Timing Belt - Change it, or not?

[KenONeill]

9 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

If the cambelt had just been changed it is still a £2,000 car, but it will likely sell quicker, or before one that is due a cambelt. but it's unlikely to sell for more.

Well, the one that needs the belt isn't a two grand car to me; more like one and a half...

[silver1011]

If there is an identical car available that's just had it's cambelt changed, then you could be right.

 

If not, then the OP's car without a new cambelt is still worth £2K.

 

Wait until the other car sells, save the £400 cambelt cost and still sell it for £2K.

 

This is why people looking for a quick sale tend to have to take a hit on price. Those that can afford to wait often don't.

[silver1011]

18 minutes ago, Vrsburnzy said:

ok so what your saying is you’d buy a car needing a cam belt over one that doesn’t for the same money, bearing in mind they are of similar statistics and condition, and let’s be honest an octavia diesel is not a rare car so the market is full of them, it’s not like you’ll corner the market as they haven’t got a choice, even if the belt on another car is dues in 12 months you’d still buy that one over one that’s 12 months overdue.

 

if that’s what you’d do then fair enough, I know I wouldn’t.

 

No, I'd buy the car that's just had the cambelt done.

 

There isn't an unlimited supply of £2K Octavia's that have just had £400 spent on them.

 

They sell fast (hence my comment that they sell quicker, not neccessarily for more money).

 

Once it's sold there will still be buyers willing to pay £2K for an 11 year old car in need of a cambelt.

[Vrsburnzy]

I don’t believe there will be such a dip in the market that you’d be the only good choice left, currently, bearing in mind it’s Christmas time, there is around 80 1.9tdi’s for sale, just on eBay and autotrader also trying to account for duplicates, I’m not on Facebook and I know how popular the marketplace is so I have no doubts that is also busy with cars, as is gumtree which as far as I know are both free to advertise so inherently more busy with the cheaper end of the market.

 

 

[Jim-octavia]

33 minutes ago, Vrsburnzy said:

 I don’t know if you sell many of your cars privately,

Canoeing tends to be quite hard on the upholstery etc. which is one of the reasons for buying old cars, and I tend to keep cars until they really die because they generally aren't very appealling after a year of carting wet kit around.

 

The only 'car' I sold privately was my '96 Sprinter, I advertised it for 'spares only' although running, and listed all the things that needed to be fixed to put it back on the road and advised it would need collecting  on a  transporter. Fellow almost took my arm off for the £1000 I was asking (although he haggled £30 off in the end because the fuel light was on), picked it up on trade plates without fixing anything before he left and a couple of weeks later sent me some photos of it in its new home in Zimbabwe where presumably they don't much care about vehicles being roadworthy. As far as I can tell he drove it to Hull and put it on a ship the same day without doing any of the repairs, he said it was really fast...

Originally he said he was going to fix it and fill it with clothes to take to Zimbabwe, I didn't even dare ask in the end if he had driven it in an unroadworthy state with cargo, untaxed, no MOT, on trade plates...

 

Can you see why I'm not keen on private sales, even if I had a car suitable to sell on rather than just scrapping?

[silver1011]

1 hour ago, Vrsburnzy said:

I don’t believe there will be such a dip in the market that you’d be the only good choice left, currently, bearing in mind it’s Christmas time, there is around 80 1.9tdi’s for sale, just on eBay and autotrader also trying to account for duplicates.

 

The OP isn't selling now so Christmas isn't a factor.

 

Take all other variables out of the equation.

 

Two identical cars, identical price, one has had its cambelt done, the other hasn't.

 

The car with the new cambelt isn't worth £2,400, nor is the car with the old cambelt worth £1,600.

 

The car with the new cambelt sells first, the other sells after the better value car has sold, both cars sell for £2,000.

[J.R.]

The one that will sell will be the one that is the colour that the buyer wants, or for a newer vehicle the one that can sync with their i-phone

 

The majority of €2K buyers would not even know what a cam belt is let alone that it should be replaced, they might ask when it was las serviced (because someone has told them to) but they wont have any intention of having it done or DIY'ing it.

 

To many, probably the majority "recent cam belt" is up their with "lady owner", and when you are selling at that end of the market you are going to be plagued with idiots making incoherent offers be it by phone or text without even viewing the car "is £800 gonna buy it bruv? - innit!" - best response to them is to say that it may well do but not to them.

 

My one word answer to the question the OP asked is "No!"

[Ootohere]

A good place to offer a Skoda for sale and where people look is BRISKODA.

Advertise honestly what is what with the car and what you are looking for money wise and there might be interested parties or at least one buyer.

[J.R.]

And 99% will know what a cambelt is and its implications!

[labman1001]

The sticky at the top of the page says the recommended interval for 2007 onward models is every 150,000 kilometres or just over 92,000 miles no mention of time interval other than possibly every 4-5 years 

[silver1011]

Skoda UK apply a blanket time interval of 4 years for cars registered prior to September 2010, and 5 years for any car registered after that date.

 

Opinions on the ethics behind Skoda UK's time policy is varied, with plenty of debate across multiple threads.

[Ootohere]

@silver1011  which month and year did they apply that to cars registered prior to September 2010, like for a 2008 car.

Was it after September 2010? Or a few years later than 2012?

Edited 25 December, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[silver1011]

As far as I am aware it is pretty clean cut. Anything prior to the 1st September 2010 is 4 years, anything after is 5 years.

 

My July 2008 MkII Octavia Scout was 4 years, my 2011 MkII Superb was 5 years.

[Ootohere]

I understand that, i just wondered what they said the interval was in 2008, 2009 or if from the outset it was 4 years?

[silver1011]

Not too sure, all I know is it was definately 4 years in 2008.

[Mjr001]

My 2010 octavia 2 fl had it done at 85k then now the water pump or Idlers were making noises at 120k. 3 garages said it was cambelt related so had it done. Noise went straight away. 2 of the garages said my car might have had the belt only changed and not the Idlers or water pump. Lesson learnt

[~AlanVRS~]

2 minutes ago, Mjr001 said:

My 2010 octavia 2 fl had it done at 85k then now the water pump or Idlers were making noises at 120k. 3 garages said it was cambelt related so had it done. Noise went straight away. 2 of the garages said my car might have had the belt only changed and not the Idlers or water pump. Lesson learnt

It baffles me that people would do this, like opening a gearbox to change a flywheel and leaving the clutch or cylinder alone. The monies in the labour. 

I think that if I was buying a car that was say 7-8k+ I'd budget for belt etc. When I bought my pre FL it was the first thing I had done. Not worth writing off the car for the sake of it. Same with a service, any car I've ever bought (25+) I've fully serviced them within a week regardless of history. 

[Mjr001]

This was previous to me buying it. I've had the car only 2 months and paid above average due to the so say comprehensive service records with it. Now another 390 quid out of pocket but worth it

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, ~AlanVRS~ said:

It baffles me that people would do this, like opening a gearbox to change a flywheel and leaving the clutch or cylinder alone. The monies in the labour. 

 

 

I will explain why I do exactly what baffles you.

 

My labour is free and I get really angry when a new claimed O.E. (talk is cheap, as cheap as the pattern parts they are talking up) part like a tensioner bearing fails causing me to do the job again when it was highly likely that the part used by the factory would have gone on for years.

 

44 years of working on my own vehicles has caused me to be bit on the bum numerous times, yet by sensibly choosing what to replace on the balance of probabilities like a water pump with a known failure mode, I have never had a part I chose not to replace subsequently fail.

 

Real OE quality is what is supplied to the factory under a strict QA regime and aside from design and manufacturing defects these parts will never underperform aftermarket replacements. And dont go thinking that what you buy from a main dealer ârts counter of from TPS is the same as factory quality, for a current production vehicle it may well be the same part but will have come via a different distribution channel, a few years later and its pot luck.

 

My MK1 Octavia went to its grave with 500000 kms on the clock with one cam belt change, belt only (pattern part) no tensioners or pulleys, water pump etc, it did get checked frequently.

 

When I rebuild a gearbox or diff I check carefully all the bearings and replace those that are worn, when I replace a wheel bearing I do one side only unless its a known failure point (same logic for the gearbox bearings).

 

As I said my labour is free and I take a view on the complexity of the job, I dont have a vehicle lift so if I changed a DMF I would fit a new 3 part clutch assembly at the same time and vice versa, a cam belt is relatively easy and as long as I keep an eye on things and an attentive ear, investigate any noises immediately I am not likely to have any nasty surprises, I have not to date and even one or two over 40+ years is a good return on non investment.

[~AlanVRS~]

3 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

I will explain why I do exactly what baffles you.

 

My labour is free and I get really angry when a new claimed O.E. (talk is cheap, as cheap as the pattern parts they are talking up) part like a tensioner bearing fails causing me to do the job again when it was highly likely that the part used by the factory would have gone on for years.

 

44 years of working on my own vehicles has caused me to be bit on the bum numerous times, yet by sensibly choosing what to replace on the balance of probabilities like a water pump with a known failure mode, I have never had a part I chose not to replace subsequently fail.

 

Real OE quality is what is supplied to the factory under a strict QA regime and aside from design and manufacturing defects these parts will never underperform aftermarket replacements. And dont go thinking that what you buy from a main dealer ârts counter of from TPS is the same as factory quality, for a current production vehicle it may well be the same part but will have come via a different distribution channel, a few years later and its pot luck.

 

My MK1 Octavia went to its grave with 500000 kms on the clock with one cam belt change, belt only (pattern part) no tensioners or pulleys, water pump etc, it did get checked frequently.

 

When I rebuild a gearbox or diff I check carefully all the bearings and replace those that are worn, when I replace a wheel bearing I do one side only unless its a known failure point (same logic for the gearbox bearings).

 

As I said my labour is free and I take a view on the complexity of the job, I dont have a vehicle lift so if I changed a DMF I would fit a new 3 part clutch assembly at the same time and vice versa, a cam belt is relatively easy and as long as I keep an eye on things and an attentive ear, investigate any noises immediately I am not likely to have any nasty surprises, I have not to date and even one or two over 40+ years is a good return on non investment.

I see your point, kind of..

 

You actually confirmed my point at the end when you said you'd change the clutch/DMF if you opened the box up. A clutch is easy to see but a DMF? Not so much. I'd argue your point about 'Knowing' a part is going to fail etc. I've been an engineer most of my life and worked on all my own cars as much as possible and it's pretty difficult to know if say a slave cylinder in the gearbox is going to last much longer. For the sake of £20/30 you'd be mad not to change it, pattern part or not. For the length of time I have cars I don't need a part to last another 80k when the rest of the car will fall apart by then. Bearing wise you just need to look into the M32 Vauxhall box bearings to know that they can fail without much warning. I've noticed a bent clutch fork before long that would have got missed and the system wouldn't have worked for the sake of £15.

 

Plus don't get me started on OE quality! I've worked for 3 garages Skoda/Mazda/Lexus and the amount of 'New' cars that had component failure, even with only a few thousand miles on or less, was beyond belief. Maybe cars pre 2000 ish (Like your MK1) would have been much better quality, nowadays the cheapest bidder gets it and I wouldn't take the chance.

 

Without sounding condescending, it sounds like your a man of vintage but the golden age of good quality OE parts is long gone my friend. 

 

Out of interest what steed do you have in your garage now?

 

Edited 28 December, 2019 by ~AlanVRS~

[J.R.]

Slave cylinder in the gearbox, assume you mean a concentric one, a man of my vintage has yet to encounter one but I would treat it like any other clutch component in that instance, an external slave I would leave if it looked OK.

 

Not worked on a Vauxhall M32 box but if the bearings are a known regular failure then I would change them, its not just about what you can see but what you can learn, the internet and google are gamechangers for those that use the resource intelligently and can filter the wheat from the chaff.

 

Bent clutch fork? I visually inspect everything plus recall instances like yours that are recounted.

 

You failed in trying not to sound condescending, I was a Veteran V3 runner but they kindly changed the class to Masters 3

 

My MK1 was a 2001 and so reliable that for 13 years I gained no new experience of repairs and faultfinding, chnaged to a MK2 and certainly saw the difference in quality and reliability, have been following this forum attentively since then to gain as much knowledge as possible to be armed for the next problem, had to really up my game electronics wise (in the 90"s I was well up on it) and canbus comms and of course VCDS, mechanically it is probably as robust as the MK1 but has too many complicated unnecessary electronic systems.

 

I now have a 2015 Yeti, not yet registered in France so not driven yet other than on test, my gut feeling was that I should have bought older and not newer, time will tell.

 

 

 

 

[~AlanVRS~]

9 hours ago, J.R. said:

Slave cylinder in the gearbox, assume you mean a concentric one, a man of my vintage has yet to encounter one but I would treat it like any other clutch component in that instance, an external slave I would leave if it looked OK.

 

Not worked on a Vauxhall M32 box but if the bearings are a known regular failure then I would change them, its not just about what you can see but what you can learn, the internet and google are gamechangers for those that use the resource intelligently and can filter the wheat from the chaff.

 

Bent clutch fork? I visually inspect everything plus recall instances like yours that are recounted.

 

You failed in trying not to sound condescending, I was a Veteran V3 runner but they kindly changed the class to Masters 3

 

My MK1 was a 2001 and so reliable that for 13 years I gained no new experience of repairs and faultfinding, chnaged to a MK2 and certainly saw the difference in quality and reliability, have been following this forum attentively since then to gain as much knowledge as possible to be armed for the next problem, had to really up my game electronics wise (in the 90"s I was well up on it) and canbus comms and of course VCDS, mechanically it is probably as robust as the MK1 but has too many complicated unnecessary electronic systems.

 

I now have a 2015 Yeti, not yet registered in France so not driven yet other than on test, my gut feeling was that I should have bought older and not newer, time will tell.

 

 

 

 

Indeed the MK2 has a concentric one, I would, like you say, inspect each component if it was me doing the job. Although with a clutch it would be my mates garage, I would just see what parts are in there that don't cost the earth beforehand and ask him to change them. Thrust bearings for example didn't used to come in some clutch kits which I find strange but obviously to keep costs down. 

 

My MK1 VRS was a lot better than my now MK2, I sold it with 66k on the clocks and it still felt like new. 

 

You should be fine with the Yeti! Didn't see many of those in the garage back in the day other than for routine work. 

[silver1011]

15 hours ago, J.R. said:

I will explain why I do exactly what baffles you.

 

My labour is free...

 

And there lies the issue.

 

Whilst your labour is free, very few people will be undertaking any repairs or maintenance to their vehicles themselves outside of routine servicing, and even then that is becoming less common.

 

So, in the majority of cases preventative maintenance makes absolute sense.

[J.R.]

I am well aware of that, its their choice; I was responding to a specific point about being baffled as to why people would not replace a functioning part, my first 4 words said it all, no need to repeat them or tell me that I am different to everybody else, I am well aware of it, its not something to be ashamed of although living in France it certainly seems to be.

 

I was not arguing the case for doing what I do or encouraging others to do so, its their choice according to their economic situation just as it's mine with my zero value labour.

[silver1011]

Well you've confused me.

 

Alan supports the replacing of a clutch whilst replacing a flywheel, and does not understand why everyone wouldn't do the same.

 

I too support this method of preventative maintenance with its potential labour savings i.e replacing a fully functioning water pump at the same time as a cambelt.

 

Re-reading your lengthy post it reads to me as though you do too?

 

So I don't understand what your own free labour has to do with either supporting the same principle or insead offering a differing opinion?