Driving up hills in Citigo SE L automatic.

[Chaffinch]

l went for a test drive in a Citigo auto yesterday. It is 2016 with 10000 miles on the clock. I loved the car, almost everything about, it until I came to a hill when it seemed to lose power badly. The salesman said that I have to do a quick tap on the accelerator for it to pick up power, which it eventually did but it was not a good experience. The rest of the test drive went very well. I was told that I would soon get used to the hills. What I want to know, is the problem with hills a fault in the car or was it my driving style? I would be grateful if anyone with more experience could help me with information. I have driven a  manual Metro and an automatic Micra before and never had a problem. I would really like to buy this car if all is well.

[Emil]

It is not automatic in traditional way. It is automatic manual or "robot automatic" in my language. Electric motors or servos operate manual gearbox and clutch. It has own characteristics. You better ask another test drive to be sure if it's for you or not. I could live with it. Although I had only 1 hour test drive. No steep hills here up north though. 

[Chaffinch]

 Thanks Emil, I was so used to not having to think about hills and gears in the Micra,I expected this to be the same. I have already decided to have another test drive. Does your VW use the same transmission?

[Emil]

I'm pretty sure up! have same driveline. 

 

Just keep in mind these little engines tries to keep rpm low. It's better for fuel economy. But still they pull nicely between 1000-3000rmp. If it can maintain speed it usually is enough. To get it lower gear (higher rpm) push pedal all the way down. It's like kick down on traditional automatic. 

[Citigouk]

its an automated gearbox opposed to a traditional automatic

 

 

he ASG is an automated manual transmission that combines excellent fuel economy with driving ease.

Just like with a conventional automatic transmission, gears can be changed automatically by switching the gear lever to the drive (D) position, but it’s also possible to change gears manually by moving the gear to the “+”or “-“ positions.

When the drive position is selected, the gear change timings will depend on driving style and acceleration speed. Because the ASG is a single-clutch gearbox (just like a manual gearbox), torque to the driving wheels must be interrupted during a gear change. This is most noticeable during maximum acceleration: a lighter throttle load produces a smoother shift.

[Chaffinch]

Thank you Citigouk. I am not mechanically minded but I understand what you are saying. How would I apply this when going up a steep hill. Do I give the accelerator ‘a quick tap’ or is it better to use the manual gear? I am getting a car in my retirement after some years of not driving and I don’t want to buy something that is not sound. It seemed odd that it lost power on a hill - was this because I was not used to driving it. The salesman said that I would soon get the knack but I had no trouble with the rest of the journey and I really enjoyed driving it.

[KenONeill]

@Chaffinch - I'm not familiar with any of the car, the engine or the characteristics of this gearbox. However, in anything I have driven I would expect to have to increase power to climb a hill; I might also expect to have to change down (manual) or provoke a downshift if I didn't get one automatically (any form of automated transmission, be it DSG, torque converter or even CVT). (In which context I've been driving a borrowed CVT the last couple of weeks and have to think even less than usual about gear selection)

[Emil]

You may feel the kick down switch when you push pedal all the way down. That's what you may need at some point. It will change lower gear. 

[Blackcountryman]

None of the press reports i've read give the auto box in these cars a good report.If you feel you are limited to an auto,your driving style needs to adapt too.

Try to look well ahead,and if a gradient/hill appears to be coming up,use the gearcontrol/shifter to change down a gear before the car is on the incline.You then have increased engine revs to give more torque/pulling power to get up there. The engines are small and a bit breathless,but once you know what your dealing   with you can adapt.......

Edited 23 August, 2019 by Blackcountryman

[snapseller]

Hi,

I have an Elegant with the auto box & find it functions best if, when you want to GO, is to just keep pressing on the fast pedal. Uphill this usually results in a change down to 4th & a rush of acceleration. I still get 50ish per gallon. Try it & enjoy. 

[Ootohere]

^^^ That does the job,

but then good tyres and road surface required, for steep up slopes in the wet, cold, snow / ice best just use the Automated Manual manually IMO 

and not go for 'kick down' or just floor it mode.

[Emil]

. 

Edited 23 August, 2019 by Emil

[freemansteve]

If you need an automatic, look at the i10 - it has a proper torque converter and AGB; the Citigo/Up/Mii has a much more primitive system. 

But then again, I can say, having come from a very nice 7sp auto,  my new Citigo does have a surprisingly good 5sp manual gear change - light and positive clutch and slick-enough shift.... (and yes, all 5 forward gears have synchromesh despite popular belief).

 

 

[mdk1]

Our Citigo has the ASG box and it's great. Never found it lacking power on hills, if anything I sometimes have to back off the go pedal.

My daughter has last week passed her driving test and now taken over " ownership " and has already done 100 solo miles with no problems. She managed to pick up the driving technique in a matter of miles.

Over the past 35k miles mostly stop start  town driving it has averaged 49 mpg.

So I would recommend one.

[Clockworks]

On 23/08/2019 at 19:01, freemansteve said:

If you need an automatic, look at the i10 - it has a proper torque converter and AGB; the Citigo/Up/Mii has a much more primitive system. 

But then again, I can say, having come from a very nice 7sp auto,  my new Citigo does have a surprisingly good 5sp manual gear change - light and positive clutch and slick-enough shift.... (and yes, all 5 forward gears have synchromesh despite popular belief).

Surely it's the other way around? Torque converter autos are old school, automated manuals are more sophisticated and potentially more economical.

 

Torque converter 'boxes are generally nicer to drive though, especially when coupled to a bigger engine where power losses and economy aren't as important.

 

I think a TC 'box with only 60bhp would be pretty grim to drive on the open road.

On 23/08/2019 at 19:01, freemansteve said:

 

 

 

[freemansteve]

Well, I'd argue internal combustion engines are "old school", but they have become developed to be pretty good in many ways, like TC boxes.

 

All modern TC boxes have lock-ups which means they are efficient, and I know some have 10 speeds now - either way, they are smoother to use than ASG or DSG.

It seems to me that while many owners are happy with ASG, there are lots of comments about "adjusting driving style to suit", and for me, ASG represents a much more primitive system than TC or DSG, being basically a bolt on of a bunch of solenoids onto a manual box - if I recall correctly there were a few electro-mechanical boxes (like ASG) in the 70's and 80's on some quite expensive cars, but they fell out of favour and TC's ruled again until DSG came along.

 

I still reckon that anyone keen to have an autobox may well find the TC on the i10 to be a lot nicer that the ASG on a Citigo, but it academic as Citigos are to be electric only - and electric motors are excellent....

 

[Ootohere]

@Clockworks

Small capacity 3 or 4 cylinder engines with traditional automatics do pretty well and have done for over a decade.

No idea what VW Group thought they were playing at using the ASG in the Up!MiiCitigo and then sticking with it as long as they did.

It is sad the ones now going wrong and costing the owners.

 

I had a Picanto Automatic / 4 speed 1.1 16 valve with a heady 68ps and it was fantastic fun and gave good economy.

I also had Suzuki Jimny's with 4 speed auto's, again they did what they should, change gear and prove to be reliable and long lived.

 

I also had a Toyota iQ / 68ps with a CVT and it was really good and economical and the gearbox a treat compared to the ASG.

(Also among the under 1.500 cc's with a 3 or 4 speed auto, Original Mini Autos, Volvo CVT, Fiat CVT, Fiat Autos, Fords,Vauxhalls, VW's)

 

 

Edited 25 August, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Clockworks]

What exactly is it that some people dislike about automated manual gearboxes (DSG or any other acronym)?

 

I've only owned 2 cars with this type of auto - my current Superb 280, and my previous 2014 Ford Galaxy. The Galaxy was a little bit jerky in stop/start conditions, but fine once on the move. The Superb is faultless - I really can't tell the difference between it and the TC autos I had in a BMW 5 series and a Touareg. Perfectly predictable, and smooth changes.

 

I've owned other automatic cars in the past - a couple of Ford Granadas and a 911 (964). These suffered a bit by only having 3 gears (the 911 pulled away in second unless the throttle was mashed off the line), and were a bit jerky unless driven sedately. An automatic 2 litre Sierra courtesy car was just awful - no performance at all. Older cars, older tech, not as refined.

 

Maybe it's more about how the engine, gearbox and chassis are matched by the manufacturer, rather than the type of gearbox and how it's controlled?

 

 

Oh, and the reason I bought a 911 with an autobox is because I couldn't comfortably get my foot on the clutch pedal with a manual, and it was quite a bit cheaper - perfect low miler for the same price as a tatty manual. The only car that I've owned for 3 years that didn't cost me a penny - sold for £10k more than I paid for it.

[Ootohere]

DSG's & DCT's are great.

 

The ASG is as was in a Smart, Mitsubishi, Honda, Toyota etc at some point and VW should have known better.

[Chaffinch]

MDK1. Thank you Mike, that is just the sort of  information from an owner I wanted to know. Very reassuring. 

 

Thank you also to everyone who took the trouble to address my concerns. All being well I hope to be the happy owner of the Skoda Citigo by Thursday.

[freemansteve]

58 minutes ago, Clockworks said:

What exactly is it that some people dislike about automated manual gearboxes (DSG or any other acronym)?

 

The acronyms are important only because they reference one of several completely different systems.  Some have poor or slow or clunky changes, and can be hard work to make smooth progress in all situations.....

 

I believe ASG is "automated shift gearbox" or some German language equivalent and is explained above, but DSG/DCT is much more recent and sophisticated system, having two clutches  and twin shafts and a means of automatically pre-selecting gears that means there is very close to no loss of drive-train torque (not the case on a manual or an ASG) and similar to the feel of  a TC-based box.

 

We had a Smart a while ago, and it was very good, bar the gearbox! In that car, it was an automated sequential gearbox, which meant that  with a kick-down - which may need to select a gear 2 lower than the current gear - it had to temporarily select unwanted gears on the way to the right one!  What a noisy and slow drama!

 

I very much liked the 7sp torque converter-based box on my truck - it was the one they used for high-end Infiniti cars, so was pretty good. And anyone towing a serious weight would be foolish to not use a vehicle with a TC. 

 

My new Citigo has an excellent manual box - better than many manuals I have tried at 4 times the price! Although I gather the Up/Citigo got a revised box a while back, so older ones may not be as slick.

 

Each to his own, though.

 

Edited 25 August, 2019 by freemansteve

[Clockworks]

OK, thanks for pointing out the differences in automated gearboxes, I didn't realise that the Citigo used a single clutch auto. Makes sense that it wouldn't be as smooth or fast as a double clutch. Sequential box sounds like a pain in a road car, although motorcycles have always been sequential since foot-shifting became the norm.

 

I'll stick with a manual box in small cars - at least until everything goes electric, and gearboxes aren't needed.

[Gerrycan]

The Up! was briefly sold in Australia but was not a success as it was only supplied with manual here and 80% of cars sold are auto boxes, the ASG was not considered good enough for local distribution.

The problem being that most Australians do not (some cannot) drive a manual and were used to torque converters, and I think that creates difficulties for those who have difficulty with the ASG, and even DSG,  low speed and gear change characteristics.

My daughter first learnt and passed her test in a small (Citigo size/performance) manual Japanese car driving on our local very flat roads. I then had to take her to the hills area to teach her that dropping a couple of gears and revving the engine above 4k rpm was better for the engine than trying to plonk up in top gear

Poor girl thought she was hurting the engine by revving it and I had to assure her that it loved it. Of course she later took that advice out of context and proceeded to get an expensive speeding ticket.

I'm quite looking forward to the opportunity to drive an electric car, they must be the perfect urban vehicle, once prices and infrastructure are sorted, but that is going to be a while.

 

Edited 26 August, 2019 by Gerrycan

[freemansteve]

Yep - I now have my last ICE car - but looking forward to max torque at zero RPM, smooth, quiet, clean (given renewable power gen) etc etc, but I expect I'll be dead & gone by the time they have decent range, fast charging, affordable price and say a 15 year battery-life warranty

 

[Chaffinch]

I am now the happy owner of a 2016 Skoda Citygo SE L Auto 5 door car. Took it on another test run and all seems well. Thank you all for your input, it helped a lot. As I haven’t driven for eight years I commended the salesman on his bravery!😀