Hello, I’ve been following this forum for a while now and I’ve found it very informative so I wondered if anyone could help me with an issue I have with my Fabia Mk2 htp 12v 70 (2010, pre facelift).

I’ve had the car for about a year; it has done 50,000 miles (i.e. approx.. 5000 miles a year) and has a full service history (the oil has been changed every year since new).  I do a low annual mileage so I’m now changing the oil every 6 months (stop start journeys and all that). I’m using a genuine Skoda filter and Quantum Longlife 3w 30 fully synthetic.

The engine runs well; it starts first time, sounds fine, and uses no oil or coolant. However, each time I start, whether it be cold first thing in the morning, or whether the engine is warm after a few seconds after turning it off, it makes a slight clattering diesel like noise for a brief second or less. I’ve had Golfs before with hydraulic tappets and I’ve never noticed this sound before, but having listened to a few allegedly ‘healthy’ Fabias and Polos starting up on YouTube this sound seems to be quite common in the this cylinder engine, so I assume there’s no cause for concern (?).

However, I also noticed that when I started up immediately after changing the oil and filter I heard an additional and rather more pronounced rattle, again only briefly for about a second, but much more distinct and suspiciously timing chain like. Going from what I’ve read I’m guessing this is rattle happens because the tensioner needs to fill with oil after the oil change. Nevertheless, hearing it was quite disconcerting so I’m wondering is this common and ok, or again something to be concerned about?  I’ve never heard it at any other time (i.e. only once briefly after the oil change), but even if it is a ‘characteristic of the engine’ it sounds so horrible I can’t see it being great for the engine, so I wondered whether there is anything that can be done about it. I can’t fill the filter holder with oil because it goes on upside down, but how about pulling the fuse from the petrol pump after an oil change so I can turn the engine over a few times to build up pressure before it fires?

Your advice would be much appreciated.

 

If you're changing that often there's no gain to be had in using the longlife oil, you'd be better off with the quantum platinum 5W40, or similar to VW grade 502 00.

How long are you leaving it to drain when changing the oil?

It's probably best to be quite quick on these engines, rather than to try to get every last drop of the old oil out. Minimise the time the tensioner is self-draining.  

 

You can also part-fill the metal canister part of the filter housing, though you risk overflow into the alternator when refitting the filter and cap assembly.

Various fuses could inhibit start-up (injectors, ignition coils, ECU supply), if you can tell me your engine code, I can look at the appropriate wiring diagram and tell you which.  Wouldn't advise fuel pump as there may well be enough residual pressure in the fuel rail to restart without the help of the pump.

 Thanks for the reply Wino. The engine code is CGPA. Looking at the fuse layout in the owners manual the injectors fuse looks another possibility, so I might try pulling that as well as (carefully) part filling the filter canister. I'll also avoid my usual practice of going off for cups of coffee while I'm waiting for the oil to drain.

 

I take take your point about the oil, but I got the Longlife cheaply so, assuming I'm not actually doing any harm, I'll use it.

Fuse 29 for the injectors.   It may throw up a fault code/light but that should clear itself after a number of normal starts thereafter.  I doubt it will at all though.

 

Yeah, carry on using up the longlife, shouldn't do any harm, just not necessary in your circumstances.

 

When/if you do change to another oil, I'd be interested to hear if you observe a different level of start-up rattle subsequently.

Edited 23 January, 20206 yr by Wino

Thanks I'll let you know.

I used to run a Fabia but with the 1.2 TSI engine, the oil filter was still upside down on top of the engine though. I started to get a rattle when starting, It wasn't consistent, some mornings it would rattle others it wouldn't and didn't seem linked to temperature either. Always wondered if the non return valve in the filter didn't always prevent the oil flowing out. It was main dealer serviced so correct oil and filter. Had done about 120k when I sold it  and still running perfectly well so though the noise was disconcerting it didn't seem to cause any damage.

Thank you,  that's reassuring. As I said,  I don't really know what to make of the very brief  mini clatter that occurs at every start up; unless I'm imagining things, I'm sure  I can hear it on a number of YouTube videos of supposedly normal cars with the htp 12v engine. It was the one-off pronounced rattle immediately after the oil change that particularly concerned me, but even if I can't get rid of it, it's nice to know it might not be doing anything catastrophic.

 

(p.s. Obviously I meant I use 5w 30 oil not 3w 30.)

OK , just to say that, as suggested by Wino, for my last oil change I used Quantum Platinum 5w 40  and poured about half a litre of oil into the filter canister before  screwing in the filter.   Much, much quieter on start up!   A good result; thank you very much.

I have a 1.2 tsi with the inverted oil filter. Does the filter have a non-drain valve? I assumed once filled the oil filter holds the oil rather like holding fluid in a pipette or straw with a finger over the end. I saw a video of oil changing on these engines and to drain the filter is showed to unscrew the filter just enough so air breaks the seal and drains any remaining oil back into the sump. Just a thought

You assume wrong, the oil is pumped through the filter while the engine is running, as soon as the engine stops it starts draining back to the sump and doesn't take long to empty.

That sounds a bit strange for an engine of this age - my Audi S4 has the similar vertical  oil filter, but a cartridge element inside a plastic case, and the plan for removing that filter is to slacken off the plastic casing a couple of turns and that allows the retained oil to drain down into the sump, meaning that that oil filter assembly, after it initially fills up after a filter change, holds at least most of its oil until it gets slackened on replacement..

 

I thought that with these chain driven camshaft  1.2TSI engines, they had a non return valve below the filter and it was when people left the old seal in the engine side when fitting a new filter, that that non return valve stayed open and caused issues.

@edbostan is right. The bottom mating face of the EA111 1.2tsi filter is fitted with a large sprung rubber washer/seal.  When the filter is screwed down this washer seals off an oblong drainage channel back to sump. When changing the filter, you unscrew the filter 2 to 3 turns, this is sufficient to lift the seal clear and allows the full of oil filter to drain back to sump. After a minute or two you can then unscrew the empty(ish) filter without it spilling oil all over the front of the engine and alternator.

 

There is a different design of top mounted upside down filter on the 1.2 htp, but the principle is the same, the filter is normally full of oil, it will not drain back until you unscrew the filter cap that holds the paper filter, but dont lift it out of the housing for a minute or two to allow it to drainall the oil down through a now open drainage channel.

 

Here's a photo of the EA111 1.2 tsi filter housing with filter removed. The smiley mouth is the drainage channel that is normally closed off by the filter sprung seal.

 

And here you can see the wide sprung seal under the filter. The central flat one not the outer seal.

Edited 21 April, 20215 yr by xman

My bad, I was thinking it was the paper element in the plastic housing like the 2.0 TDI I changed at the weekend.

Whoops, narrowly avoided a horrific Torrey Canyon style incident, good catch guys.

I am changing my filter soon for the first time. Does it automatically locate when screwing home or is there a set procedure? Wifey says I have to do it parked in the road as recently our drive has been block-paved.

Edited 22 April, 20215 yr by edbostan

No special procedure. You will probably need a filter removal wrench or tool as garages seem to like screwing them on really tight, either that or the seals expand and make the filter really tight so unless you are a gorilla, you probably won't spin it off by hand. Once you got it moving it'll go ok.  Remember to stop spinning after a couple or so turns, you may hear the oil draining, I can't remember, but it's fairly obvious. Allow a couple of minutes for the filter to drain down and then spin it off and carefully lift it out and move it to a safe storage area, there will still be some oil in the filter. Once you got the filter off, the housing will still be relatively full of old black oil, so check the large rubber seal came off with the filter, otherwise fish it out with your fingers. Best to check anyway in case some muppet didn't remove the one last time.

 

Putting the new filter back on, lightly oil all the rubber seals and  just screw it on until firmly hand tight, enough to make sure the seal is seated and the spring has compressed enough to hold the seal shut. It'll be obvious how the seal works when you look at your new filter and push it in with your fingers. Don't use the removal tool to tighten it, as you will probably overtighten it making it difficult to remove next time or in the worst case distorting the seal with all the problems that can cause.

 

Important! Cover your alternator and aux belt area with something before removing the filter, as some spillage is still possible when removing.

 

I used a Laser 3801 tool to undo these filters, mine cost about £9 from ebay iirc though there are cheaper equivalents or alternative filter removal tools.

 

 

 

Edited 22 April, 20215 yr by xman