 VRS?

[Brackett]

The way the market is going, I reckon it'll get an increase in power (260?), but be kept behind the equivalent-engined Golf or Cupra, and be DSG only (no manual offered). 

 

What do you reckon? (and anyone know when they are going to announce it?). 

[TonyD]

I think it's more likely to be a hybrid vrs a bit like the Golf GTE but rather than 1.5 +electric using the 1.8 + electric drive for about 290bhp bearing in mind the e expectation that the next Golf R will be >400bhp and that the new Cupra R ST is 365bhp

[KevC_Derby]

vRS will be 18/24 months away. Expect Mk4 to be announced in Sept, available in Q1 2020 and vRS a year later. ****s up my plan to change in Feb 2020.

[shyVRS245]

I think after launching the Mk4 this autumn the Vrs will be shown at Geneva March 2020 and will be available Aug/Sep 2020. AS to power probably one of the Golf's old units with GPF. Could get 261bhp or the overboost engine which had 286bhp for 15 seconds acceleration.

[SkodaVRS1963]

I hope Skoda don't drop the ball in the same way that Ford have with their diesel Mk 4 ST.

 

I really wanted to go back to diesel but Ford have decided that their "premium" brand gets just a 187bhp offering FFS.

[ahenners]

3 hours ago, SkodaVRS1963 said:

I hope Skoda don't drop the ball in the same way that Ford have with their diesel Mk 4 ST.

 

I really wanted to go back to diesel but Ford have decided that their "premium" brand gets just a 187bhp offering FFS.

 

I wouldn't describe it as dropping the ball... Is there really much demand in the current anti-diesel climate for a 200ps+ diesel hatch? Who else is offering 200+ in a diesel in this segment? BMW are the only example I can think of recently and they dropped the 125d from the range - it was never a big seller.

 

The STDiesel was introduced for those that want the looks but lower running costs. Those who want the power buy the petrol ST and the expected 280ps caters nicely. Unless you do silly miles, or it's a company car then the petrol makes more sense anyway. Besides do you really want to tell people you have an STD 

 

I'd be very surprised if the MK4 Octavia VRS had a significant bump on diesel power. The last generation jump was only from 170 to 184ps. MK4 will likely be under 200ps still.

[SkodaVRS1963]

17 minutes ago, ahenners said:

 

I wouldn't describe it as dropping the ball... Is there really much demand in the current anti-diesel climate for a 200ps+ diesel hatch? Who else is offering 200+ in a diesel in this segment? BMW are the only example I can think of recently and they dropped the 125d from the range - it was never a big seller.

 

The STDiesel was introduced for those that want the looks but lower running costs. Those who want the power buy the petrol ST and the expected 280ps caters nicely. Unless you do silly miles, or it's a company car then the petrol makes more sense anyway. Besides do you really want to tell people you have an STD 

 

I'd be very surprised if the MK4 Octavia VRS had a significant bump on diesel power. The last generation jump was only from 170 to 184ps. MK4 will likely be under 200ps still.

 

But the whole point is that in the Ford hierarchy, the top of the pyramid belongs to the Mustang and below that the Focus RS.  But there is no current Focus RS (and won't be for another year at least) and so the ST adopts that mantle for the time being.

 

Irrespective, given that there is no Mustang diesel or RS diesel then the Focus ST diesel becomes the flagship model.

 

Except, the very boring S-Max (it's a people carrier FFS) in ST-Line guise gets the 2.0 Ford EcoBlue 237bhp 8 Speed Automatic??

 

So if I want to buy the best performing Ford diesel I don't buy the ST, I buy an S-Max?

 

Marketing shocker.  I imagine heads will be rolling when the chinless wonders at Ford see their sale figures this time next year.

[ahenners]

29 minutes ago, SkodaVRS1963 said:

 

But the whole point is that in the Ford hierarchy, the top of the pyramid belongs to the Mustang and below that the Focus RS.  But there is no current Focus RS (and won't be for another year at least) and so the ST adopts that mantle for the time being.

 

Irrespective, given that there is no Mustang diesel or RS diesel then the Focus ST diesel becomes the flagship model.

 

Except, the very boring S-Max (it's a people carrier FFS) in ST-Line guise gets the 2.0 Ford EcoBlue 237bhp 8 Speed Automatic??

 

So if I want to buy the best performing Ford diesel I don't buy the ST, I buy an S-Max?

 

Marketing shocker.  I imagine heads will be rolling when the chinless wonders at Ford see their sale figures this time next year.

 

Can any diesel really be considered a flagship? It's a compromise engine offered usually below the flagship engine in a particular model's range to satisfy fleet market buyers. Theses no Mustang diesel or Focus RS diesel because there's no real demand. They don't make cars that won't sell in volume. Does anyone really approach car buying by saying "I want to buy the best performing diesel a manufacturer offers" as the number one criteria in their search?

 

They offer a 1.5 turbo petrol with a similar output to the upcoming ST diesel. They even offer it in an ST Line blingy trim to cater for those who want the looks. This is exactly the sort of car that people are buying now instead of diesels in this segment. I suspect they'll sell loads of 1.5 turbo petrols compared to diesel STs.

Edited 17 March, 2019 by ahenners

[SkodaVRS1963]

14 minutes ago, ahenners said:

 

Can any diesel really be considered a flagship? It's a compromise engine offered usually below the flagship engine in a particular model's range to satisfy fleet market buyers. Theses no Mustang diesel or Focus RS diesel because there's no real demand. They don't make cars that won't sell in volume. Does anyone really approach car buying by saying "I want to buy the best performing diesel a manufacturer offers" as the number one criteria in their search?

 

The VW 240bhp bi-turbo diesel is, from about a dozen reviews I've watched online, widely regarded as the apex engine in the VW stable.

 

Every review you watch recommends it as peerless?

 

It's actually quicker from 0-62 than my Focus ST3 250bhp petrol.........and about 10mpg better.

[Ootohere]

^^^ 

They are using up the 240 PS bi-turbo before discontinuing production. Light Goods Vehicle / Commercial engines really.

VW stretch out things as long as they can since they have so much invested.  Motoring Journalists big up many things... That is business / publishing.

Hence Skoda get to use some in the Kodiaq vRS. Get some magazine / social media space.

 

They / VW Group wanted Petrol Carvelle with some go go and buyers really were not interested.

Edited 17 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[ahenners]

14 minutes ago, SkodaVRS1963 said:

 

The VW 240bhp bi-turbo diesel is, from about a dozen reviews I've watched online, widely regarded as the apex engine in the VW stable.

 

Every review you watch recommends it as peerless?

 

It's actually quicker from 0-62 than my Focus ST3 250bhp petrol.........and about 10mpg better.

 

And not fitted to a Focus segment hatch 

 

If we're going beyond this segment, why stop at 4 cylinder diesels? 6 cylinder diesels are fitted in larger non-Skoda VW Group models and are a world away from the Bi TDI 2.0 in refinement and performance.

 

BMW do a fantastic straight 6 diesel in their bigger cars. New Touareg is getting a V8 diesel. But I thought we were talking about Focus sized hatches and the best you can get across any manufacturer in this size of car is a 2.0 with roughly 190ps.

Edited 17 March, 2019 by ahenners

[SkodaVRS1963]

7 minutes ago, ahenners said:

 

And not fitted to a Focus segment hatch 

 Circular argument

 

If Ford can stick a 237bhp engine into a Chelsea tractor then they probably ought to consider putting something into their flagship diesel model.  187bhp FFS, you can get a bog standard Focus diesel with 150bhp.

 

10 minutes ago, ahenners said:

 But I thought we were talking about Focus sized hatches and the best you can get across any manufacturer is a 2.0 with roughly 190ps. 

 

Exactly; Ford had a chance to say "hey, we stand out in a segment where the best you'll get with other manufacturers is 190ps, look at our offering".

 

And they didn't.

 

Muppets.  My money goes elsewhere once this shambles of a Government sorts Brexit out.

[OliR]

After reading various articles about the forthcoming Mark 8 Golf the GTI is looking at being around  150 bhp so expect the vrs to be the same as they normally use the same engines.

[shyVRS245]

17 minutes ago, OliR said:

After reading various articles about the forthcoming Mark 8 Golf the GTI is looking at being around  150 bhp so expect the vrs to be the same as they normally use the same engines.

Are you sure you typed the right number?. That would put it around 1990 levels of poke.

[Ootohere]

Ford can produce Fiesta ST's with 200ps from a 1.5 3 cylinder petrol engine with cylinder deactivation, 

surely the biggest car manufacturers in the world the VW Group who already have 3 cylinder engines can produce 'Warm or Hot' family sized cars using these engines with hybrid technology. AWD & a bit of lightness and good handling would be 'Simply Clever'. 

[penguin17]

 

1 hour ago, Skoffski said:

Ford can produce Fiesta ST's with 200ps from a 1.5 3 cylinder petrol engine with cylinder deactivation, 

surely the biggest car manufacturers in the world the VW Group who already have 3 cylinder engines can produce 'Warm or Hot' family sized cars using these engines with hybrid technology. AWD & a bit of lightness and good handling would be 'Simply Clever'. 

Why on earth would they produce a car that people want and that would actually sell?  A successor to the Fabia vRS? Come on...everyone in their right minds is after an overpriced 2 tonne SUV with vRS badges and a soon to be deprecated BiTDI engine, that handles like Blenheim Palace.  

 

 

Edited 18 March, 2019 by penguin17

[OliR]

1 hour ago, shyVRS245 said:

Are you sure you typed the right number?. That would put it around 1990 levels of poke.

Haha yeah that would be a very backwards step, 250 bhp more like

[shyVRS245]

16 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

 

Why on earth would they produce a car that people want and that would actually sell?  A successor to the Fabia vRS? Come on...everyone in their right minds is after an overpriced 2 tonne SUV with vRS badges and a soon to be deprecated BiTDI engine, that handles like Blenheim Palace.  

 

 

More profit in a £43,000 SUV than a £20,000 warm hatch. Simple maths my boy.

[Ootohere]

300 Kodiaq vRS to the UK sold to Dealerships / VW UK, hardly profit making.

Gets Magazine and Social Media space though.

Lets see how much the 'Ex Management Kodiak vRS asking prices keep dropping...

 

Skoda needs to get it's Average C02 down across the range.

Sort out 1.5 TSI issues that VW landed them with. Get something to replace the Citigo, have these 10 new models etc, 

and have sales globally excluding the USA.

Sporty looks so show and not much go will be their mission.

Edited 18 March, 2019 by Skoffski

[penguin17]

Just now, shyVRS245 said:

More profit in a £43,000 SUV than a £20,000 warm hatch. Simple maths my boy.

Ah but 200 x 20000 is more than 50 x 43000.  Simple maths my boy 

[shyVRS245]

1 minute ago, penguin17 said:

Ah but 200 x 20000 is more than 50 x 43000.  Simple maths my boy 

Unfortunate fact is 1 in 3 of all new cars sold in Europe is an SUV. It's what the customers want unfortunately. Even SWMBO drives one.

[penguin17]

7 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Unfortunate fact is 1 in 3 of all new cars sold in Europe is an SUV. It's what the customers want unfortunately. Even SWMBO drives one.

But that means 2/3 people still have their self respect and/or their own imagination 

[shyVRS245]

1 minute ago, penguin17 said:

But that means 2/3 people still have their self respect and/or their own imagination 

If you had been driving that Superb a bit faster that salt wouldn't have been able to attach itself to your alloys.