I bought a Skoda Yeti (2011) fitted with a CBZB engine.

 

A recent failure of the turbo actuator has had the car in the garage, discussing the clatter on start up with my mechanic of 10 years we've both decided the chain should be changed asap, the discussion was to get genuine Skoda/VAG parts for the change over. I'm not driving the car until I've worked out what to get - that's where I've became a bit stumped.

 

I saw a kit online...

 

https://www.theskodashop.co.uk/collections/skoda-engine-parts/products/skoda-timing-chain-kit-repair-kit-timing-chain-1-2-tsi

 

...but a quick chat with the service manager of the local Skoda dealership says this code is not compatiable with the build week of my car ... this kit only covers cars built later on in the year (chain, tensioner and sprocket codes don't match coming up ending in J rather G, if I remember correctly) and his system says it's not compatiable as is pointing me to all the parts as seperate items.

 

Seems a world of information about this engine and the timing chain issues with it, getting a bit lost in my old age. Can someone point me in the direction of more to read / help me out?

Cheers!

The correct part is the one that was the upgrade required on the 1.2 TSI's up to late 2011.  The Service Manager needs to get some training.

The Skoda Dealership employees at the Service & Parts desk should know exactly the Kit as it is on the TPI for the 2011 1.2TSI's that required it.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/344005-12tsi-cam-chain-problem/page/6

 

 

 

Edited 13 September, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

If the part number is the same it should be what you want, the suffix letter is changed with any updates of the part improving it or making it cheaper to make etc.
So you want the latest suffix you can get keeping the same part number.

Chaps!

Thanks I've been held up with work + life, cars not turned a wheel since it's came back and I've finally had a chance to read that whole thread. e-Roottoot - thanks! I'm a lot more clued up but not fully for going forward.

 

Considering I've been knocked by several of the "known" issues with the Yeti in the first few months of ownership - I can't say I'm impressed at the early stages of having the car.

 

From rust on the drivers door ...I now know what zink inclusion is! = (a common problem).

LED behind the speedo needle failing ...the day I drove it home! = (a common problem).

One Way Air Valve on the breather hose breaking ...a couple of days later! = (a common problem).

Turbo actuator failure = (a non-common problem)?

I await the Loom to go in the drivers door.

 

...and now to find out about this, I'm stunned, never had so many known issues on what is to be fair a car that is relatively new from a brand who should know what they are doing using parts that have been surely in circulation in other VAG part bins.

 

So picking myself up from this, what should I do?

 

It seems from what you are saying e-roottoot is that I should fit 03F198229A as my car - I believe and will double check is a build date of early 2011. But from that thread there is also a suggestion that this could not be a complete fix and that 03F198158B can be fitted to my pre Nov 2011 and this "repair kit" has more opportunity to fix the issue?

 

I'm also looking at needing...

 

MANN-FILTER W 712/94 = Oil Filter?

03F109 210C = Revised Timing Cover? (perhaps not if I fit B?)

03F11522 = Oil Pump Chain

Castrol Edge 5-30w 504.00 = Complete Oil Change

"special grease for the camshaft and sealent for the cam cover" = ??? - User, MiniMoke

 

I'm going to check the air filter and see if mines is a "M" or "S" in the meantime. Thank god for forums like this and people like you guys who understand all this stuff. I really appreciate your help on this. Thank you.

 

On 13/09/2020 at 20:29, Urrell said:

If the part number is the same it should be what you want, the suffix letter is changed with any updates of the part improving it or making it cheaper to make etc.
So you want the latest suffix you can get keeping the same part number.

 

Awesome - okay great... Thank you!

 

I will keep that in mind when I next phone them! Cheers!

6 hours ago, pancakeroll said:

Considering I've been knocked by several of the "known" issues with the Yeti in the first few months of ownership - I can't say I'm impressed at the early stages of having the car.

 

From rust on the drivers door ...I now know what zink inclusion is! = (a common problem).

LED behind the speedo needle failing ...the day I drove it home! = (a common problem).

One Way Air Valve on the breather hose breaking ...a couple of days later! = (a common problem).

Turbo actuator failure = (a non-common problem)?

I await the Loom to go in the drivers door.

 

...and now to find out about this, I'm stunned, never had so many known issues on what is to be fair a car that is relatively new from a brand who should know what they are doing using parts that have been surely in circulation in other VAG part bins.

 

You call your car "relatively new",  but it's nine years old!  So,  "relative" to what?  Do you really expect nothing to go wrong with a car that,  to my mind, is relatively old?   Zinc inclusions aside (they really should NOT occur at any age) I'd have said that the faults you have experienced are really only to be expected in a car of that vintage,  regardless of mileage (which you don't disclose).  I'm not unsympathetic,  but I don't think any other brand or model is likely to be much better.

The issues were known when the vehicles were less than 2 years old.

The Timing Chain Tensioner issue from the date before VW got an upgrade is just that, an early production fault.

The Acctuator faults were part of Service Campaigns and TPI's and early on had replacement Turbos & Actuators being done under warranty, 

and out of warranty owners were often told they could not just get an accuator and needed the Turbo replaced.

People were being told that just in the past weeks.

 

So they were Design or Manufacturing failings and have been addresses eventually or not as the case is.

Edited 16 September, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

8 minutes ago, Zarniwoop said:

 

You call your car "relatively new",  but it's nine years old!  So,  "relative" to what?  Do you really expect nothing to go wrong with a car that,  to my mind, is relatively old?   Zinc inclusions aside (they really should NOT occur at any age) I'd have said that the faults you have experienced are really only to be expected in a car of that vintage,  regardless of mileage (which you don't disclose).  I'm not unsympathetic,  but I don't think any other brand or model is likely to be much better.

 

Let me clarify. I know saying anything about the brand on a members forum is going to have certain members rushing out to protect it. So I better take the time...

 

You call your car "relatively new",  but it's nine years old!

 

I am not saying my particular car has rolled off the production line but that the design and technology of the car is in the last 10 years - we are not dealing with Lucas stuff from the 70s. In terms of having inherent flaws baked in to "a service-free" item like the cam chain failing prematurely due to cost savings, that must have amounted to pennies, that is incredibly disappointing from a brand like Skoda and from a mother-ship like the Volkswagen Group. For it to be hidden both internally and a dealership level from owners previously is ridiculous even if the cost had been shared at 60/40 70/30 split to resolve. The games that Skoda played, from what I've read, at shifting costs for their mistakes / cost-savings to dealerships is appalling. The thought of a part like this failing in the fast lane of a motorway is ridiculous = this is an act of cost-saving beyond belief (that dies were used beyond tolerance). It's mispractice on a product which is far from cheap.

 

Also it is quite obvious the brands under Volkswagen Group, Skoda in particular do share a lot of parts from their global parts bin. Therefore issues like the above and the speedo LEDs prematurely failing and continued to be used in other model platforms, thereafter, is inexcusable and should have been rectified.

 

So,  "relative" to what?  

 

To the cars I have owned over many years, most that have never been newer that 10 years when they have reached me. Currently we own cars which I would say do not have a reputation of reliability or friendly-ness to the bank balance. An old high mileage A4 (2006) and a second generation Smart Fortwo (2002). In the six odd years of ownership, of both, only repairs I can think of have been the belts for the Audi (done as it neared 100,000) everything else tyres, wipers, brakes and lightbulbs = 28,000 miles since I got it. Smart - clutch actuator (common), windscreen wiper linkage, tyres brakes and lightbulbs = around 20,000 on the Smart since we got that. Both had been dealer serviced previously and have been serviced by an indie Merc / Audi guy I've used for over 10 years on my cars after that. They start and stop and apart from leaving the lights on one time I've never needed a tow truck to visit either of them. 

 

Over that brands being French (Peugeot / Renault), british (Rover ...and MG), Hyundai and several early Volkswagen's. I think it's fair to say I can compare older old-old cars to what I consider a more recently designed car, which should have less issues than those ones did (at their some times high miles). The Hyundai without a doubt being the best of the bunch and never asked for anything in over 40,000 miles I put on it, over the 20,000 it came with - nothing needed other than servicing and tyres / brakes - which really does say a lot.

 

My points of comparison across these failures (on the Yeti) is that seem all to be due to bad design or penny pinching not just wear or tear and were known or demonstrated to be a failure point then hidden by the Volkswagen Group and at dealership level.

 

LED backlight cluster failure - I've not had one tungsten bulb fail on any car I can think of. Choice of fix is remove the cluster and replace it for new (£££s) / drive hundreds of miles to a recommended repairer to fix or for I to remove the dash cluster, break it down and remove and replace the cobs - thankfully I will be able to do that. As I've read that's happened across the Octavia and Fabia ...and Golf range = it's not hard to see this is another product of penny pinching.

 

One Way Oil Breather Air Valve - poor design, commonly known to fail in early polos(?) as it's unsupported = why was it carried over in the same design to the Yeti and other newer cars?

 

Turbo actuator failure - One of the guys at the Skoda parts desk said it was a common problem and in some cases can stick and fracture the turbo casing = new complete turbo. My mechanic had never seen one go (electronically) like mine had and thankfully was only water ingress or just poor manufacture / early failure.

 

I've also noticed mine is missing the protection across the HT leads, which Skoda knew failed prematurely due to heat and replaced with an item (with protection) that they said was to stop rodents from chewing through them! So they didn't have to admit for a recall.

 

 regardless of mileage (which you don't disclose).

 

Don't disclose? - wow you make it sound like I'm hiding that on purpose. Miles was just over 55,000 when I collected - which I think you will agree for a nearly nine year old! car is not at all high. Considering it was run by the one family since new and serviced at a respected local independent garage which have now retired, apart from a bit of previous light parking damage on the passenger front corner, 4 matching tyres, clean interior - it had all the hall marks of a well looked after family car. In terms of the chain I was interested to see "toothed belt" ticked in 2012 in the logbook, wondering if it had been picked up and "repaired" in a recall, it's only in recent weeks have I heard it start to clatter and through these forums made aware of it. The Turbo actuator failing gave me an opportunity to ask my mechanic who confirmed it.

 

Do you really expect nothing to go wrong with a car that,  to my mind, is relatively old?

 

No, of course not! Do I expect that the failures I am experiencing now which are problems that were known about (over this model and others) at the time of manufacture and in terms of the chain months after it rolled off of the production line and for it not to be handled by a recall during the warranty period - yea that's bad. It sullys any repute of the brand and would make me consider (if I had the money) to never buy new from them.

 

To be honest - I'm not interested in going back and forth the good and bad of makes, brands, models. I could waste hours saying one thing and someone else thinking another - I just want to find what is the best steps to sort this car out now and I welcome advice on that subject and not anyone else jumping in on the subject feeling I've soiled the name of Skoda and that I'm bang out of order to yadda yadda a nine year old car. Cheers.

 

8 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

The issues were known when the vehicles were less than 2 years old.

The Timing Chain Tensioner issue from the date before VW got an upgrade is just that, an early production fault.

The Acctuator faults were part of Service Campaigns and TPI's and early on had replacement Turbos & Actuators being done under warranty, 

and out of warranty owners were often told they could not just get an accuator and needed the Turbo replaced.

People were being told that just in the past weeks.

 

So they were Design or Manufacturing failings and have been addresses eventually or not as the case is.

 

Thanks e-Roottoot

 

With no "official" recall and the stories of dealerships fobbing off owners when alerted to the clatter from that thread, I would presume that many of these have not been addressed in the wild.

 

Going forward, if I am reading what you are saying right - buy 03F198229A? - as mine is pre 11/2011 and fit. Should I buy the Revised Timing Cover and Oil Pump Chain? I read the convo about MANN-FILTER W 712/94 playing a part in resolving the issue.

 

The kit for vehicles made after 11/ 2011 03F198158B seems to offer a lot more. Has anyone figured out why these extra bits are given in that kit and why some report more success with removal of noise and problems with 03F198158B on pre 11/2011 cars?

 

I really do appreciate yours and anyone's help in finding the best solution for fixing this. Thank you and thanks for taking the time to respond to this.

 

 

 

Absolutely nowhere in my post am I attempting to protect the Skoda/VW brand or the Yeti model...... I never mention that,  or intended it.  Take it easy, buddy!  I merely suggested that its unreasonable to expect a nine year old car to have no faults,  and develop none,  irrespective of how well designed the components are/were.  As I said,  I'm not unsympathetic,  and I'm sorry I can't offer any specific ways forward for you.  But there's no reason to flame me just because I mentioned that the age of the vehicle might have something to do with the problems.  And I'm sorry if I offended you with my choice of words over the mileage.  Would you have got so angry if I'd said  "you haven't told us the mileage"?  Just trying to offer a balanced contribution to the debate,  not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers.

12 minutes ago, Zarniwoop said:

Absolutely nowhere in my post am I attempting to protect the Skoda/VW brand or the Yeti model...... I never mention that,  or intended it.  Take it easy, buddy!  I merely suggested that its unreasonable to expect a nine year old car to have no faults,  and develop none,  irrespective of how well designed the components are/were.  As I said,  I'm not unsympathetic,  and I'm sorry I can't offer any specific ways forward for you.  But there's no reason to flame me just because I mentioned that the age of the vehicle might have something to do with the problems.  And I'm sorry if I offended you with my choice of words over the mileage.  Would you have got so angry if I'd said  "you haven't told us the mileage"?  Just trying to offer a balanced contribution to the debate,  not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers.

 

I'm not fussed about what you wrote, I don't care. I'm focused on finding out info about this issue and fixing it and I wanted to clarify what I wrote, if it was not clear, and nip in the bud a possible pile on of evangelists come to tell me that I shouldn't expect a nine year old car to have issues. When that is not my point...

 

You call your car "relatively new",  but it's nine years old!  So,  "relative" to what?  

Do you really expect nothing to go wrong with a car that,  to my mind, is relatively old?

I don't think any other brand or model is likely to be much better.

 

Flame ? - I'm just answering the above. As said, I have went through many cars not seen this many baked-in faults come to attention during ownership of them, so disappointing to find it with my first Skoda.

 

You are framing me as angry / offended ??? ...I'm not. Perhaps it's all to do with the tone you read a post in. Cheers.

 

 

Afaik the newer kit can be fitted to earlier engines provided the top and bottom sprockets are changed as the chain link design is different, the sprockets are included in the kit.

 

Here is a list of parts used when the timing chain was changed on my Nov 2011 build Octavia with cbzb 1.2tsi engine. (Skoda/dealer repeatedly refused warranty over previous complaints between early 2013-2015 claiming start up rattles were normal, then on the tensioner length which came in a couple of mm under the limit on the then TPI)

 

Ignore the BEARING$ entry on the parts list as that was for a supposedly faulty wheel bearing failed by the MOT tester, in reality, when I checked it out, it seemed perfectly ok.

 

Original Top cover was used as that TPI no longer applied.



 

Oil leaking from the badly resealed sump and/or covers were free of charge.

 

 

P.S. I might add that the engine referred to above must be one of the ones before the block design change as its sump oil capacity is only 3.6 litres, a later 2013 fabia we had (1.2tsi cbza engine) had the revised design block with 3.9 litre sump oil capacity.

 

Also it had the unprotected plug leads which failed and killed the coilpak as many others do but best Skoda would do is a parts  contribution.

Edited 16 September, 20205 yr by xman

Lots of pics in this Italian thread showing what the difference in the two kits are.

Edited 16 September, 20205 yr by xman

18 hours ago, pancakeroll said:

From rust on the drivers door ...I now know what zink inclusion is! = (a common problem).

LED behind the speedo needle failing ...the day I drove it home! = (a common problem).

One Way Air Valve on the breather hose breaking ...a couple of days later! = (a common problem).

Turbo actuator failure = (a non-common problem)?

I await the Loom to go in the drivers door.

 

 

 

 

Yes zinc inclusion are fairly common, but not just on Skodas, seems to affecting other VAG cars as well now.
Speedo LED, not a very common problem at all.
One way valve, again not a very common problem.
Turbo actuator, again not a very common problem.
Door loom, only affects a limited time range of cars.

And do you really expected a 9 year old car to be perfect? 

58 minutes ago, Llanigraham said:

 

One way valve, again not a very common problem.
Turbo actuator, again not a very common problem.

And do you really expected a 9 year old car to be perfect? 

 

I beg to differ. IMO these are increasingly common problems having had both issues on our EA111 1.2 tsi engined cars. Many reports of both of these failures on Briskoda, try a search.

 

The PCV valve on 1st gen 1.2tsi (-2011) is simply poor quality plastic too thin at the point it goes into the camcover. Redesigned for post 2011 engines looking at ours.

 

The electric turbo actuator appears to be becoming a problem on Tsi engines. The one on the 2011 Octavia is still soldiering on at 145,000 miles, the later 2013 Fabia failed at almost exactly 100,000 miles/ just over 5 years and cost around £1500 to repair.

 

This trend imo is in line with a general drift down in quality with some of Skodas suppliers in recent years. Thinking about factory fitted rear brake discs and pads which seem to be made out of cheese lately particular on flagship Superbs......

 

Note some versions of the EA111/EA211 turbos fitted can't have the actuator replaced as a seperate part so a £1500 turbo replacement is required instead of £250 for the actuator alone.

 

And I don't expect any LED should fail, ever, no matter how old, unless its a cheap and nasty part or built into a poor quality PCB. They are designed not to be replaced easily if at all.

 

Lets hope the LED headlights on modern Skodas last the distance, I dread to think the cost involved in fixing one of those.

 

Edited 16 September, 20205 yr by xman

On 16/09/2020 at 13:37, xman said:

The newer kit ( 03F 198 158 B  ) can be fitted to earlier engines provided the top and bottom sprockets are changed as the chain link design is different, the sprockets are included in the kit.

 

I used the Original Top cover.

Early oil sump capacity is only 3.6 litres,  a later 2013 Fabia 1.2 TSI we owned had the revised design with 3.9 litre oil sump capacity.

 

Also it had the unprotected plug leads which failed and killed the coilpak.

* Any information, pictures and/or VAG part # for that revised oil sump ?

* Any information, pictures and/or VAG part # for those revised plug leads ?

The revised oil capacity is by virtue of redesigned oil galleries and block, you cannot upgrade your sump, they are the same.

 

Ignition leads look like this

https://www.skoda-parts.com/spare-part/03f905430c-ignition-cables-1-2tsi-skoda-23861.html

 

NGK44316 (NGK are the OE supplier)

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/ngk-7004939.html

 

 

I read earlier in this thread about the Mann oil filter W 712/94 being recommended. I looked it up and see it is advertised as having two non-return valves. How does that work? Do the Mahle filters that I have been using only have one?

It does not have any non return valves! It has a bypass valve internally as any decent oil filter would have in  case the filter gets blocked. It also has a spring loaded rubber seal arrangement that seals off a return to sump oilway in the engine side housing when the filter is screwed down. The purpose of this is that when you unscrew it by a couple of turns, the oil in the filter will drain down to sump rather than spill all over the side of the engine, the alternator and aux belt. After all the filter is fitted upside down.

 

Mann, Mahle, Bosch, others, they are all the same, just possibly different filter element design and material.

 

The return to sump gallery is the smiley mouth in the pic below.

This is sealed shut by the wide rubber O seal on the filter when screwed down.

 

 

The seal is clearly seen uppermost here. 

 

On 16/09/2020 at 21:37, xman said:

Afaik the newer kit can be fitted to earlier engines provided the top and bottom sprockets are changed as the chain link design is different, the sprockets are included in the kit.

 

Have you confirmed this to be the case with a mechanic that's done the job before? 

Looks as if I've got the timing chain issue occurring on my Fabia with the CBZB engine, but I have been told by several dealers that the 03F198158B kit is not compatible with my VIN according to their catalog, though they can't find out why that is. The build date for my car is August 2011.

Would love to find out that you are right because the kit costs $254 AUD over here in Australia, vs $249 for just the K suffix chain that I have been quoted. 

 

More details here: 

 

On 21/10/2021 at 07:49, Illiteratus said:

 

Have you confirmed this to be the case with a mechanic that's done the job before? 

 

Yes, I had the new kit fitted to an old style 2011 CBZB Octavia engine by my Skoda dealer.

 

You need to fit new top and bottom sprockets as the chain design and width is different, also the chain guides and hydaulic tensioner must be changed.

All included in the correct kit.

 

https://www.skoda-parts.com/spare-part/03f198158b-timing-set-1-2tsi-63kw-77kw-25113.html

 

Note the warning given....

 

Timing set for cars with 1.2TSI 63kW/77kW (CBZA, CBZB) engines, set includes: timing chain, guide and slide rail, 2x timing wheels, chain tensioner and mounting accessories (screws + washers) newer version.

For vehicles manufactured before 10/2011, it is necessary to replace all components contained in the set!

Thanks for the input! Got the full kit fitted and everything is back to normal.