Favorit 136L Wont Start

[chargerbandit]

OK update... finally got a new carb base gasket, even added some sealant to be sure, cleaned out the carb etc...

Car starts up and revs for a bit if I keep giving it gas, otherwise it wont stay running, it just stumbles and dies. I tried putting the distributor into that position like @RicardoM said but in that position it wont even fire for a second.

If I turn the distributor to the left like I have now it starts up after a few pumps of gas, also revs pretty nicely but dies out soon.

 

So whats next, I havent adjusted my valves after rebuilding the head which would be the next step? Any other ideas? Possibly old gas?

 

Clip of the car running - https://streamable.com/md4tp3

Pic of my distributor position

 

[RicardoM]

The main problem is still bad timing. It's not that I say so, but the factory manual says so. All Favorit/Felicia cars on carburetor that I worked on (over 50) have the timing and the distributor positioned as explained. It is YOUR problem that you still don't understand how to position the distributor correctly.

The secondary issue, about bad idle, is 100% bad vacuum related. The carburetor is VERY sensitive to any vacuum leak. New third party gaskets are a mess. They are not perfectly flat on any side, or they are made of bad rubber, depending on gasket type. It took me a month of testing various gaskets and fastening solutions to finally find a reliable solution for getting a perfect vacuum in the intake manifold.

[chargerbandit]

Well I did it how it says in the factory manual and the result is - not starting, at all. I would appreciate a good step by step guide how to do it right.

I checked the gasket with a straight edge and the gasket was pretty flat, cleaned up all the surfaces really well and added some extra sealant where the carb meets the gasket to make sure its a tight seal. Guess I have some more testing to do.

[RicardoM]

How did you test there is no vacuum leak?

What type of gasket did you use? Black one covered in rubber? Or metallic one with cardboard gaskets?

What sealant did you use?

 

On the distributor position issue: I hope that you agree the actual position of the distributor is wrong. Failing to admit it will not encourage me to give you more advice. I will never struggle for doing good against people's will...

 

 

 

Read these topics entirely.

 

 

Edited 26 June, 2020 by RicardoM

[chargerbandit]

I'm not saying you're wrong on the distributor position, it's just very weird that none of the markings line up in that position and the car wont fire even for a bit.

I used Hondabond high temp which is fuelsafe, also used for assembling motorcycle engines, gearboxes etc. I used the black rubberised gasket, its the only one I could get my hands on, I checked it to make sure it was straight as I've heard about these failing from factory but I wont say its perfectly good after installation.

 

I was looking into some troubleshooting of the Pierburg 2E3 or in this case the Jikov, the new gasket does not have the extra hole which I believe used to be a ground so I will add an extra ground to it. I have replaced all the vacuum lines and checked for any broken gaskets. I have a 2e3 rebuild kit at home so I might just rebuild the whole thing to be sure if I don't find the cause.

 

Will be reading all these topics and hopefully find a clue somewhere.

[RicardoM]

31 minutes ago, chargerbandit said:

I was looking into some troubleshooting of the Pierburg 2E3 or in this case the Jikov, the new gasket does not have the extra hole which I believe used to be a ground so I will add an extra ground to it.

When using the metallic rubberized gasket type, it is mandatory to ground the body of the carburetor (with the existing wire in all Felicias I've seen) otherwise the electromagnetic cutout valve will not open at idle.

[RicardoM]

[chargerbandit]

@RicardoM I set the distributor exactly how you pictured it on TDC at compression stroke (removed 1st cylinder sparkplug and after it blew out air and the mark was aligned on the crank).

 

Starting it up only ends with pops which means its not right, no clue why.

 

[chargerbandit]

I set the ignition timing again I am positive its good now, set the valves to 0.2mm, added fresh fuel, cleaned out the idle cutoff valve which does work - clicks when it gets power. Car still wont start on its own, as soon as I press the gas pedal 2-3 times it fires up no problem, doesnt stay idling, does not like more than 15% throttle, clearly fuel starvation? Any ideas why its not pulling in fuel?

 

I also resealed the gasket base again just ti be sure.

[Thefeliciahacker]

Do you have fuel pressure. 

Check it

Get someone to spray gas in the carb and see if it stays idling and if it allows more throttle to be engaged. 

Report back 

[RicardoM]

On 27/06/2020 at 18:48, chargerbandit said:

Starting it up only ends with pops which means its not right, no clue why.

Silly question, but worth asking. Did you put the high voltage leads correctly on the distributor cap?

Show us a photo with distributor cap on, HV leads inserted and visible up to spark plugs.

Edited 29 June, 2020 by RicardoM

[chargerbandit]

8 hours ago, RicardoM said:

Silly question, but worth asking. Did you put the high voltage leads correctly on the distributor cap?

Show us a photo with distributor cap on, HV leads inserted and visible up to spark plugs.

Here it is, the wires on the second pic are black - white - bare - yellow and a ground on the housing nut.

 

The spark plug leads are in one of my previous posts, I put them on just like your pictures.

Edited 30 June, 2020 by chargerbandit

[chargerbandit]

21 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Do you have fuel pressure. 

Check it

Get someone to spray gas in the carb and see if it stays idling and if it allows more throttle to be engaged. 

Report back 

Had someone crank and I kept spraying brakeclean in there and it kept running no problem.

[Thefeliciahacker]

1 hour ago, chargerbandit said:

Had someone crank and I kept spraying brakeclean in there and it kept running no problem.

You have a fuel issue on your hands sir

Go through pump filter pressure regulator and lines 

[chargerbandit]

51 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

You have a fuel issue on your hands sir

Go through pump filter pressure regulator and lines 

If I take the line off the carb and crank the car fuel squirts out... fuel clearly gets into the carb even when I took it apart the float bowl was full of fuel, there must be an issue with sucking the fuel inside but I have no idea what to look for from there on. I removed the filter that is in the inlet on the carb too and it was clean. If I press the throttle I can clearly see fuel squirting in through the top jet and it also runs if I keep pressing the pedal, just doesnt add fuel on its own.

[Thefeliciahacker]

25 minutes ago, chargerbandit said:

If I take the line off the carb and crank the car fuel squirts out... fuel clearly gets into the carb even when I took it apart the float bowl was full of fuel, there must be an issue with sucking the fuel inside but I have no idea what to look for from there on. I removed the filter that is in the inlet on the carb too and it was clean. If I press the throttle I can clearly see fuel squirting in through the top jet and it also runs if I keep pressing the pedal, just doesnt add fuel on its own.

Clogged idle jet and low rpm stage 

[chargerbandit]

34 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Clogged idle jet and low rpm stage 

I removed the idle jet, idle cutoff valve, cleaned it all out and no effect. I haven't messed with carb settings it ran perfect before the engine was removed.

[RicardoM]

Now everything points to an idle fuel problem. It is a tricky one with a lot of IF's.

I will list all possible issues:

1. Vacuum leaks - everything below carburetor housing
2. Bad fuel mixture - there is a screw to adjust it
3. Clogged idle channels inside carburetor
4. Dirty air/fuel emulsifier
5. Bad fuel enrichment valve - remember that a rough idle can be a result of both too little or too much fuel

Did I mention vacuum leaks?

 

PS Here is a hint. When there is a vacuum leak, the sound of air entering the first stage of the carb is like a gurgling, choking noise. When good vacuum the sound is like a uniform kind of whistle.

Edited 30 June, 2020 by RicardoM

[chargerbandit]

IT WORKS!

 

I was absolutely sure I had done everything right up to this point so there was just one thing left... clean the carb and rebuild it. My distributor position was indeed wrong so thanks for that tip.

 

i took it all apart, brought it to work (conveniently I work at VAG/Skoda) and I cleaned the carb ultrasonically with a tool to clean fuel injectors. A ton of dirt came out and most importantly unclogged the main jet which was fully shut with dirt. Got myself a Pierburg 2e3 rebuild kit and put new membranes and gaskets on... ofcourse came up on an issue along the way, idle cutoff valve gasket fell apart totally and I did what the old time VW mechanics did... double oring and teflon tape. Put it back together, used some extra sealant on the crappy base gasket, waited some time to cure, tighten down again...

 

STARTED UP FIRST CRANK LIKE IT NEVER EVEN STOPPED.

 

Learned a lot from this, now I can easily say I can make a Favorit run, learned distributor timing, valve clearance adjusting, carb rebuilding etc. Now it just needs a few bits and its back on the road. Thanks for any help.

And PS... I bought THE LAST carb body gasket directly from Skoda so theres no more of that except aftermarket.

[RicardoM]

3 hours ago, chargerbandit said:

conveniently I work at VAG/Skoda

No help from local experts right from the beginning? They are paid to know.

Edited 2 July, 2020 by RicardoM

[chargerbandit]

6 hours ago, RicardoM said:

No help from local experts right from the beginning? They are paid to know.

None of the people that work here have knowledge in carbs and old Skodas anymore, mostly younger mechanics.  These cars have been pretty much off the road for the past 20 years here. Luckily we have the internet and a lot of documentation, found a good PDF of Pierburg 2E3 diagnostic which helped a lot, diagrams helped me figure out where fuel should be coming in.

[RicardoM]

1 hour ago, chargerbandit said:

found a good PDF of Pierburg 2E3 diagnostic which helped a lot

If it's not in German, most probably it is written by me.

[Thefeliciahacker]

4 hours ago, RicardoM said:

If it's not in German, most probably it is written by me.

you gotta love a simple, modest, man

[RicardoM]

12 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

you gotta love a simple, modest, man

I don't have to be modest when it comes to my work as a result of my passion for Skoda Felicia. Why should I?

I am the only one who has written a detailed document about cleaning, repairing, and setting the Pierburg 2E3 / Jikov 28-30 LEKR carburetor.

I am the only one who has reverse engineered the dashboard of all types of Felicia.

And so on...

[chargerbandit]

One more question - car runs perfectly, checked the alternator charging voltage and its about 12,7v at the battery, is that normal for these cars? Its a brand new battery. The battery light also comes on when the car starts but after a quick rev of the engine it goes away, my old Fav also had that but never any issues.