Fuel consumption.

[Ootohere]

@croquemonsieur

I know how they drive, i has a loan of an Ibiza with 1.0tsi DSG and an Arona, and drove Mk3 Fabia with the same before driving the Octavia and Karoq with them.

The 110ps on lighter cars was as good or maybe better than the 115ps ones with heavier cars.

 

160ps Fords i was talking about was what they could get from the engines early on when using in other peoples vehicles or tuning in Fords.

That was early days.

Now Ford have their act together a bit more on Euro 6 and newer, well we would hope they have, but then many need to go hybrid because cheating WLTP & RDE2 days are over.

 

3 cylinder MINI / BMW's make sense and drive nicely,  but then 500cc per cylinder happens to work.

 

VW were supposed to do 3 cylinder 1,500 cc engines, but like everything else they do when trying to partner up with others and get their tech as they did with Suzuki, they get greedy, or found out.

Suzuki had been working with Mitsubishi on electric superchargers, 48 volts and hybrid engines.

 

Suzuki bought back their final shares the night before the Defeat Device scandal broke in the US.

Maybe Toyota lent them a few Billion that evening. (Suzuki used Toyota engines as well as Fiat and Mazda ones.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34275917

 

Suzuki knew and knows plenty about small 3 cylinder turbo or even n/a engines, and also about mild hybrids.

They had them and have a choice on the market while VW just really get to grips with it.

Edited 19 May, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[shyVRS245]

Turbo petrol engines like warm weather as well.

[Ootohere]

@shyVRS245 They like warm weather until it gets too warm and then the oil needs cooling.

Hence intercoolers, fans etc.  Its a happy medium that works, pretty like in the UK. 

No extremes of weather and you are not going to be more than 3,000 feet above sea level. 

 

Simplest thing when doing commuter runs, or journeys on the same routes to check the MPG @ 10 *oC or so ambient and 20*oC or so, 

and then even higher temps. Same car, same driver, same journey times.

Edited 19 May, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[Gerrycan]

My experience with small turbo petrols (and diesels)  is that potential consumption continues to improve as temperature rises, well to 45 deg C it does. 

If the car is moving at 60 kph or more then there is sufficient air forced through the rad to not require fan assistance.

The killer of course is that the aircon goes on as the temperature rises for driver comfort and safety. Stop/start traffic in high temps and aircon on and your consumption is awful due to high electric fan and aircon loads 

 

Humidity has an effect as well.

 

Really good returns there Shy

[shyVRS245]

10 minutes ago, Gerrycan said:

My experience with small turbo petrols (and diesels)  is that potential consumption continues to improve as temperature rises, well to 45 deg C it does. 

If the car is moving at 60 kph or more then there is sufficient air forced through the rad to not require fan assistance.

The killer of course is that the aircon goes on as the temperature rises for driver comfort and safety. Stop/start traffic in high temps and aircon on and your consumption is awful due to high electric fan and aircon loads 

 

Humidity has an effect as well.

 

Really good returns there Shy

Thanks climate control was on and set to 18C for the whole journey and driven in Sport mode as it's the manual 148bhp engine so no help being in Eco which only helps coasting with the DSG box.

[shyVRS245]

After 30 months and 3 days our 1.5TSi manual Karoq SEL has now been driven for 1,000 hours at an average of 26.2 mph (26,200 miles so far on the original Michelin tyres) and for the last 100 hours it averaged a very reasonable 49.0mpg.

[Widescreen]

Shy, after 9 months my 1.5 tsi dsg sel has done just over 2000 miles ( dont ask) and has never been on a decent journey. However in a couple of weeks it will be going up the M6 to Glasgow and back around 600 miles. I will be interested in its mpg, brim to brim because its only just loosened up. I will report back but I am hoping for around 50mpg. 

[shyVRS245]

5 minutes ago, Widescreen said:

Shy, after 9 months my 1.5 tsi dsg sel has done just over 2000 miles ( dont ask) and has never been on a decent journey. However in a couple of weeks it will be going up the M6 to Glasgow and back around 600 miles. I will be interested in its mpg, brim to brim because its only just loosened up. I will report back but I am hoping for around 50mpg. 

Got a high 57mpg on tonight's 27 mile commute, but the wife did a total of 60 miles the other day and averaged 41mpg, hence the 49mpg average.

[MASKO]

 

4 minutes ago, Widescreen said:

Shy, after 9 months my 1.5 tsi dsg sel has done just over 2000 miles ( dont ask) and has never been on a decent journey. However in a couple of weeks it will be going up the M6 to Glasgow and back around 600 miles. I will be interested in its mpg, brim to brim because its only just loosened up. I will report back but I am hoping for around 50mpg. 

I have just returned from holiday in the Peak District and covered just under 600 miles. Overall I achieved an indicative 54.1 mpg which I was very pleased with. About 450 miles was motorway there and back. I used Eco mode throughout and ACC. I would expect Widescreen might do better than me as my car is probably a lot heavier.

 

As I say, I used ACC. What impact to mpg do you think using cruise control has? Would you get better mpg using CC?  Has anyone carried out any comparison tests?

[shyVRS245]

3 minutes ago, MASKO said:

 

I have just returned from holiday in the Peak District and covered just under 600 miles. Overall I achieved an indicative 54.1 mpg which I was very pleased with. About 450 miles was motorway there and back. I used Eco mode throughout and ACC. I would expect Widescreen might do better than me as my car is probably a lot heavier.

 

As I say, I used ACC. What impact to mpg do you think using cruise control has? Would you get better mpg using CC?  Has anyone carried out any comparison tests?

Wife uses CC but I never bother unless its miles of 50mph roadworks. Aircon always on and always in Sport as our early car remembers this setting every time we start the car. Try to activate the ACT as much as I can because it works even in Sport but our manual doesn't have the coasting function of the DSG models.

[Widescreen]

Regarding cruise control, over a number of different BMWs, all 2ltr automatic deisels, I always got better fuel consumption driving manually.  Not a great fan of CC.

[MASKO]

8 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Wife uses CC but I never bother unless its miles of 50mph roadworks. Aircon always on and always in Sport as our early car remembers this setting every time we start the car. Try to activate the ACT as much as I can because it works even in Sport but our manual doesn't have the coasting function of the DSG models.

 

I have done some test driving for mpg using Aircon and not using it. In longer journeys where I averaged about 49mpg using aircon I found that for the same journey I got 52mpg when it was turned off!

[MASKO]

3 minutes ago, Widescreen said:

Regarding cruise control, over a number of different BMWs, all 2ltr automatic deisels, I always got better fuel consumption driving manually.  Not a great fan of CC.

 What reasons do you think there are for getting better fuel consumption driving manually? Or conversely worse for using CC.

[J.R.]

If you are an economy minded driver then you will always do better than cruise control, it will accelerate you up to the preset speed with a wider throttle opening than you would, it will maintain the set speed up a hill even if it has to use a wide open throttle whereas you will happily let some of the speed bleed off on a partial throttle opening.

 

Conversely when going down a long hill with either a flat road ahead or better still another hill you will allow the car to exceed your desired nominal speed on the light throttle opening to allow the inertia to carry you further up the hill the other side.

 

 

[shyVRS245]

16 minutes ago, MASKO said:

 What reasons do you think there are for getting better fuel consumption driving manually? Or conversely worse for using CC.

When you are going uphill even on a motorway the ECU will instruct the engine to fire more fuel into the engine to say maintain 70mph but controlling the speed yourself you could lift off going downhill saving fuel and gradually ease of the throttle going uphill if you have sufficient speed before you hit the climb. You should gain going downhill and lose going uphill but the electronics are not that clever they are just trying to maintain the input speed selected by the driver. Any Advanced Driving Instructor would understand the theory and put it into practice.

[Widescreen]

 I'm sure its the drivers ability to anticipate the traffic, terrain, road and weather conditions better than the CC which just stays at constant speed. However this may change as car intelligence improves as it ķnows from GPS, where you are and can therefore anticipate gradients etc.. I find when using CC  in moderate or heavy traffic I'm  constantly slowing the car down then  "resuming" so I'm  using hand input control on the steering wheel when I could just as easily use my foot on the accelerator and not use CC.

[Widescreen]

Back on the mpg topic, I made my first long journey in the karoq 1.5 SEL tsi dsg from the West Midlands to Glasgow then to Prestwick and back to Glasgow 336 miles brim to brim 46.7mpg. The M6 part of the journey was horrific, losing 90 minutes in standing, and stop/start traffic due to accidents so thanks Skoda for the stop/start and auto hold. Because of this,  its difficult to say if it was a true test of mpg. On the return from Glasgow, exactly 300 miles and the M6 shut between J22 and J23 both ways I had to divert onto the M61 then crawl around the Manchester ring road, more stop/start but on completion the trip is showing 49.7mpg so probably a brim to brim would be around 46/47 mpg again. The car has not yet done 3000 miles but overall I'm reasonably happy with the fuel economy. I did find it difficult to hold the car at a steady speed 70mpg. It would quickly vary + or -- 5mph not sure why but with 70mph being about 2000rpm I noted on the motorway, the car was happier at 2100 / 2150 rpm rather than below 2000 rpm. 

In September I am making the run to Glasgow in a BMW X1 S20i dsg and it will be interesting to see how economy compares. I was not keen on the Karoqs "eco" mode. As soon as it switched in the car would slow too quickly, not coasting far. The BMW disconnects the gearbox from the engine and can coast quite some distance. We shall see what happens.

[shyVRS245]

4 minutes ago, Widescreen said:

Back on the mpg topic, I made my first long journey in the karoq 1.5 SEL tsi dsg from the West Midlands to Glasgow then to Prestwick and back to Glasgow 336 miles brim to brim 46.7mpg. The M6 part of the journey was horrific, losing 90 minutes in standing, and stop/start traffic due to accidents so thanks Skoda for the stop/start and auto hold. Because of this,  its difficult to say if it was a true test of mpg. On the return from Glasgow, exactly 300 miles and the M6 shut between J22 and J23 both ways I had to divert onto the M61 then crawl around the Manchester ring road, more stop/start but on completion the trip is showing 49.7mpg so probably a brim to brim would be around 46/47 mpg again. The car has not yet done 3000 miles but overall I'm reasonably happy with the fuel economy. I did find it difficult to hold the car at a steady speed 70mpg. It would quickly vary + or -- 5mph not sure why but with 70mph being about 2000rpm I noted on the motorway, the car was happier at 2100 / 2150 rpm rather than below 2000 rpm. 

In September I am making the run to Glasgow in a BMW X1 S20i dsg and it will be interesting to see how economy compares. I was not keen on the Karoqs "eco" mode. As soon as it switched in the car would slow too quickly, not coasting far. The BMW disconnects the gearbox from the engine and can coast quite some distance. We shall see what happens.

I think extra weight helps with coasting. Weighed my Superb 272 on a weighbridge earlier today and it was 1,660kg with a full tank of fuel and that helps when in Eco and coasting upto roundabouts and traffic lights because it slows gradually while only ticking over at 800rpm even at 70mph on the motorway. All those small savings add up. Last tank was 535 miles at 39.99mpg not bad for a big, heavy DSG 4x4 with 360bhp.

[Gerrycan]

10 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

I think extra weight helps with coasting. Weighed my Superb 272 on a weighbridge earlier today and it was 1,660kg with a full tank of fuel and that helps when in Eco and coasting upto roundabouts and traffic lights because it slows gradually while only ticking over at 800rpm even at 70mph on the motorway. All those small savings add up. Last tank was 535 miles at 39.99mpg not bad for a big, heavy DSG 4x4 with 360bhp.

Weight is important but not the only factor, my lowly 1.4tsi Octavia estate (circa 1350kg) is easily the best coasting vehicle I have driven and the small engine provides stuff all engine braking down even moderate gradients.

I think your 1660kg weight is quite amazing. I would have expected close to 1800kg for such a big and powerful vehicle as are most other vehicles in that category.

Out of curiosity what does your engine indicate it consumes at idle, mine is around 0.5L/hour (no ancillaries on). I'd expect the 1.5tsi in the Karoq to be similar.

[shyVRS245]

2 minutes ago, Gerrycan said:

Weight is important but not the only factor, my lowly 1.4tsi Octavia estate (circa 1350kg) is easily the best coasting vehicle I have driven and the small engine provides stuff all engine braking down even moderate gradients.

I think your 1660kg weight is quite amazing. I would have expected close to 1800kg for such a big and powerful vehicle as are most other vehicles in that category.

Out of curiosity what does your engine indicate it consumes at idle, mine is around 0.5L/hour (no ancillaries on). I'd expect the 1.5tsi in the Karoq to be similar.

Boot full of work gear plus spare wheel and tool kit.

[Gerrycan]

Impressive, but the spare wheel is only the front wheel off a kid's tricycle though  

[shyVRS245]

1 minute ago, Gerrycan said:

Impressive, but the spare wheel is only the front wheel off a kid's tricycle though  

True made of steel with a 125mm wide tyre good for 80kph (50mph).

[DSL]

Did a long haul from Highlands to just south of London on Saturday.  Used the 390 miles stretch from Lesmahagow to the destination to get a handle on max mpg.  Cruising mostly at 60mph on CC, with some roadworks and the usual 15 minutes of stop/start traffic on the M25, though my stop/start stayed switched off.  Mpg was 58.4 from brim to brim.  2.0TDi 4x4 DSG.  Overall mpg is 52.44 over 1,423 miles and mixed driving.  Pretty happy with that. 👍

Edited 18 August, 2020 by DSL

[croquemonsieur]

Impressive economy Widescreen, bearing in view of the newness, the traffic conditions and it's an auto.

 

For info, start of August we resumed our monthly London - Bristol 150mile trips in our 1.0 TSI SE Technology DSG with GPF, following 5 months lockdown.  I decided (after recent comments here) not to use the Adaptive Cruise Control this time, to allow me to speed up on downhills and gradually slow down uphill on the M25 & M4.  Trip there indicated 53mpg, a record for me - previously best this direction was around 48mpg, but the return, driving in the normal direction of prevailing winds, where I've got around 53mpg recently, I was hoping for better than 55mpg, but actually slightly disappointed to get a mere indicated 50mpg.  Don't know why, maybe the wind had changed direction for a few days.

 

The return trip traffic was quieter than the busier going there, so maybe less of the being dragged along by other vehicles draughts.  The going & return averages at 51.5mpg which earlier calcs have found to be 4% optimistic, so really 49.5mpg brim to brim.  Car as always fairly loaded, but not absolutely packed out, travelling generally at 70mph but as described before, there is the long 50mph M4 section between Reading and the M25 that always benefits economy.  Car one year old, just (oil) serviced and has done 6,000miles.  As usual engine barely audible throughout the journey.