No.

No think the wheel spacing is the same on all models.

 

Done mine now, lowered 35mm H&R Springs

 

Front Spacers 20mm

Rear Spacers 30mm

 

Looks loads better

On 08/07/2020 at 22:32, linni said:

Appears there is a difference.

Kodiaq has front/rear track 1575 / 1565 mm, except RS, which has 1579 / 1567.

But 4 / 2 mm do not make any difference

This is caused by the the wheels? I mean like wheels designed to have integrated spacers or different parts used for the undercarriege?

Track is always measured by the certain points on the axle. Wheels has nothing to do with it.

2 hours ago, linni said:

Track is always measured by the certain points on the axle. Wheels has nothing to do with it.

 

Fitting wheels with a different offset changes the track.

 

For example, if your wheels have an offset of ET45 and you change to wheels with an offset of ET38 then your front and rear track increases by 14mm.

 

If your wheels have an ET45 offset and you fit 10mm wheel spacers, your wheels now have an offset of ET35. Fitting 10mm wheel spacers increases your front and rear track by 20mm,

Edited 15 July, 20205 yr by Carlston

Yes, it does, but AFAIK official measurmet for track is taken from the point where the rim meets the axle.

20 minutes ago, linni said:

Yes, it does, but AFAIK official measurement for track is taken from the point where the rim meets the axle.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axle_track#:~:text=The axle track in automobiles,roadwheels on the same axle.&text=In a vehicle with two," and "rear track".

 

The measurement of a car's track is not taken by reference to the car's axle. For example, the Smart 452 Roadster uses the same axle arrangement as the Smart 450 ForTwo. However, the Roadster has a 38mm bigger rear track. The only difference causing this difference is the offset of the rear rims. The Roadster uses 19mm less offset each side, thereby giving the increased rear track of 38mm over the narrower Smart 450 ForTwo. The offset of the rear rims on a Smart 450 ForTwo is ET(-)1 whereas the offset of the rear rims on a Smart 452 Roadster is ET(-)20. Notice, that these rims use a negative offset, whereas most cars nowadays use a positive offset. Only if you fitted rims with an offset of ET0 (ie. zero offset) would the track correspond to the axle width.

Edited 15 July, 20205 yr by Carlston

That`s interesting, good to know.

My knoledge on this subject is based on old soviet standards. 

Still, I seem to be right. This Wiki page is slightly misguiding.

 

Quote

OEM track width is flange to flange or the t/a I listed would have multi track widths..

 

There is more reading. 17" vs 20" on Kodiaq, OEM wheel sizes and offsets.

https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1=215-65-17X6.5ET38&wheel2=235-45-20X7.5ET43&fcl=50mm&wcl=30mm&scl=50mm&sr=0mm

 

Scroll down and compare the figures.

Quote

Tire is 15 mm closer to suspension components

 

235 vs 215 tyre. If track width was measured from centre to centre, supposing the track is the same, on all Kodiaqs, the tyre in this case was closer to suspension by 10 mm, to keep the same track width along the whole wheel size line. But is 15 mm.

 

1 hour ago, linni said:

...the tyre in this case was closer to suspension by 10 mm...

 

How close a tyre is to the suspension has nothing to do with the track measurement. Track is measured from the centre of one tyre to the centre of the other.

 

If a car comes with different rims that have different offsets, and they often do, then the car will have multiple track measurements. However, a manufacturer will often just give one track measurement...perhaps when fitted with the entry level rims.

 

The link that you posted has nothing to do with track measurement.

Edited 15 July, 20205 yr by Carlston

Is it the centre of the rim width or the tyre tread contact point?

6 hours ago, Carlston said:

However, a manufacturer will often just give one track measurement...perhaps when fitted with the entry level rims.

 

If so, then why all Kodiaqs have one track, but RS has anothr, 1 mm wider track?

In this case producer would give the tolrance of tracks, as they do with other measurements.

 

As an engineer from flange to flange sounds more logical than from center to center.

 

 

They show to rim / tyre centre.

Edited 16 July, 20205 yr by Roottoot

Yes, but this is not exactly a technical documentation rather than some drawing for masses.

 

After all, all this doesn`t matter.

It is only a few years back that they all showed the width to the outside of tyres / rims.  As an important measurement for getting between places with kerbs like when entering parking place without raised kerbs and not suitable for rather big / wide vehicles.

Then the distance between the inside rims was important and still is. As is the widest body excluding wing mirors.

 

The easy thing for anyone wanting to check their cars track and the 'Official figures' is get out the tape measure. Check what you have.

Edited 16 July, 20205 yr by Roottoot

On 09/07/2020 at 10:51, ToffeB3 said:

No think the wheel spacing is the same on all models.

 

Done mine now, lowered 35mm H&R Springs

 

Front Spacers 20mm

Rear Spacers 30mm

 

Looks loads better

 

It looks really good. I recently (1 mth) bought a Kodiaq and I have ordered 30mm spacers to the back. 
Is 20mm enough for the front? Haven't ordered to the front yet because I wanted to see what you recommend. 

Thought of buying 22" rims ET35 first but they got sold quickly 😄 

"Track", in engineering terms, is from the centre of one wheel to the centre of the opposite one on the same axle.  To answer J.R.'s question, the centre of the tyre tread should be the centre of the wheel width too, measured between the tyre bead seating surfaces.  Yes, there might be small variations due to camber, but for all practical purposes, the two are the same.  This will only coincide with the mounting face for the wheel on the hub, where the offset is zero (ET = 0).

 

A couple of things about wheel spacers though:

1.  Already mentioned, but yes, if they're not "hub-centric", you give the wheel bolts a very hard time and run the risk of the wheels not being centred on the axles.
2.  You give your wheel bearings a harder time, because you're usually increasing the leverage on them.  Imagine a car with 1000mm wheel spacers as an exaggeration and you can see that he loads on the bearings goes up.  Whether that translates to a wheel bearing life going down from (say) 100,000 miles to 90,000 or 60,000 or whatever, depends on how much of a safety factor was in the original design, and how much of a wheel spacer has been put on.
3.  On some suspension systems (e.g. McPherson struts), it puts a bending load into the damper piston - again, reducing life and adding friction.
4.  Perhaps the most serious effect, is that you change the "scrub radius" on a steered wheel.  It's the distance between where the steering axis (kingpin axis) hits the ground and where the centre of the tyre contact patch hits the ground.  If they're both in the same place, you have "zero scrub".  Few cars are like this, because it makes them feel horrible and the steering can be very heavy unless the car is rolling.  "Positive scrub" was more common, as it's quite hard to get enough space to fit the discs and calipers in, without it.   Back in the day, a front wheel blowout often lead to a crash - sometimes fatal at higher speeds), as the steering wheel was ripped out of the driver's hands.  This is because you get a sudden drag on the side of the deflated tyre, and because of the positive scrub, the extra drag tries to turn that wheel to full lock.  Over the last few decades, manufacturers have gone to simple piston sliding calipers, and one of the reasons, is to allow the wheels to be mounted a bit further inboard.  Many cars have a small amount of "negative scrub" these days, so that when you get the sudden tyre deflation (and resulting extra drag), it actually tries to steer the wheel the OPPOSITE way round the kingpin axis, thereby counteracting the extra drag, to a large extent, so you have much less tendency for the wheel to be pulled out of your hands and can stop in a straighter line.  A similar effect occurs when braking on an icy road and one wheel hits a patch of ice.  The tendency (before negative scrub) was for the car to steer towards whichever side had the most grip.

Obviously, fitting a wheel space, stuffs-up the original steering geometry in that respect, and the car comes potentially much more dangerous.  Fortunately, few people suffer a front tyre blowout in their whole driving careers.

If anyone's curious and has access to it, the front and rear axle track of your car, in the condition in which it left the factory, is on Field 30 of the Certificate of Conformity.

15 hours ago, Avocet said:

"Track", in engineering terms, is from the centre of one wheel to the centre of the opposite one on the same axle.  To answer J.R.'s question, the centre of the tyre tread should be the centre of the wheel width too, measured between the tyre bead seating surfaces.  Yes, there might be small variations due to camber, but for all practical purposes, the two are the same.  This will only coincide with the mounting face for the wheel on the hub, where the offset is zero (ET = 0).

 

A couple of things about wheel spacers though:

1.  Already mentioned, but yes, if they're not "hub-centric", you give the wheel bolts a very hard time and run the risk of the wheels not being centred on the axles.
2.  You give your wheel bearings a harder time, because you're usually increasing the leverage on them.  Imagine a car with 1000mm wheel spacers as an exaggeration and you can see that he loads on the bearings goes up.  Whether that translates to a wheel bearing life going down from (say) 100,000 miles to 90,000 or 60,000 or whatever, depends on how much of a safety factor was in the original design, and how much of a wheel spacer has been put on.
3.  On some suspension systems (e.g. McPherson struts), it puts a bending load into the damper piston - again, reducing life and adding friction.
4.  Perhaps the most serious effect, is that you change the "scrub radius" on a steered wheel.  It's the distance between where the steering axis (kingpin axis) hits the ground and where the centre of the tyre contact patch hits the ground.  If they're both in the same place, you have "zero scrub".  Few cars are like this, because it makes them feel horrible and the steering can be very heavy unless the car is rolling.  "Positive scrub" was more common, as it's quite hard to get enough space to fit the discs and calipers in, without it.   Back in the day, a front wheel blowout often lead to a crash - sometimes fatal at higher speeds), as the steering wheel was ripped out of the driver's hands.  This is because you get a sudden drag on the side of the deflated tyre, and because of the positive scrub, the extra drag tries to turn that wheel to full lock.  Over the last few decades, manufacturers have gone to simple piston sliding calipers, and one of the reasons, is to allow the wheels to be mounted a bit further inboard.  Many cars have a small amount of "negative scrub" these days, so that when you get the sudden tyre deflation (and resulting extra drag), it actually tries to steer the wheel the OPPOSITE way round the kingpin axis, thereby counteracting the extra drag, to a large extent, so you have much less tendency for the wheel to be pulled out of your hands and can stop in a straighter line.  A similar effect occurs when braking on an icy road and one wheel hits a patch of ice.  The tendency (before negative scrub) was for the car to steer towards whichever side had the most grip.

Obviously, fitting a wheel space, stuffs-up the original steering geometry in that respect, and the car comes potentially much more dangerous.  Fortunately, few people suffer a front tyre blowout in their whole driving careers.

If anyone's curious and has access to it, the front and rear axle track of your car, in the condition in which it left the factory, is on Field 30 of the Certificate of Conformity.

 

Wow, that's what I call an answer! So in other terms, spacers should not be mounted? 🤐

2 hours ago, MalmbergA said:

 

Wow, that's what I call an answer! So in other terms, spacers should not be mounted? 🤐

That would certainly be my preference.  However, plenty of people do fit them, and they don't seem to die horribly!  As a young lad, I put some (pretty big - maybe about 30mm) spacers on my Reliant. (Don't laugh, it was a 4-wheeled one!) and I thought it looked really cool.  However, I didn't really know what I was doing, back then.

Skoda even fit wheel spacers to show cars they build.  Damn big spacers on S2000 and R5 look a likies.  They sell these cars on sometimes.  Spacers to certain max widths are allowed in some motorsports including off-road motorsports.  What matters with wheel bearings as with all components is inspection, serving and maintenance and not total muppetry when modifying vehicles.  

Edited 18 May, 20224 yr by roottoot

12 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Skoda even fit wheel spacers to show cars they build.  Damn big spacers on S2000 and R5 look a likies.  They sell these cars on sometimes.  Spacers to certain max widths are allowed in some motorsports including off-road motorsports.  What matters with wheel bearings as with all components is inspection, serving and maintenance and not total muppetry when modifying vehicles.  

What happens in motorsport is irrelevant.  It's not like it isn't hazardous anyway!  If Skoda sell them like that and the track isn't as quoted on the CoC, they're doing so illegally.  Dealers might fit them "post-registration", in which case, the dealer carries the can if anything goes wrong.  How on earth do you "service" or "maintain" a modern wheel bearing?!

You do not service a bearing, but you check and maintain your cars and check for bearing play etc to be sure to be sure, especially after reading the Fear stories from you.

 

& you are totally Correct, 

what happens in Motorsports vehicles that go on Public Roads in the UK and under MSA rules and scrutineering is well off topic and not relevant. 

 

Skoda have lots of modifications for Blue Light vehicles and your Wheel Chair Accessible vehicles have as well. 

 

Lets agree that muppets fit wheel spacers and there are as many muppets now as when you were younger.  How we are still alive and have not been jailed for killing others with our unsafe vehicles i have no idea. 

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/265505-my-skoda-fabia-s2000-built-for-street

Sadly the crazy wide spacers picture has gone from the thread.  No wonder they were like something that 2 idiots that do a car remodelling car show, one a London Geezer and another from India fit.

 

(The S2000 look a like in the line up is a 3 cylinder 1.2 with spacers but then it is just for shows)

 

 

 

Edited 18 May, 20224 yr by roottoot

2 hours ago, Avocet said:

That would certainly be my preference.  However, plenty of people do fit them, and they don't seem to die horribly!  As a young lad, I put some (pretty big - maybe about 30mm) spacers on my Reliant. (Don't laugh, it was a 4-wheeled one!) and I thought it looked really cool.  However, I didn't really know what I was doing, back then.

 

I've bought 30mm spacers. I find it quite annoying that the wheels are so far in so perhaps this will work. 
Hopefully there will be no "problem".. but you'll never know 🤪

Edited 18 May, 20224 yr by MalmbergA
changing text

2 hours ago, roottoot said:

You do not service a bearing, but you check and maintain your cars and check for bearing play etc to be sure to be sure, especially after reading the Fear stories from you.

 

& you are totally Correct, 

what happens in Motorsports vehicles that go on Public Roads in the UK and under MSA rules and scrutineering is well off topic and not relevant. 

 

Skoda have lots of modifications for Blue Light vehicles and your Wheel Chair Accessible vehicles have as well. 

 

Lets agree that muppets fit wheel spacers and there are as many muppets now as when you were younger.  How we are still alive and have not been jailed for killing others with our unsafe vehicles i have no idea. 

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/265505-my-skoda-fabia-s2000-built-for-street

Sadly the crazy wide spacers picture has gone from the thread.  No wonder they were like something that 2 idiots that do a car remodelling car show, one a London Geezer and another from India fit.

 

(The S2000 look a like in the line up is a 3 cylinder 1.2 with spacers but then it is just for shows)

 

 

 

 

 

Back in the day when cars had taper roller wheel bearings, it was worth checking for play, but I haven't come across a modern one that has developed play before it has started making a noise.  They often go for months, making a droning noise, before you can actually feel any play at all.  By the time the play is evident, the bearing is well and truly "mullered"!

Yes, we modify the vehicles for wheelchair access and other converters will also make modifications, but we have to re-approve them afterwards!  (Not that the approval authorities would take much notice of wheel spacers, because they're not a type approval subject in their own right.  If we fitted wheel spacers, they'd be more concerned with whether the wheelarches still covered the requisite amount of tyre circumference than anything else!  They might make us do another braking stability test, I guess, (particularly if we offer it with a space-saver spare), but none of the type approval tests cover a blowout situation.

Blowouts are very rare - that's why we're not all dead.  I used to d a bit with kit cars, years ago, and some of the deathtraps I used to see, just left me shaking my head in disbelief.  Of course, they weren't "safe", but the accident records were completely below the radar because there were so few of them and they did so few miles, so there didn't look to be a safety problem.  Normally, with these situations, absolutely nothing happens.  By the time the wheel bearings are worn out, it probably won't be the same owner's car anyway.  It will be someone else's problem.  It only ever becomes a big deal when there's a fatal accident and some accident investigator discovers it had wheel spacers (or the wrong wheel offset - which has the same effect) and puts into a report that they could have contributed to the accident.  That's when the trouble starts.

Not sure about the significance of the letter.  It looks like one of those "Dear government agency - I know these cars are dodgy as hell and don't conform to their type approvals, but they're only for a show anyway and we're not going to register them on your roads"  letter?

So the car modifying parts market globally is huge, the sales of wheel spacers is huge and when the EU succeed in having cars in all member countries required to be to factory spec that will be sometime far in the future.  (Even the strict countries have modified vehicles on their roads.)

 

The UK might eventually get to that day as well.   'They' have talked about it long enough.

  For now it will be just carry on as you are and the same old same old discussion on wheel spacers that has been happening since before many asking were born. 

 

Legislation is always going to change.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/499135-dft-regulatory-review-consultation-on-modernising-vehicle-standards