Handling Feel

[ChoonDoode]

The unfortunately cheaper torsion beam set up won't be helping. It's an annoyance I have have that Skoda doesn't fit independent rear suspension in all the octavia models. However, not everyone would have the ability to tell the difference.

 

The only time when I'm finding there to be an issue with handling is when I push it a little in the wet and that's down to the Bridgestone tyres not being particularly great in the wet.

 

Apart from that, in the dry it's very much planted and stable going round the bends. That's possibly due to the lower and stiffer springs with it being a VRS.

 

From past experience of lower cars, I've found that does dramatically improve the handling of cars. My last car (Hyundai i20) had a set of Eibach pro kit springs installed; 25mm drop front and 20mm rear. Body roll was reduced, which meant the understeer calmed down. It also got rid of the lift off oversteer. Then fingers started pointing at the tyres for further handling improvement.

 

As said above by others as well, have a look at some different springs / shocks and possibly an antiroll bar upgrade. You don't have to 'slam' the car, but lowering it subtly would aid you.

[MC Bodge]

11 hours ago, logiclee said:

But the XF is never crashy over potholes and ridges like the Octy is and as the speed rises it isn't unsettled mid corner like the Octy is.

That sums it up. 

 

Ford previously managed to achieve the good bits at a similar price to the Skoda. 

 

As I said earlier, with a full load, my Octavia estate rides and even handles better than unladen. My old Mondeo drove almost the same laden and unladen. 

 

The vast majority of drivers wouldnt care, though, so manufacturers presumably so need not spend extra money on engineering those things. 

Edited 13 July, 2019 by MC Bodge

[gregoir]

As I said, my Combi produces a slight wriggle ,at worst, from the rear. I take it as a sign to calm down on difficult roads. Better mpg and tyre life are more important for me nowadays.

I'd a Mk3 Golf Gl with a 1.8l turbo diesel.  That was notorious for lift off oversteer, especially with a mid corner dip in the road thrown in. The Octavia rear end is well behaved in comparison.

[themanwithnoaim]

Having had a 1.4 TSI & driven the wheels off it most days I'll chuck in my twopence worth in.

 

The back end wasn't confidence inspiring & could get a little skipping with potholes/undulations through corners however, it you can it into your mindset that it's a FWD car so just bury the throttle at the apex, it always grips & goes no matter what it feels like.

 

I ran R17/45/225 Michelin CC @39psi (but vague on high speed turn in at lower pressures) after getting rid of the factory tyres & liked them a lot, yes they could let go in hot weather but, they were progressive when they did let go.

[MC Bodge]

2 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

Having had a 1.4 TSI & driven the wheels off it most days I'll chuck in my twopence worth in.

 

The back end wasn't confidence inspiring & could get a little skipping with potholes/undulations through corners however, it you can it into your mindset that it's a FWD car so just bury the throttle at the apex, it always grips & goes no matter what it feels like.

 

I ran R17/45/225 Michelin CC @39psi (but vague on high speed turn in at lower pressures) after getting rid of the factory tyres & liked them a lot, yes they could let go in hot weather but, they were progressive when they did let go.

I'd agree that driven hard and on smooth surfaces in the dry it does grip.

 

It is more the feel and balance that isnt great, especially when driving briskly, but not hard. 

 

It's not a major issue, it is always good to tweak things to improve them, though 

 

 

[MC Bodge]

Having recently driven around the Lake District, the Octavia certainly wasn't bad, and driven smoothly it can be hustled along, but it struggles noticeably with bumpy and off-camber bends. It also often requires more steering input than expected - it must tend to "push" outwards a little. This was at family friendly pace. 

 

It just highlights how good previous generation Ford chassis' are in comparison.

 

I will buy a set of new tyres soon, probably Rainsports. 

Edited 10 August, 2019 by MC Bodge

[MC Bodge]

The Rainsports have improved the wet and dry handling. The front wheel traction is better, but the wheel hop is still there. A brisk (not harsh) pull away from a T junction often results in hopping wheels more than I would expect. 

 

The steering feel is never going to be great, but it is OK. 

 

The ride is still bloody irritating, though. A recent trip around the Yorkshire Pennines involved a constant light jarring - over every slight ripple in the tarmac. It is almost as if the suspension is rigid and the car rocks over the bumps. 

 

I run and ride bicycles on and off road in all weathers so I'm not exactly a delicate flower. 

 

How Skoda/VAG could think that it is acceptable is a mystery. I suppose that it is just about good enough, but our 13 year old Fiesta, with its torsion bar rear suspension, has a much better ride. My old Mk4 Mondeo was streets ahead. I'm interested to find out how the Octavia copes with somewhere like Corney Fell -The Mondeo was superb. 

 

It must be partly down to excessive compression damping in the Octavia. Driven hard it is better (not great), but a family car needs to be driven mostly not hard. 

[logiclee]

19 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

The Rainsports have improved the wet and dry handling. The front wheel traction is better, but the wheel hop is still there. A brisk (not harsh) pull away from a T junction often results in hopping wheels more than I would expect. 

 

The steering feel is never going to be great, but it is OK. 

 

The ride is still bloody irritating, though. A recent trip around the Yorkshire Pennines involved a constant light jarring - over every slight ripple in the tarmac. It is almost as if the suspension is rigid and the car rocks over the bumps. 

 

I run and ride bicycles on and off road in all weathers so I'm not exactly a delicate flower. 

 

How Skoda/VAG could think that it is acceptable is a mystery. I suppose that it is just about good enough, but our 13 year old Fiesta, with its torsion bar rear suspension, has a much better ride. My old Mk4 Mondeo was streets ahead. I'm interested to find out how the Octavia copes with somewhere like Corney Fell -The Mondeo was superb. 

 

It must be partly down to excessive compression damping in the Octavia. Driven hard it is better (not great), but a family car needs to be driven mostly not hard. 

 

 

Pretty much in 100% agreement.

 

The best chassis's feel firm with little roll while still being able to soak up road imperfections and isolating the cabin from sudden shocks and vibrations.

 

The Mk3 Octavia on torsion beam transmits ridges, potholes and poor surfaces into the cabin, the rear end will skip in bends, it never settles yet there is still quite a bit of body roll in the corners. The worst of both worlds.

[MC Bodge]

49 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

 

Pretty much in 100% agreement.

 

The best chassis's feel firm with little roll while still being able to soak up road imperfections and isolating the cabin from sudden shocks and vibrations.

 

The Mk3 Octavia on torsion beam transmits ridges, potholes and poor surfaces into the cabin, the rear end will skip in bends, it never settles yet there is still quite a bit of body roll in the corners. The worst of both worlds.

Yes. Firm ride, bouncing off bumps, but not all that controlled in bends. It's a shame as I find that it really spoils my experience of the car. 

 

Is the IRS version noticeably better? A friend with a Mk2 Estate says his is fine. 

 

I had a Triumph Street Triple that did similar. On smooth tarmac it was great, but on rough surfaces, appalling. The Trough of Bowland was very unpleasant.

 

It was mostly the standard rear shock and the (steeply) rising rate rear linkage that was the culprit. Replacing the shock with an adjustable one and a more linear linkage made a vast improvement. 

 

It would be good to be able to do similar for the Octavia. 

[logiclee]

12 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

 

 

Is the IRS version noticeably better? A friend with a Mk2 Estate says his is fine. 

 

 

The Mk2 doesn't have the issues, much nicer, it's compliant and handles better but is still quite bland. We still have our Mk2 although sold the Mk3. Says it all.

 

The only IRS Mk3 I've driven is the VRS o 19's and any real compliance gained from the IRS setup is pretty much negated by the 19's and sports suspension. Still quite crashy. One thing the VRS doesn't have is the skippy back end.

[MC Bodge]

7 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

The Mk2 doesn't have the issues, much nicer, it's compliant and handles better but is still quite bland. We still have our Mk2 although sold the Mk3. Says it all.

 

The only IRS Mk3 I've driven is the VRS o 19's and any real compliance gained from the IRS setup is pretty much negated by the 19's and sports suspension. Still quite crashy. One thing the VRS doesn't have is the skippy back end.

Interesting about the Mk2 and the vRS, thanks.

 

My father in law's mk3 hatch rides better than my estate. 

 

I can't see myself keeping this car for that long, unless I can improve the chassis, without paying a fortune insurance for the pleasure. 

 

-I had intended to keep it for a few years, but I enjoy a flowing drive along a back road and this Octavia annoys me there, with its choppy ride and not so great steering, and also its crashing/rumbling along rough/bumpy urban roads. 

 

The Focus estate is just a little too small for my needs.... 

 

Edited 23 October, 2019 by MC Bodge

[ChoonDoode]

I wouldn't know what you'd change on it to make it more comfortable. Most suspension upgrades would make the car move sporty, potentially making it even more annoying for you.

[logiclee]

24 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

 

-I had intended to keep it for a few years, but I enjoy a flowing drive along a back road and this Octavia annoys me there, with its choppy ride and not so great steering, and also its crashing/rumbling along rough/bumpy urban roads. 

 

Yes that's me too.

 

I would have suffered it for another year but with the reliability issues as well I sold after just 13 months.

 

I need a bit of cabin space but not massive boot space so decided to go full on for a RWD sports saloon.  A 3 or 5 Series were actually my first choices. 

[MC Bodge]

26 minutes ago, tunedude said:

I wouldn't know what you'd change on it to make it more comfortable. Most suspension upgrades would make the car move sporty, potentially making it even more annoying for you.

Crashy does not equal sporty.

 

I am interested to know if the geometry of the rear beam or front wishbones are contributing or of it is just poor quality dampers that are the issue. 

 

 

[MC Bodge]

23 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

Yes that's me too.

 

I would have suffered it for another year but with the reliability issues as well I sold after just 13 months.

 

I need a bit of cabin space but not massive boot space so decided to go full on for a RWD sports saloon.  A 3 or 5 Series were actually my first choices. 

I'd like the same engine, but in a better chassis. The Superb Estate was my first choice, but the Octavia came up in a decent spec locally for much, much less than an equivalent Superb.

 

The Octavia is a better size for UK roads and car parks, though. 

[logiclee]

10 hours ago, MC Bodge said:

Crashy does not equal sporty.

 

I am interested to know if the geometry of the rear beam or front wishbones are contributing or of it is just poor quality dampers that are the issue. 

 

 

 

I'm thinking the issue is the quality of the suspension as a whole. MQB has a choice of IRS or torsion beam, cast iron or light alloy components, and  obviously a vast choice of springs and dampers.  The Octavia uses the the bargain basement parts bin.  

 

Drive a Golf R and the ride is much firmer but it's not crashy. Not only is the chassis IRS but it also has light alloy components as well as the higher spec springs and dampers.

 

Steering still feels detached though nut that's on every MQB car.

 

I don't think you can blame torsion beam for everything as the front end of my Mk3 was crashy as well.

Edited 24 October, 2019 by logiclee

[MC Bodge]

22 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

I'm thinking the issue is the quality of the suspension as a whole. MQB has a choice of IRS or torsion beam, cast iron or light alloy components, and  obviously a vast choice of springs and dampers.  The Octavia uses the the bargain basement parts bin.  

 

Drive a Golf R and the ride is much firmer but it's not crashy. Not only is the chassis IRS but it also has light alloy components as well as the higher spec springs and dampers.

 

Steering still feels detached though nut that's on every MQB car.

 

I don't think you can blame torsion beam for everything as the front end of my Mk3 was crashy as well.

The front end feels similar on mine, although from experience of motorbikes and mountain bike suspension fettling, it can originate from the rear. 

 

Our old Fiesta has McPherson struts and a torsion bar, all steel, and it rides far better on rough surfaces, despite being shorter, lighter and lightly insulated. 

 

The issue appears to be that, rather than the Octavia suspending the body and isolating the passengers from very low amplitude road bumps, they are passed straight to them. The wheels don't respond vertically quickly enough. 

 

High frequency compression damping (from dampers or otherwise) is too high. 

 

Ps. It also bottoms out at the rear more easily and harsher than expected. 

Edited 24 October, 2019 by MC Bodge

[Alex-W]

I'm really not sure what people are referring to with the crashy ride in the Octavia. 

Maybe it's just that mine is a vrs, hatch on 18s.  Or maybe I'm just less fussy!

 

As I said previously, there's definitely much more of a numb feeling, I wouldn't say it's got a great 'feel', certainly in comparison with older cars.  However, don't get the crashy comments.  It's perfectly comfortable.

 

But then, I don't like cars that are very smooth, they can actually make me feel car sick.

[gregoir]

We now have a new Kia Picanto3 in the family. A metre shorter than my Combi and feels "fun" with a sharp turn in and 55% profile tyres. The ride is decent but with the shorter wheelbase speed humps do have a different feel.

Passengers still comment on how smooth and comfortable my Octavia is. On well surfaced roads I do not get any self steering and the steering feels great to me. As I said, It's just on bumpy bends that I get a wriggle.

Been driving for 50 years now and, generally, cars are much better all round.

[Alex-W]

For me, late 90s and early 00s were a sweet spot of cars being far more comfortable, far more capable, having everything you need (power steering, air con), without the technology that in many cases detracts from the driving experience (ie loss of feel, excess weight) and ultimately makes the cars less reliable.

[logiclee]

3 hours ago, gregoir said:

 

. As I said, It's just on bumpy bends that I get a wriggle.

 

 

 

I believe that is the issue that people are reporting. On good roads the Octy 3 has a perfectly good ride and handling but on poor surface it doesn't absorb sudden shocks and small imperfections well enough. To much noise, vibration and harshness gets transmitted into the cabin.

 

5 hours ago, Alex-W said:

I'm really not sure what people are referring to with the crashy ride in the Octavia. 

Maybe it's just that mine is a vrs, hatch on 18s.  Or maybe I'm just less fussy!

 

As I said previously, there's definitely much more of a numb feeling, I wouldn't say it's got a great 'feel', certainly in comparison with older cars.  However, don't get the crashy comments.  It's perfectly comfortable.

 

But then, I don't like cars that are very smooth, they can actually make me feel car sick.

 

The problem I have is the Octavia is quite firm and well damped for high speed work so it's not floaty. But at slower speeds over ridges and potholes the car thumps, jolts and transmits noise and harshness in the cabin. And on poorly surfaced roads a lot of noise is transmitted through the suspension into the cabin.  But although the Octavia feels firmly setup there is still a lot of roll in the corners.

I've had other cars which are much stiffer and offer far less body roll in corners but do not transmit road imperfections into the cabin or jolt when you hit potholes. I agree these have mainly been on more expensive cars with more sophisticated setups (BMW, Jaguar) but to be honest drive a new Golf and they handle just as well if not better than the Octavia but do not transmit anywhere near the amount of harshness into the cabin. 

[MC Bodge]

1 hour ago, logiclee said:

 

I believe that is the issue that people are reporting. On good roads the Octy 3 has a perfectly good ride and handling but on poor surface it doesn't absorb sudden shocks and small imperfections well enough. To much noise, vibration and harshness gets transmitted into the cabin.

 

 

The problem I have is the Octavia is quite firm and well damped for high speed work so it's not floaty. But at slower speeds over ridges and potholes the car thumps, jolts and transmits noise and harshness in the cabin. And on poorly surfaced roads a lot of noise is transmitted through the suspension into the cabin.  But although the Octavia feels firmly setup there is still a lot of roll in the corners.

I've had other cars which are much stiffer and offer far less body roll in corners but do not transmit road imperfections into the cabin or jolt when you hit potholes. I agree these have mainly been on more expensive cars with more sophisticated setups (BMW, Jaguar) but to be honest drive a new Golf and they handle just as well if not better than the Octavia but do not transmit anywhere near the amount of harshness into the cabin. 

Exactly my experience. 

 

I have said before that driven hard, the Octavia isn't too bad, but for normal driving about, even the smallest imperfections in the road are felt through the driver's seat and immediately quite irritating. I haven't driven a modern Golf in comparison, although I have driven a few recent examples of the  Focus and Peugeot, Fiat and Seat rentals and don't recall the same issues. 

 

The Octavia is firm riding, but doesn't handle or even steer that nicely, and is unsettled by bumps. I would much prefer a more compliant, flowing ride over non-glass-like surfaces. It doesn't take a vastly expensive car to achieve it. 

Edited 24 October, 2019 by MC Bodge

[cheezemonkhai]

I seem to remember the hollow front wishbone bushes made it feel like this.

 

when replaced with new solid ones, the steering feel was much improved.

[MC Bodge]

43 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I seem to remember the hollow front wishbone bushes made it feel like this.

 

when replaced with new solid ones, the steering feel was much improved.

Did they make the suspension harsher, though? 

[cheezemonkhai]

Super pro and then a bolstering b12 kit improved the mk2 no end.

 

oddly the super pro wishbone bushes were no more harsh than own in my eyes.

 

the b12 didn’t just improve the ride, but the eibach springs in that kit made the ride much much better and more compliant on poor roads.

 

i think that probably says more about the factory set up than anything else.