Karoq Speakers and AMP Upgrade

[Shahoff]

As all who who have Karoq without sound system (amplifier) know - the sound in our cars is dull and flat , without any more less decent bass and complete absence of high frequencies details.

I decided to fix this issue with minimal possible budget and as less technical hassle as possible. I splitted my exercise in few steps. First two I combined , but even first one will lead to way better bass in your car. 

 

1) I did lite version of doors sound deadening included outside metal , inside metal frame, and door panel wit anti vibration and noise cancellation covers. All materials are relatively light , but effect is dramatic. I did the same with stock speakers on my previous SupMK3 and result was very good as well.

 

 

2) This time I decided not to stop on half way and installed relatively cheap Focal component speakers. Rear set was Midbass speakers from integration series IS 165VW + TWU 1.5 tweeters (original from set I lost during house move  .

 

This tweeters fits with just a couple of drops of hot glue. Midbass are bolt on bar wires.

 

3) Front speakers I got Focal PS 165V1 as they do have separate crossovers for midbass and tweeters. So this saved me a hassle to reroute wiring but added additional complexity of tweeters disassembly.   Both , rear and front speakers installed at default positions with original wiring  ( bar connectors).

 

 

Probably PS 165FX will be better , but wiring .... I was not mentally ready

 

 

In a mean time , as I broke one of the A-Pillar plastic cover I decided to change colour to black.  Maybe I can reuse old one for proper tweeters podiums one day.  

 

 

 

The result of all this was already astonishing. For aprox 400(ish) euro   + a lot of Russian swearing  ( as i did all by myself) I got completely different sound in my Karoq as well as WAY less road noise during daily commutes.

 

 

But I decided to go extra mile and add Plug`n`Play AMP with DSP and under seat subwoofer 

 

4) Apmlified DSP I got - PUZU PZ-C31. Manufacturer claiming 45W RMS. Not exactly true , but I can now listen the music way launder the with stock speakers and headunit. I definetly can recommend this Amp for everyone who want better sound in their car without rewiring and other complex exercises  which can cost you thousands. Got the device here: 

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32943217567.html?af=2679416&cv=72&cn=43q05zx0mp82kh7x0op8amf2p5i286z2&dp=v5_43q05zx0mp82kh7x0op8amf2p5i286z2&afref=&aff_platform=api&cpt=1572400405028&sk=E2Hg0fJa&aff_trace_key=80b893ab41034997a9fbd2d1367de64e-1572400405028-01244-E2Hg0fJa&terminal_id=72a34e7e0dac49a392ffd8d0ce91eee6

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wire loom actually needs to be extended , if you want underseat install.

 

 

 

 

 

5) Subwoofer will be Kenwood KBC-SW11 , but I do not have much info  yet  

 

 

 

 

Any questions , suggestions - welcome!

I am also will be happy if anyone share with me image of test disks for tuning DSP ( Pioneer have few different as example)

 

 

 

 

Edited 30 October, 2019 by Shahoff

[Danny 57]

Well done that is a very well put together project. 

[9800pro]

Hi Shahoff,

 

can you please tell me now that some time has passed how are you satisfied with the end result?

What is the difference after installing damping only with stock speakers?

I'm in the process of deciding do i or don't need Canton upgrade for my new Karoq.

 

Thank you

[Shahoff]

On 14/11/2019 at 09:18, 9800pro said:

can you please tell me now that some time has passed how are you satisfied with the end result?

What is the difference after installing damping only with stock speakers?

I'm in the process of deciding do i or don't need Canton upgrade for my new Karoq.

 

 

I did not yet connected SUB , but I am already feeling that quality of sound I got is 400% better then my expectation.

I did not listen the system with stock speakers and sound deadening install on my Karoq as I did not want to remove door panels to many times. But I did this before on my Skoda Superb MK3 , and result was very good as well - way better bass  and quieter ride. However stock tweeters are rubbish  compare to anything aftermarket.
I did not listen Canton on Karoq at all , but did compare sound system vs default speakers on Octavia and I was not impressed.

The main thing is , no matter what you decided to to do , sound deadening is the MUST and any starter/mid range speaker sets like Focals on at least front doors will improve situation dramatically.

Genuine sound system upgrade is very complicated  on install part as well as require to remove component protection as amplifier is connected via MOST fiber bus.  If I had such budget I would rather go to install some HELIX or AUDISON equipment with Focals PS165K2 power or equivalent 

But all this is IMHO

[Shahoff]

On 14/11/2019 at 09:18, 9800pro said:

PS;

 

Did not realize that you are still in purchase process ,  then yes , maybe Canton is reasonable option. You will be always be able to do sound deadening after or even change speakers for something better.

[9800pro]

18 hours ago, Shahoff said:

 

Did not realize that you are still in purchase process ,  then yes , maybe Canton is reasonable option. You will be always be able to do sound deadening after or even change speakers for something better.

Yes, didn't yet get it. I did listen to the Canton in Superb and frankly factory speakers in Karoq sounded the same or better, to me at least.

I'm no stranger to damping doors and floors to get better sound. My reasoning is that i can get quality damping material for the cost of Canton and get better sound + noise reduction in the process.

Only advantage of Canton to me is amplifier with all proper digital cables installed so later i can just change speakers, don't need to ransack whole car for cabling of aftermarket amp.

 

[9800pro]

@Shahoff

Sorry for bothering again but just to be sure.

Puzu unit goes between main head unit and speakers?

The cable that comes with Puzu is compatible with Karoq or do i need to get another one?

And lastly, power for Puzu is taken from head unit or?

Thx

 

[Guest]

Hi,

 

No intentions of upgrading std system on Karoq but interesting read. I've done much the same on my Octavia ( minus the sound deadening ) but used the Match amp. which when hooked up to the battery will also power a small sub. Easy peasy to hide the tiny Match but that Puzu thing looks massive, especially given it's 4x45W RMS specs.  Where have you mounted it?

[Shahoff]

5 hours ago, Scot5 said:

Hi,

 

No intentions of upgrading std system on Karoq but interesting read. I've done much the same on my Octavia ( minus the sound deadening ) but used the Match amp. which when hooked up to the battery will also power a small sub. Easy peasy to hide the tiny Match but that Puzu thing looks massive, especially given it's 4x45W RMS specs.  Where have you mounted it?

 

 

Hmm, its only 174mmX130mmX45mm and I do not know how you can call this size "massive"  :)
I still not decided yet , maybe I am going to mount it next to umbrella box under passenger seat. Just need to extent loom a bit.

Which "Match" you used in Octy ?

Edited 21 November, 2019 by Shahoff

[Shahoff]

12 hours ago, 9800pro said:

Sorry for bothering again but just to be sure.

Puzu unit goes between main head unit and speakers?

The cable that comes with Puzu is compatible with Karoq or do i need to get another one?

And lastly, power for Puzu is taken from head unit or?

Thx

Yes, when you are buying - ask shop for Skoda loom and better if they have 2 meter one and not default 1.3. No extra cabling require if you are not planning to connect Sub

[9800pro]

13 hours ago, Shahoff said:

Yes, when you are buying - ask shop for Skoda loom and better if they have 2 meter one and not default 1.3. No extra cabling require if you are not planning to connect Sub

Thx for the info, will contact them.

 

Question regarding the tweeters and A pillars.

Can any aftermarket tweeter be installed inside the A pillar?

Do you maybe have a leftover images of tweeter install?

 

Also, how are the factory door speakers fastened to the door? Plastic housing with rivets or screws?

 

Thx

[Shahoff]

11 hours ago, 9800pro said:

Thx for the info, will contact them.

 

Question regarding the tweeters and A pillars.

Can any aftermarket tweeter be installed inside the A pillar?

Do you maybe have a leftover images of tweeter install?

 

 

Yes, its relatively easy to remove factory tweeters and install new once with hot glue. But tweeters have to be without upfront mesh already. Something like Focal TWU 1.5 (I actually installed them  on rear doors) 

 - https://www.focal-america.com/product/twu-1-5/

 

Some of the tweeters are glued already with mesh and sometimes it is challenging to extract them , as example I used Focal TNP Tweeters from PS165V1 set ( as I stated above)  and had to spend a bit of time  to extract tweeters from glued case. The benefit of the mentioned kit are separate crossovers -so you do not need to redo wiring.

https://www.focal.com/en/car-audio/car-audio-kits-solutions/performance/expert/tweeters/tweeter-tnp

 

 

And yes , I used for now simple plastic mount for front speakers with bolts  and nuts.  But now I am thinking to 3D print  new mounts with small "umbrella" to prevent direct water access from the top to the speakers 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

On 21/11/2019 at 19:20, Shahoff said:

 

 

Hmm, its only 174mmX130mmX45mm and I do not know how you can call this size "massive"  :)
I still not decided yet , maybe I am going to mount it next to umbrella box under passenger seat. Just need to extent loom a bit.

Which "Match" you used in Octy ?

 

I used a Match5 DSP - Sorry if I offended in anyway but from your picture it appears to take up 1/4 of the flat footwell area. I was thinking the length of loom may be a problem if you had to mount it away from the infortainment.

 

The Match is much smaller at 110mm x 85 x 35 - mounted well out of the way just behind the glovebox. My issue was the loom being too long. 

[Shahoff]

9 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

I used a Match5 DSP - Sorry if I offended in anyway but from your picture it appears to take up 1/4 of the flat footwell area. I was thinking the length of loom may be a problem if you had to mount it away from the infortainment.

 

The Match is much smaller at 110mm x 85 x 35 - mounted well out of the way just behind the glovebox. My issue was the loom being too long

 

No you did not.  Everyone have its own way to quality sound

I watch on something from the mach series , but I think this boy was out of my price league  But Sub powered output is a sweet thing.

How you found quality of sound after install and tuning ?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Shahoff said:

 

No you did not.  Everyone have its own way to quality sound

I watch on something from the mach series , but I think this boy was out of my price league  But Sub powered output is a sweet thing.

How you found quality of sound after install and tuning ?

 Sound much improved with std speakers, at least I have some control over the harshness. It's much improved but there are still some tracks where particular instrument sounds I know should be there are masked but that's a limitation of the speakers and / or the way they've been installed. I'm not a fan of the tweeters or their location on Octavia.

 

It wasn't that much more expensive as the deal included the loom. Bought a sub housing specific for the estate but haven't used it yet. The long term plan is to use speakers from previous installs and find a sub that matches the power output from the amp. ( limited options with it only being 160rms / 320 max ) but that won't happen for at least another 6 months until the car is out-of-warranty. Unfortunately can't try the full amp power ( 4x60w rms) because once that function has been switched on, there's no going back - it's just a simple plug 'n' play setup right now with 4 x 35rms. That said, I'm considering selling the Octavia so may be swapping it over to our other car. 

[Shahoff]

2 hours ago, Scot5 said:

Sound much improved with std speakers, at least I have some control over the harshness. It's much improved but there are still some tracks where particular instrument sounds I know should be there are masked but that's a limitation of the speakers and / or the way they've been installed. I'm not a fan of the tweeters or their location on Octavia.

 

Thanks

 

I have second set of pillars which I did a bit damaged during removal , but I am going to 3dprint podiums for tweeters and trim this in black fabric.

[Guest]

3Dprint - it's all obove my old head   

 

In the past I've always used MDF as it dampens vibration and easy to work with. And it's cheap. Octavia completely different mounting but my SEAT is same as karoq. I've never actually taken off the A-pillar trim.  Are you saying the tweeters are afixed to the trim rather than the body work?    

[Shahoff]

1 hour ago, Scot5 said:

3Dprint - it's all obove my old head   

 

In the past I've always used MDF as it dampens vibration and easy to work with. And it's cheap. Octavia completely different mounting but my SEAT is same as karoq. I've never actually taken off the A-pillar trim.  Are you saying the tweeters are afixed to the trim rather than the body work?  

 

MDF is tend to collect moisture.   Yes , tweeters are attached to A-Pillar plastic cover 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Shahoff said:

 

MDF is tend to collect moisture.   Yes , tweeters are attached to A-Pillar plastic cover 

varnish

[9800pro]

On 22/11/2019 at 21:19, Shahoff said:

 

Yes, its relatively easy to remove factory tweeters and install new once with hot glue. But tweeters have to be without upfront mesh already. Something like Focal TWU 1.5 (I actually installed them  on rear doors) 

 - https://www.focal-america.com/product/twu-1-5/

 

Some of the tweeters are glued already with mesh and sometimes it is challenging to extract them , as example I used Focal TNP Tweeters from PS165V1 set ( as I stated above)  and had to spend a bit of time  to extract tweeters from glued case. The benefit of the mentioned kit are separate crossovers -so you do not need to redo wiring.

https://www.focal.com/en/car-audio/car-audio-kits-solutions/performance/expert/tweeters/tweeter-tnp

 

 

And yes , I used for now simple plastic mount for front speakers with bolts  and nuts.  But now I am thinking to 3D print  new mounts with small "umbrella" to prevent direct water access from the top to the speakers 

 

 

 

 

 

Thx Shahoff this really helps in the long run.

A question regarding the main unit.

Did you maybe check back connection panel for optical output?

I cant find info does Bolero unit in Karoq has optical output?

I think it should have it as Canton amp is optically connected to the main unit...

[Shahoff]

1 hour ago, 9800pro said:

Thx Shahoff this really helps in the long run.

A question regarding the main unit.

Did you maybe check back connection panel for optical output?

I cant find info does Bolero unit in Karoq has optical output?

I think it should have it as Canton amp is optically connected to the main unit...

 

 

I am not 100% sure about Bolero , but I think all MIB2.5 units ( Columbus in my case) do have MOT150 fibre loop option.  Again in my case I connected instrument panel with Columbus  to have an ability  to run satnav on dashboard.   Canton amplifier is connected ( not in my case) to the same MOST150 bus.

 

The issue with MOST150 is that I know only one MOST150 to SPDIF converter and  with coder it cost more then 1K euro 😞   - https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT860/zen-v.html

 

I am not ready yet to spend such money. Then probably no point for cheap amplifiers and speakers at all , I mean cheap when speakers are less then 1K euro

[9800pro]

1 hour ago, Shahoff said:

 

 

I am not 100% sure about Bolero , but I think all MIB2.5 units ( Columbus in my case) do have MOT150 fibre loop option.  Again in my case I connected instrument panel with Columbus  to have an ability  to run satnav on dashboard.   Canton amplifier is connected ( not in my case) to the same MOST150 bus.

 

The issue with MOST150 is that I know only one MOST150 to SPDIF converter and  with coder it cost more then 1K euro 😞   - https://navtv.com/products/NTV-KIT860/zen-v.html

 

I am not ready yet to spend such money. Then probably no point for cheap amplifiers and speakers at all , I mean cheap when speakers are less then 1K euro

 

Ufff, that's quite steep for just an digital connection.

For 1k€ you can get some serious components.

Regarding Puzu, does it come with any sort of calibration, trough mobile app or windows app or you have to tune it by ear?

[Shahoff]

24 minutes ago, 9800pro said:

Ufff, that's quite steep for just an digital connection.

For 1k€ you can get some serious components.

Regarding Puzu, does it come with any sort of calibration, trough mobile app or windows app or you have to tune it by ear?

 

That what I am talking about. Keeping in mind that skoda headuinit working very good to high resistance load , such as amp, I am not sure that I will be able to hear difference between digital or analogue connection (plus I am not a musician).

Probably some good speakers will do better job. As I told before I am 3D designing  tweeters podiums for Karoq at the moment and I am already purchased tweeters from Focal ES-K series - https://www.focal.com/sites/www.focal.fr/files/shared/catalog/document/tweeter_TKM-technical_sheet.pdf

They are from previous generation of Elite K2 Focal range.

 

Puzu , do not have MIC or anything like this as it very budget range. But at the same time , I am always have to re-calibrate for my ears after such automatic calibrations. Tried on my home Onkyo and Sony receivers and  some ( do not remember which one ) car DSP.

 

There are another two budget DSPs with similar design - Pioneer DEQ-S1000A and  Nakamichi NDS4631A. Check them out as well.  For me PUZU is fine for now.

But if I ever decide to go up (unlikely after a-pillars upgrade with new tweeters) , this will be some more advanced speakers , bi-amp for front  and something like HELIX P SIX DSP MK2. However this will probably require proper door cards redo , rewiring   and some high end speakers.  I am not such fan yet and not mentally and financially ready yet