Skoda Octavia low coolant warning and large repair bill

[BoxerBoy]

On 04/07/2019 at 11:55, BoxerBoy said:

 

I dropped the car off with the dealer this morning, after a face to face chat a couple of days ago.

There was no argument - the receptionist asked if “I’d had a warning light?” Yes!

 

No courtesy car needed as I wanted it loooked at sooner rather than later.

 

I received a phone call within 4 hours with a diagnosis blaming the water pump. None in stock, but they’re keeping the patient in overnight and hopefully it will be finished tomorrow with a clean bill of health.

 

Under 3 years old and 19,000 miles.

 

I love the car and am considering buying it back in October, but can I trust it now?

 

 

And today the car was brought home with a shiny new water pump. Hopefully good for another 19,000 miles.

 

Just one more example of cars - any cars I think - being built down to a price rather being built with durability and some old fashioned “Quality”. 

 

They’ve become Throw Away consumer products so I’m less tempted to buy one for long term ownership.

[melbury]

On 19/06/2019 at 20:56, logiclee said:

There is a silicon bag in the expansion tank that has been known to split and block the heater marix

Hello!  About silicon bag, what is the purpose of that and would it be possible to remove it ?

[oldgroaner]

Excellent news,  Boxer Boy! don't forget to ask what warranty now applies after the repair

Edited 6 July, 2019 by oldgroaner
forgot to use quote!

[oldgroaner]

14 hours ago, melbury said:

Hello!  About silicon bag, what is the purpose of that and would it be possible to remove it ?

There has been a problem with corrosion in the cooling system (see my earlier posts) which pollutes the coolant by leaching Silica from it, the bag is intended to replenish that loss and hopefully extend the life of the coolant .

It is hard not to see this as a bodge to ensure that failures occur after the Guarantee period has expired and the cost born by the car's owner as I was.

In reality the manufacture should have solved the problem before installing parts of questionable quality , or recalled the ones that failed in the field.

So in answer to your question do not remove the bag, there is a greater risk from the corrosion it is intended to prevent than from the unlikely and rare event of the bag bursting.

[oldgroaner]

I sent my letter of complaint to Skoda on the 27th of June

They have it seems decided not to respond and "Tough it out"

Which rather illustrates the sort of company I am dealing with and the indifference it has to Customer Care.
 

You would think after Dieselgate VAG would have learned their lesson

Perhaps they need another?😎

 

As Churchill said

"This is not the end, nor even perhaps the beginning of the end

But is is surely the end of the beginning.

OG

[oldgroaner]

I  have checked with the Motor Ombudsman and find that Skoda have eight weeks to resolve this complaint before I can involve them.

Very well, patience is a virtue.

Unless I decide to go to the small claims court instead, or simply write to the AA and Motoring Press.

Under the Consumer Protection act you have three years comeback on the supplier, and You have six years to take a claim to the small claims court for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and five years in Scotland. 

And since I have proof that this fault was a known one by the manufacturer,  to the extent that they are doping the coolant to delay failure , that is looking like the way to go if all else fails.

Edited 7 July, 2019 by oldgroaner
omissions

[melbury]

13 hours ago, oldgroaner said:

I  have checked with the Motor Ombudsman and find that Skoda have eight weeks to resolve this complaint before I can involve them.

Very well, patience is a virtue.

Unless I decide to go to the small claims court instead, or simply write to the AA and Motoring Press.

Under the Consumer Protection act you have three years comeback on the supplier, and You have six years to take a claim to the small claims court for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and five years in Scotland. 

And since I have proof that this fault was a known one by the manufacturer,  to the extent that they are doping the coolant to delay failure , that is looking like the way to go if all else fails.

Hello , Having read the comments about the bag of silica in the expansion tank I decided to have a look at my 17 plate Octavia.  I found no bag and  no indication of one, nothing  stamped on the tank. So it seems that the practice has been  ended a few years back.

[oldgroaner]

18 hours ago, melbury said:

Hello , Having read the comments about the bag of silica in the expansion tank I decided to have a look at my 17 plate Octavia.  I found no bag and  no indication of one, nothing  stamped on the tank. So it seems that the practice has been  ended a few years back.

Actually it hasn't.while my coolant loss was being checked I had a 2019 Octavia with both the marking  "Mit Silikat" and the bag in the header tank, and the replacement header tank fitted to my car has the label and the bag too.

Apparently sometimes it is there , and sometimes not.

I would advise  you to ask the dealer why yours is less the marking and the bag to avoid possible problems in the near future.

Better still ask Skoda directly.

[peterhardy]

On 02/07/2019 at 17:43, peterhardy said:

I would however always make sure that any problem I came across during my lease was properly addressed and resolved.  I will update with the dealer's response on monday.  Thanks!

 

Apologies for the delay in updating.  My car went in for service as arranged.  The service guy said straight away that they had had issues with a few cars with bags that had split and that some cars had the bag and others didn't.  He had no explanation for this.  They checked my coolant system and could find no leaks or reasons for the level going down. Indeed, the level has remained constant since I put just under a half pint in to bring the level up to between the min and max.  They've put a little more in and have just advised to keep an eye on it.  I made sure that the low coolant warning has been logged so there's a record of it in the case of any further issues.  I will report back if anything changes...

[oldgroaner]

On 12/07/2019 at 07:36, peterhardy said:

 

Apologies for the delay in updating.  My car went in for service as arranged.  The service guy said straight away that they had had issues with a few cars with bags that had split and that some cars had the bag and others didn't.  He had no explanation for this.  They checked my coolant system and could find no leaks or reasons for the level going down. Indeed, the level has remained constant since I put just under a half pint in to bring the level up to between the min and max.  They've put a little more in and have just advised to keep an eye on it.  I made sure that the low coolant warning has been logged so there's a record of it in the case of any further issues.  I will report back if anything changes...

You did the right thing to ensue they have logged the event just in case!

[oldgroaner]

I have kept an eye on the cooling system and sent another letter to Skoda

 

10th July 2019
Ref; XXXXXXXX
Dear Sir/ Madam
Further to my previous letter dated 27th June 2019, to which you have not responded.
I trust that you have not forgotten the issue, which is still not resolved, and new factors  have emerged.
When the matrix was replaced and the car returned to me all seemed well , until the coolant level started fluctuating again and I returned the car to the main dealer who tested it and declared all was well.
I commented at the time that the coolant appeared cloudier than it had when the repair first took place this was on June 25th
I tested a sample of the coolant new straight out of the container and it has a ph of 5.0, which does not change when diluted with de-ionised water.
Testing the coolant in the Expansion vessel in the car showed the ph had  risen to 6.0. And now once again it has risen to ph 6.5
This is a progressive failure of the coolant that the “Mit-Silika” T bag has failed to prevent.
I had also measured  the Standing Voltage of the coolant relative to earth when the car came back with a digital voltmeter and it was an acceptable 0.1volts.
That has now risen to 0.3volts, with the engine running,  and this rises to 0.35 volts when the headlights are on.
This is an indication of a Grounding Fault and Electrolysis taking place within the cooling system, which will lead to early failure somewhere in the engine or cooling system.
This situation is entirely the responsibility of the Manufacturer and clearly your liability.
I shall be away on holiday and look forward to your reaction on my return

 

Regards etc

ends.

 

Still as you can see not happy!

 

[peterhardy]

If more customers had your attitude and tenacity manufacturers might resolve issues in a more honest and speedy fashion!

 

Keep us informed, please. 👍🙂

[oldgroaner]

On 13/07/2019 at 19:02, peterhardy said:

If more customers had your attitude and tenacity manufacturers might resolve issues in a more honest and speedy fashion!

 

Keep us informed, please. 👍🙂

Will do! and thank you!

Edited 14 July, 2019 by oldgroaner
incomplete

[bmbmdmb]

MY16 reg Octavia 3 2l 150bhp 110kW

I posted on an unexpected loss of coolant within last year. This issue that has been kindly brought to our attention by OP was not mentioned by dealer. 

 

The coolant loss (max to min in one week) has not returned in my case. This info is good to know. If I have a coolant loss again I now know there are two possible reasons:. 1. This (blocked heat exchanger)

2. Original waterpump flange 'sticking' mentioned elsewhere on briskoda.

 

Thanks

 

You can bet there will be no recall.

 

Ps Is it worth removing silica from expansion tank and renewing coolant more frequently? Or is the silica 'tea' bag rupture a seldom event? 

 

The video on YouTube shows a 13 reg Octavia 3 and the chap indicates corrosion of heat exchanger could be cause of the blockage, in his case. It looked brown on inside and not due to being made of copper, but iron oxide rust.

 

If so, is 5yr timing belt - waterpump change and therefore coolant change insufficient to prevent corrosion.

 

Has the heat exchanger part been superseded with a better quality part?

 

 

 

[oldgroaner]

On 28/07/2019 at 20:58, bmbmdmb said:

MY16 reg Octavia 3 2l 150bhp 110kW

I posted on an unexpected loss of coolant within last year. This issue that has been kindly brought to our attention by OP was not mentioned by dealer. 

 

The coolant loss (max to min in one week) has not returned in my case. This info is good to know. If I have a coolant loss again I now know there are two possible reasons:. 1. This (blocked heat exchanger)

2. Original waterpump flange 'sticking' mentioned elsewhere on briskoda.

 

Thanks

 

You can bet there will be no recall.

 

Ps Is it worth removing silica from expansion tank and renewing coolant more frequently? Or is the silica 'tea' bag rupture a seldom event? 

 

The video on YouTube shows a 13 reg Octavia 3 and the chap indicates corrosion of heat exchanger could be cause of the blockage, in his case. It looked brown on inside and not due to being made of copper, but iron oxide rust.

 

If so, is 5yr timing belt - waterpump change and therefore coolant change insufficient to prevent corrosion.

 

Has the heat exchanger part been superseded with a better quality part?

 

 

 

From what I can find out failure of the silica bag is pretty rare, the colour in the heat exchanger  is interesting as it would suggest corrosion of the Gray cast iron cylinder block and crankcase, if the coolant fails diesel engines sometimes have problems with electrolysis. 

Remove the silica bag? I would have thought it better to leave it in, if they go to expense of dosing the coolant with it, it's likely they have good reason to, and  the risk of it failing is it seems remote.

As to the 5 year change cycle, Skoda say not a problem, I'm not convinced.

Has the heat exchanger part been superceded? Sorry but so far no information available to suggest so.

[oldgroaner]

Monday 5th August 2019

 

Just an update for you

Skoda responded as promised today with the feedback from my comments about the service life of the coolant in these engines.

Briefly the Technical people don’t see any advantage in replacing the coolant on a cyclic basis, which  is of course their choice to make,  a cynic might observe that when it fails the cost is generally incurred  outside the guarantee period, so from Skoda’s point of view can be ignored, as the customer pays, though not usually in full.

Further they stated that they do not think that Ph changes are as reliable as colour changes and particles appearing in the coolant.

I did point out that Ph changes indicate a problem forming as the coolant becomes more acidic, while colour changes and particles appearing  Indicate nothing more or less than that the coolant has failed and damage has already been done!

On the credit side they will be sending me a letter authorising a Free service, Major or minor of my choice, and frankly  the balance  outstanding of my claim   is too small to be worth pursuing.

So for the sake of arguing over the small sum Skoda have saved, they will lose the many thousands in purchase and servicing of my next car, as I will move to another manufacturer.

 

There is a moral there somewhere

If you have problems with coolant levels, or the heater not working on either  while the car is under guarantee, do not hesitate to contact your dealer and get it investigated to avoid paying for the poor quality control of Skoda limited.

And if you don't get satisfaction, do as I will do and take your business elsewhere next time.

 

 

[peterhardy]

Appreciate the update.

 

I totally agree with your view. I won't be ordering another Skoda after the fiasco I went through getting my car. If more people took their money elsewhere, things might change. I won't hold my breath though!

[Phil245]

22 hours ago, peterhardy said:

If more people took their money elsewhere,

 

The problem is that over the years I've owned BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Saab, Toyota, Ford, Vauxhall, Seat , Land Rover etc etc. Some have been ok, most noticeably probably Ford (!), but over the years I've had faults on most brands.....

 

If I knew with certainty where to take my money to enjoy fault free driving I would do.....!

.

Edited 6 August, 2019 by Phil245

[peterhardy]

The point you make is very true. It seems like one manufacturer is as bad as another! My issue with Skoda is with the complete nonsense and fibs I was told to explain away the delays with my car whilst other retail customers were getting their cars much quicker. That's why I won't give Skoda my money again. The car is great, overall, let down by crap customer service.

[brad1.8T]

On 26/06/2019 at 02:45, oldgroaner said:

 

 

I am preparing a letter to both Skoda UK and the  relevant motor ombudsman

 

 

You'd think these companies would know better than to take on retired professionals with time on their hands.

[oldgroaner]

3 hours ago, brad1.8T said:

You'd think these companies would know better than to take on retired professionals with time on their hands.

Especially when they are so patently turning a profit on poor quality control at the Customer's expense!

Needless to say I have reached the point of diminishing returns , and the remaining sum outstanding not worse the effort to recover it,

However I hope that bringing this to the attention of other victims of what is after all a scam, will enable them to react during the Guarantee period and avoid a bill after it has expired.

Best wishes to all!

[oldgroaner]

13 hours ago, peterhardy said:

The point you make is very true. It seems like one manufacturer is as bad as another! My issue with Skoda is with the complete nonsense and fibs I was told to explain away the delays with my car whilst other retail customers were getting their cars much quicker. That's why I won't give Skoda my money again. The car is great, overall, let down by crap customer service.

Absolutely agree, and sad because the dealership network has proved to be better than Skoda deserve, and suffers because of their incompetence.

[NikTheGeek]

23 hours ago, Phil245 said:

 

The problem is that over the years I've owned BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Saab, Toyota, Ford, Vauxhall, Seat , Land Rover etc etc. Some have been ok, most noticeably probably Ford (!), but over the years I've had faults on most brands.....

 

If I knew with certainty where to take my money to enjoy fault free driving I would do.....!

.

I've had faults with all sorts over the years: Landrover, Range Rover, MG, Ford, Nissan etc etc. But never Kia or Hyundai. Now I've had issues with Skoda (auto gearbox selector issues), I might go back to Korean cars. But parts are expensive...

[Wildman]

On 19/06/2019 at 20:11, oldgroaner said:

My 2015 2.0TDI 150 PS DSG had the light for low coolant come on so I booked it in with the main dealer. It is second hand and two months out of the guarantee .

Later that day they rang me to say the problem was that the heater matrix was blocked and the bill would be over £1300 pounds, but as a goodwill gesture they would deduct 45%

Bringing it down to £706.97.

My job before retirement being a company engineer responsible for field liability claims resolution, on pressuries boilers among other thinga, and  I pointed out the following

 

The heater matrix could only be blocked by either sand left over from the casting process, or corrosion products had excess flux been present in manufacture of a component such as the heater matrix and overcome the Inhibitor in the coolant causing corrosion and consequent particulate silt that blocked the Matrix

 

The coolant itself would not be replaced periodically at service intervals, but only when the Cam belt is changed either at five years or 140,000 miles, neither  of which has been reached

 

The inescapable conclusion therefore is that there was a latent manufacturing defect as the car left the Factory, and notwithstanding the Guarantee period has expired the liabilty under the law is with the manufacturer

 

I have been in contact with Skoda twice to register a complain, they responded today (the second time) not accepting liability but offering a goodwill free of charge major service.

I  responded "I can afford to pay for my car being serviced, thank you very much , but attempting to fob me off when under the law you have a clear liability to pay in full for this repair."

I also reminded them that this dealer has replaced SIX other heater matrixes that failed for the same reason, and that I found Fifteen other cases in the VW passat Forums.

I pointed out that this is very bad policy for a major company to refuse to accept not merely it's liabilty in a single instance, which is after all a mere pittance to them, but to try to pretend this is a one off problem

 

It makes you wonder, if this dealer has had six failures of this type, how many are there across the hundreds of dealerships across the UK, and how many people simply top up their coolant unaware of the sort of future bill they face?

I have a word of advice for anyone Owning one of the Skoda Octavias, especially if it is still under guarantee,

If the  coolant level falls below the minimum, check if your heater is still working, and or as in my case the car is slow to warm up if the heater is either not working or not very warm, insist that the dealer deals with the problem under guarantee. Don't just top up the coolant, it needs to be investigated while you can have it fixed at no charge to avoid being ripped off s I have been, and by the look of it a lot of other people too, many of whom will be unaware of this nasty shock they could face through no fault of their own.

Has anyone else been treated in so cavalier a fashion over a failure of this type due to a manufacturing defect?

I am simply not going to leave it at that, you can be sure!

 

[Wildman]

How did you get on with this in the end....?  I've got a 2015 Mk 3 Skoda Octavia Scout.  The heating seemed to stop working about a fortnight ago but intermittently has blown out warmish air.  I'm trying to work out the best process so I don't get stung with a huge bill for replacing the matrix.  Any idea where I should start?  I could start by checking for air locks but am not sure if it's a self bleeding system.  Next I could flush the coolant and replace maybe?  I could also replace the reservoir (which might have the silica bag in it....  finally I guess I have to take it to a garage and undoubtly part with serious cash to get the heater matrix replaced!