Lane Keep Assist - how do you use yours?

[ZacDaMan72]

4 minutes ago, olderman1 said:

 

Would you care to elaborate, that sounds like tosh to me.

Go start your car and press your key fob buttons. Do they lock and unlock the car when you press them? 
 

edit: typo in my original post

Edited 11 August, 2020 by ZacDaMan72

[olderman1]

1 hour ago, ZacDaMan72 said:

Go start your car and press your key fob buttons. Do they lock and unlock the car when you press them? 
 

edit: typo in my original post

 

 

Two different statements going on here. In the one I replied to you said if the engine is off. In your reply to KennyR you said if the engine is on.

[ZacDaMan72]

1 minute ago, olderman1 said:

 

 

Two different statements going on here. In the one I replied to you said if the engine is off. In your reply to KennyR you said if the engine is on.

It was a typo. It says “edit: typo in original post” referring to my original reply to Kenny in which I said the key buttons don’t work if the engine is off, when I meant when the engine is on. Understood?

[olderman1]

8 minutes ago, ZacDaMan72 said:

It was a typo. It says “edit: typo in original post” referring to my original reply to Kenny in which I said the key buttons don’t work if the engine is off, when I meant when the engine is on. Understood?

 

Had you done the edit when I posted my question ? If so, why could I read OFF when you'd changed it to ON >

I've never been to New Zealand, is everyone as brusque as you ?

[ZacDaMan72]

6 minutes ago, olderman1 said:

 

Had you done the edit when I posted my question ? If so, why could I read OFF when you'd changed it to ON >

I've never been to New Zealand, is everyone as brusque as you ?

I edited it after you pointed out my typo - my thanks as I wouldn’t have realised it. 
 

Apologies if you feel offended...

Edited 11 August, 2020 by ZacDaMan72

[olderman1]

Quote

Apologies if you feel offended...

 

Not really offended, although generally we do tend to be a little more reserved over here.

Not a criticism, more an observation, but I've noticed both here and on the other channel that you're often brusque (read rude 😉) which could quite easily offend.

Nice of you to apologise, unexpected but appreciated 😁😁.

[MrTrilby]

3 hours ago, olderman1 said:

 

Would you care to elaborate, that sounds like tosh to me.

Blimey, that’s unpleasantly harsh. It’s pretty trivial to check for yourself if you don’t believe him: sit in your car with the engine running and try pressing the lock button on the fob. 
 

I just tried it and Zac is right - default is the fob is ignored whilst the engine is running. 

[silver1011]

Harsh, or dare I say it brusque 

[olderman1]

I feel quite certain that if ZacDaMan72 has a problem with the way I worded my question, then he's more than capable of voicing his own objections, so I'd suggest that the two of you above wind your necks in and mind your own business. Now that could rightly be described as harsh !

I believe you're not the keepers of the realm, or am I mistaken ?

[silver1011]

It's hot @olderman1 but not that hot that you have to completely lose your sense of perspective.

 

You outed ZacDaMan's accidental typo as being "tosh", a complete over reaction and unnecessary.

 

So how about you go back several posts and consider winding your own neck in and minding your own business.

[gmukharji]

I have the lane assist on my Škoda kodiaq and was not using it for a long time taking it to be autonomous driving but recently when I was out on a long drive I ventured and tried the lane keep assist along with adaptive cruise control  after awhile I started liking the feel of it it took away the strain of driving and the effort of driving gently helping me keep up the speed when the lane was clear , slowing down when traffic got fast and furious  and the best part being that one needs to learn the machine ways as we all did when we first learnt driving and we got better and better similarly this is a assist system one needs to adapt to once done we will find it very useful. Must say this makes driving a pleasure 

[silver1011]

I see this post dates back a few years, with there being some confusion over why Lane Assist defaulted to 'on' each time the engine was turned off and back on, rather than remembering the prior setting.

 

I had a 2022 Skoda Fabia courtesy car recently and noticed that the Lane Assist came back on for each journey. On my 2018 Kodiaq it can be turned off and it stays off until the driver turns it back on.

 

Anyway, the reason for the differences across models may be due to this new piece of legislation. I haven't read it in detail, what I have read suggests it only needs to be fitted rather than 'defaulting to on', but it wouldn't surprise me if this was baked into the guidance somewhere...

 

"Under new EU vehicle safety rules, all new car and van models must be equipped with emergency lane keeping systems (ELKS) from July 2022, and existing models from July 2024. The system helps drivers stay safely within their lane or the road boundary, to avoid accidents."

 

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/12503-Vehicle-safety-type-approval-of-cars-and-vans-with-emergency-lane-keeping-systems-ELKS-_en

[Yogi-Bear]

5 hours ago, silver1011 said:

"Under new EU vehicle safety rules, all new car and van models must be equipped with emergency lane keeping systems (ELKS) from July 2022, and existing models from July 2024. The system helps drivers stay safely within their lane or the road boundary, to avoid accidents."

 

a) we're not in the EU any more... although we do seem to adopt the same regulations for such stuff like this.

b) I assume 'ELKS' is simply the rumbling (or audio cue) when you get to the lane boundary... not 'adaptive lane guidance' or whatever you want to call the system that keeps you in the middle* of the lane?

[KenONeill]

42 minutes ago, Yogi-Bear said:

the system that keeps you in the middle* of the lane

* for certain values of "middle" that is.  

[silver1011]

1 hour ago, Yogi-Bear said:

 

a) we're not in the EU any more... although we do seem to adopt the same regulations for such stuff like this.

b) I assume 'ELKS' is simply the rumbling (or audio cue) when you get to the lane boundary... not 'adaptive lane guidance' or whatever you want to call the system that keeps you in the middle* of the lane?

 

The UK still implements EU legislation on harmonised vehicle standards.

 

ELKS as the European Commision refer to it is described as...

 

"The emergency lane-keeping system is a driver assisting system that should provide warning to the driver and correct the trajectory only when the driver is unintentionally

leaving the lane."

 

The use of the term of "correcting trajectory" would seemingly therefore apply to Skoda's Lane Assist.

[Yogi-Bear]

2 hours ago, silver1011 said:

The use of the term of "correcting trajectory" would seemingly therefore apply to Skoda's Lane Assist.

 

Skoda’s Lane Assist comes in two varieties - one that corrects when you get to the lane boundary, and the ‘adaptive’ version that keeps you in the middle* of the lane. I have Lane Assist turned on all the time in the assist menu… but the adaptive version only kicks in when I turn on travel assist (the lines on the symbol in the dash go from white to orange).

[silver1011]

2 hours ago, Yogi-Bear said:

 

Skoda’s Lane Assist comes in two varieties - one that corrects when you get to the lane boundary, and the ‘adaptive’ version that keeps you in the middle* of the lane. I have Lane Assist turned on all the time in the assist menu… but the adaptive version only kicks in when I turn on travel assist (the lines on the symbol in the dash go from white to orange).

 

But both adjust the steering, so regardless of which version you have, one or the other is needed to meet the legislation. Hence the reason 'Lane Assist' now initiates for each journey by default.

[Routemaster1461]

On my 2021 car the lane assist switches off. I wonder whether it would be possible for manufacturers to enable this with a simple software update' either remotely ot at the dealer, and sneak inability to disable into cars. I really hope not!

[silver1011]

10 hours ago, Routemaster1461 said:

On my 2021 car the lane assist switches off. I wonder whether it would be possible for manufacturers to enable this with a simple software update' either remotely ot at the dealer, and sneak inability to disable into cars. I really hope not!

 

Switches off until you turn it back on, or does it turn back on ahead of the next cycle of the ignition? The legislation seems to kick-in during 2022 for existing models and 2024 for all-new models so you might have just got in before things changed.

 

Edited 2 January, 2023 by silver1011

[Routemaster1461]

5 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

 

Switches off until you turn it back on, or does it turn back on ahead of the next cycle of the ignition? The legislation seems to kick-in during 2022 for existing models and 2024 for all-new models so you might have just got in before things changed.

 

 

Sorry, to clarify mine is switched off and isn't active next time I start the car. I switched it off about a year ago, and it hasn't been used since. I am just wondering if it could theoretically be modified by a software update against my will so it will not stay off.

[Avocet]

It doesn't help that the terminology differs.  LDWS (Lane Departure Warning System), is the one that beeps or vibrates the wheel if you drift out of lane without indicating.  "LKA" Lane Keep Assist" is the one that actively provides a steering input when you drift out of lane.  This is further complicated by ELKA (Emergency Lane Keep Assist), which will intervene much more vigorously.  It needs to work in conjunction with the blind spot detection system, so if you're drifting into a lane that already has a car in it, in your blind spot, it will steer you much more aggressively, away from the car you're about to hit.   However, manufacturers are free to "gold plate" the minimum legal requirements and provide systems that actually steer the car and keep you roughly in the middle of your lane (like Tesla).  It's further complicated by manufacturers making up their own acronyms rather than using the terms in the regulations.

 

As has been said, the new EU "General Safety Regulation 2" will demand LKA on "new types" of vehicle introduced from last July, and for "all registrations" from July 2024.  What this means, is that if (say) Skoda were to face-lift the Kodiaq tomorrow, then unless they change their type approval "type designation", it would not be a "new type".  It will be an existing type, first introduced in 2017.  That means new Kodiaqs rolling off the production line, don't need some of those systems yet, but will do, if registered after July 2024.  If, however, Skoda introduced a completely "new type" of vehicle tomorrow, it would have to comply right now.

Also as has been said, the UK no longer follows EU regulations.  As of 1st of July this year, a "new type" of car being introduced in GB, will need a GB National Type Approval.  (Funny enough, the scheme became "optional" on the 1st of this month)!  The "GB" scheme, is, of course, only a "photocopy" of the EU scheme, as it was on 31/12/2020, so it doesn't include any requirements for LKA / ELKA.  It will be for the British government to decide which (if any) of these requirements to adopt in the future.  However, that becomes a very hot political and economic issue, as well as a very complex one.  As GB falls further behind the EU on safety and environmental regulations, safety campaigners will, no doubt, stark kicking up a fuss about it.  On the other hand, having lost our seat at the negotiating table where these decisions are taken, if we accept these new regulations, it will be without having had a say in their content.  (Which is a pity as it was our very own TRL that was paid by the EU Commission, to do the research into the benefits and costs of these new systems)!

But there's more...

The EU regulations are in fact, a mixture of United Nations regulations (which the UK is still signed-up to) and EU regulations, (which we are not).  So if any of the United Nations content changes, we're bound to implement those anyway!

The other problem, of course, is who pays for it.  Since the early 1990s, car manufacturers have saved costs by having just one common set of regulations allowing unlimited numbers of sales in any EU Member State.  Over the next few months, they're going to be doing much of the same job twice for GB, maintaining two, near-identical sets of approval documents - one for their EU sales, and one for their GB sales.  Naturally, the GB consumers will be picking up the tab for that.  And here's the rub.  If GB diverges from the EU regulations, it won't just be two sets of paperwork, it will be two different specs of vehicle.  If the change is a simple one (like building the car with the appropriate hardware for LKS / ELKS and then simply toggling it off in the software for GB spec cars), that's clearly not going to cost much extra.  We'll just be paying for some extra hardware that we don't need.  But if the regulations diverge significantly in the future, it could start costing significantly more.  The most likely effect, (I believe) is that vehicles that don't sell in significant numbers in GB (and are high CO2 emitters), will simply just end up getting dropped from the GB model range because the number of cars doesn't justify the cost of the extra paperwork. 

Interesting times!

[Avocet]

14 hours ago, Routemaster1461 said:

 

Sorry, to clarify mine is switched off and isn't active next time I start the car. I switched it off about a year ago, and it hasn't been used since. I am just wondering if it could theoretically be modified by a software update against my will so it will not stay off.

No.  I think it's unlikely.  Legislation is rarely applied retrospectively.  Even if it was, the system on your car, might not comply with all the requirements of the regulation at the point in the future where it becomes mandatory for new cars.  Lots of manufacturers have introduced some variations of LDWS, LKA or ELKA prior to it being a legal requirement and those systems will be "close to" but not necessarily actually "compliant".

(And yes, on our 2017 car, on rural roads, it's more trouble than it's worth).

 

As an aside, by the way, has anyone tried letting it "do its thing" on an empty motorway?  I did, a while back, and it corrects the first lane departure very effectively, but tends to over-correct.  A few seconds after that, the car will then try to drift into the lane on the other side, so it corrects that too.  After a couple of these, it starts beeping at you to "take back control".  However, (and I didn't know this), if you continue to ignore it for a couple more corrections, it dabs the brakes pretty hard!  It doesn't do it for more than a fraction of a second, so causing a pile-up is unlikely, but presumably, it does it with the intention of waking the driver up!

[Yogi-Bear]

40 minutes ago, Avocet said:

As an aside, by the way, has anyone tried letting it "do its thing" on an empty motorway?  I did, a while back, and it corrects the first lane departure very effectively, but tends to over-correct.  A few seconds after that, the car will then try to drift into the lane on the other side, so it corrects that too.  After a couple of these, it starts beeping at you to "take back control".  However, (and I didn't know this), if you continue to ignore it for a couple more corrections, it dabs the brakes pretty hard!  It doesn't do it for more than a fraction of a second, so causing a pile-up is unlikely, but presumably, it does it with the intention of waking the driver up!

 

Yeah... on an empty stretch of the M5 late at night. I had pretty much the same results as you describe above in my old bear. In the new one (facelift) with travel assist, it's much better at keeping the middle of the lane, but it moans a lot more about not having hands on the wheel - even if you do, but not in the 10+2 position.

[silver1011]

10 hours ago, Avocet said:

It doesn't help that the terminology differs.  LDWS (Lane Departure Warning System), is the one that beeps or vibrates the wheel if you drift out of lane without indicating.  "LKA" Lane Keep Assist" is the one that actively provides a steering input when you drift out of lane.  This is further complicated by ELKA (Emergency Lane Keep Assist), which will intervene much more vigorously.  It needs to work in conjunction with the blind spot detection system, so if you're drifting into a lane that already has a car in it, in your blind spot, it will steer you much more aggressively, away from the car you're about to hit.   However, manufacturers are free to "gold plate" the minimum legal requirements and provide systems that actually steer the car and keep you roughly in the middle of your lane (like Tesla).  It's further complicated by manufacturers making up their own acronyms rather than using the terms in the regulations.

 

As has been said, the new EU "General Safety Regulation 2" will demand LKA on "new types" of vehicle introduced from last July, and for "all registrations" from July 2024.  What this means, is that if (say) Skoda were to face-lift the Kodiaq tomorrow, then unless they change their type approval "type designation", it would not be a "new type".  It will be an existing type, first introduced in 2017.  That means new Kodiaqs rolling off the production line, don't need some of those systems yet, but will do, if registered after July 2024.  If, however, Skoda introduced a completely "new type" of vehicle tomorrow, it would have to comply right now.

Also as has been said, the UK no longer follows EU regulations.  As of 1st of July this year, a "new type" of car being introduced in GB, will need a GB National Type Approval.  (Funny enough, the scheme became "optional" on the 1st of this month)!  The "GB" scheme, is, of course, only a "photocopy" of the EU scheme, as it was on 31/12/2020, so it doesn't include any requirements for LKA / ELKA.  It will be for the British government to decide which (if any) of these requirements to adopt in the future.  However, that becomes a very hot political and economic issue, as well as a very complex one.  As GB falls further behind the EU on safety and environmental regulations, safety campaigners will, no doubt, stark kicking up a fuss about it.  On the other hand, having lost our seat at the negotiating table where these decisions are taken, if we accept these new regulations, it will be without having had a say in their content.  (Which is a pity as it was our very own TRL that was paid by the EU Commission, to do the research into the benefits and costs of these new systems)!

But there's more...

The EU regulations are in fact, a mixture of United Nations regulations (which the UK is still signed-up to) and EU regulations, (which we are not).  So if any of the United Nations content changes, we're bound to implement those anyway!

The other problem, of course, is who pays for it.  Since the early 1990s, car manufacturers have saved costs by having just one common set of regulations allowing unlimited numbers of sales in any EU Member State.  Over the next few months, they're going to be doing much of the same job twice for GB, maintaining two, near-identical sets of approval documents - one for their EU sales, and one for their GB sales.  Naturally, the GB consumers will be picking up the tab for that.  And here's the rub.  If GB diverges from the EU regulations, it won't just be two sets of paperwork, it will be two different specs of vehicle.  If the change is a simple one (like building the car with the appropriate hardware for LKS / ELKS and then simply toggling it off in the software for GB spec cars), that's clearly not going to cost much extra.  We'll just be paying for some extra hardware that we don't need.  But if the regulations diverge significantly in the future, it could start costing significantly more.  The most likely effect, (I believe) is that vehicles that don't sell in significant numbers in GB (and are high CO2 emitters), will simply just end up getting dropped from the GB model range because the number of cars doesn't justify the cost of the extra paperwork. 

Interesting times!

 

It is worth noting that not all of those are relevant to the Kodiaq. The versions of Lane Assist fitted to the Kodiaq are all able to affect steering input, seemingly one of the main requisites of the legislation.

 

The reality is, even though we're no longer in the EU, we'll still likely benefit, or suffer from (whichever side of the fence you're on) from EU legislation on our imported vehicles for quite some time yet. The now standard Lane Assist being an example, and additionally the more recent need to now turn it off after each cycle of the ignition.

 

UK led legislation has had it's successes over the years, dim-dip headlights were a good one (in my opinion) especially when you consider where we are currently with DRL's without tail lights. I'm sure there are more examples too.

 

As you say, interesting times ahead!

[Ootohere]

VW Group are just not quite there as much as some other manufacturers are that have very good tech.

That comes from VW taking stuff inhouse and ballsing things up big style.

 

They just punt out the cars even when 'Safety tech' and just new tech is dodgy so that they get the sales and the customers / owners have to mess about and wait for them to get it sorted.

Sadly they have had a few years and first Audo then VW might get the fixes and Skoda & SEAT owners can wait, because they do as they have no Court or Government Agency taking actions against the VW Group.