MR16 are 12 volt.

 

Even if the GU10's are the same the faceplate with the LED's will be at a couple of volts DC, so long as you cannot get a small finger into the live contacts then they are intrinsically safe and meet the regulations.

 

Think about the socket for the GU10 ones or worse still a standard ceiling rose or even worse a table lamp bulb holder.

 

Re the wattage, it says 3*3 watts so I guess they are 3 watt leds driven by a modulated current, most would blow very quickly if run at the rated current.

MR (multi reflector)  in MR10 = no, MR11 = yes, MR16 = yes, and is the most common reflector size, the number is the diameter in 1/8ths of an inch, so an MR16 is 2" across, the base size is what matters really (but only if it will fit the holder/base) and the usual 'MR16' are usually GU10 and are 240V with two stonkingly fat mushroom end posts, 10mm pitch and 'quarter turn' in the ceramic holder. 12V versions are GU4 base (for MR11) or GU5.3 for MR16 and are parallel pin push fit.

PARnn are also reflector lamps and again in eighths of an inch - PAR 38 being big reflector ceiling lamps of the 70's (Yes I still have several...)

13 hours ago, J.R. said:

Even if the GU10's are the same the faceplate with the LED's will be at a couple of volts DC, so long as you cannot get a small finger into the live contacts then they are intrinsically safe and meet the regulations.

But is that a couple of volts about the neutral potential or a couple of volts below the line potential?

 

One is 2V above ground and the other is 228V above ground...

Only one way to find out! - dont forget to lick your finger first.

 

I dont think your hypothesis is correct or you would have heard all about it by now, in my country there is no distinction between phase & neutral when it comes to wiring, there is a convention but nobody is even aware of it, even manufacturers like LeGrande make double sockets where the live & neutral pins are reversed on one socket.

 

Its the reason that there are no switched sockets, all MCB's are double pole and you rarely find an on/off switch on a domestic made appliance.

 

There are plenty of people on Youtube who expose dangerous electrical items, one that springs to mind is the 240v element for boiling water in a cup, someone will probably link to it, that guy spends his life looking for ways to electrocute himself, if he doesnt have the LED lights on his channel than they are not dangerous.

4 hours ago, J.R. said:

Only one way to find out! - dont forget to lick your finger first.

 

I dont think your hypothesis is correct or you would have heard all about it by now, in my country there is no distinction between phase & neutral when it comes to wiring, there is a convention but nobody is even aware of it, even manufacturers like LeGrande make double sockets where the live & neutral pins are reversed on one socket.

 

Its the reason that there are no switched sockets, all MCB's are double pole and you rarely find an on/off switch on a domestic made appliance.

 

There are plenty of people on Youtube who expose dangerous electrical items, one that springs to mind is the 240v element for boiling water in a cup, someone will probably link to it, that guy spends his life looking for ways to electrocute himself, if he doesnt have the LED lights on his channel than they are not dangerous.

In the UK the distinction between line & neutral is well observed and all wiring is supposed to be checked to ensure they are not swapped over. Indeed the standardised European wiring colours were specifically designed so that even a red/green colour blind person could tell the difference between line & neutral.

 

In the US, where I have relatives, they often have counterpoise where both are "live" but 180 degrees out of phase - both 55V from ground but with 110V between them.

Yes no neutral conductor can be any any colour other than blue, no earth conductor can be anything but yello/green, any other colour is acceptable for phase.

 

On any modern installation the colours will be respected but as soon as you plug anything into a socket like a table lamp you have a 50/50 chance of whether the contacts on the wall socket have the correct polarity and a 50/50 chance that the plug will be wired the correct way, its likely to be a 2 pin plug anyway so another 50/50.

 

Its for that reason I dont believe the surface mount LED's could have one leg at neutral (or live if reversed) potential.

 

Plus the bloke on Youtube would have made hay.

 

Attached is a photo of the wiring on a 240vac shower heater in a hôtel in Peru, Bolivia or Chilé (cant recall) where people were complaining that everytime they touched their bathroom taps they got an electric shock, it certainly gave a tingling shower!!

 

As you can see it was a brand new installation, no earth although it looks like a yellow/green conductor tucked up behind.

 

 

Edited 29 August, 20205 yr by J.R.

34 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Its for that reason I don't believe the surface mount LED's could have one leg at neutral (or live if reversed) potential.

The LEDs certainly won't have an isolating transformer built-in, so that means they will almost certainly have 1 conductor straight through and the other through a voltage reducing circuitry (possibly switched mode for efficiency). The LEDs are most likely wired in series rather than parallel (again for efficiency) so one side of one of the LEDs is almost certainly going to be directly connected to one of the incoming terminals.

 

It would be interesting to use a DVM to do a resistance check...

So just to point out why the gu10 versions with no cover are dodgy....

 

There were batches where the high voltage was on the same pcb, with either HV or a chip that did the voltage conversion exposed to fingers.

 

Others where the voltage was done on 5v drop to different segments and touching the wrong parts would give you a high voltage difference.

 

Yes none of them should have been sold or made that way, but unlike real shops some of the online markets seem to not check what they sell etc.

Edited 31 August, 20205 yr by cheezemonkhai

JR-earth leakage was a constant problem in the North West Highlands (Scotland), many years ago. As a Telecomms engineer, a common fault was bell tinkle/bell rings, but no call. Always on the old shared service or a system where ringing /signalling used earth as a return.( earth leakage used the line return to exchange to return current to exchange earth). Cure was a bucket of water poured onto the earth spike.

I used to live close to a substation and it was not uncommon to find 100vAc across the gates of my house.

But back to the cheap GU10's. As per a previous post, I got fed up with the replacement procedure of the non LED 50W bulbs in my kitchen and decided to try four Poundland LED lamps in the unit. After a fw months, we had no failures so I replaced the other four with the same- 5W LED, equivalent ( certainly in light output) to the 50W ones . I can't remember when I changed over, but I know they were in the units in June 2018 when we had a kitchen refurb, and none have failed yet.

2 hours ago, VWD said:

it was not uncommon to find 100vAc across the gates of my house.

 

That's pretty scary ...

Little current though.